Vita Vea DT Washington

[Steve]

Vita Vea
Positives:
Powerful.
Strong hands and can throw OL around.
Huge. Better than ideal size and uses it well.
Tremendous athlete. Moves really well for a man 40 pounds lighter.
Has some short area quickness and some speed in pursuit.
Will flash some really explosive takeoffs and when he does that he blows plays up before they start.
Will walk OL back into the QB.
Has played all along the DL, usually lining up at 34 DE.
Everyone is making this guy out to be just a NT, but I think he can play some 3 tech if he improves his game and learns to take a good first step.
Is not a big sloppy guy who can't bend his knees. Plays with good leverage which is how he survives letting the OL get in the 1st shot.

Negatives:
While he flashes an explosive start and first step, he rarely does it. Usually stays in his stance and just sheds the block instead of beating the blockers to the punch.
PLays a goofy technique that no NFL team uses. Washington asks their huge DL to sit on the line and let the OL engage them, then the DL sheds and goes after the ball. This doesn't work in the NFL, because the plays just happen way too fast. He needs to learn to use his 1st step (which he flashes), but doesn't use most of the time.
He likes to wait for the plays to develop so he can run the plays down. That is not going to be his game in the NFL. He needs to stay low and fire off.
Is slow to use his hands to shed. Waits for the OL to committ, then he sheds.
Gets a lot of plays because college QB are stupid and hold the ball too long trying to make plays that aren't there. Needs to speed his game up and make plays more quickly.
Should have improved his game to play more like an NFL player. Has had a while to do it, and just has not gotten any better with respect to what NFL teams look for in technique.

Summary
He can dominate plays when he plays with a staggered stance, fires off low and gets his hands up quickly. Has all the ability in the world and could be a great DT. It's just not clear if he doesn't want it or Washington is asking him to use a high school technique because it works better against spread offenses. In either case he is a big project and it may take a while for him to develop.

I like my 1st round picks to be better technique guys and less of a long-term project, but I can see the upside. This guy could be as good or better than Haloti Ngata, but is not anywhere near there yet.

[Fleet]

[Formula 21]

[Steve]

Where the game is going is always a tough question.

Since we play so much dime (about 50% of our snaps), they might be looking for a bigger presence at DT. Presumably, a bigger player run stuffer who can take on double teams means it would be harder for the OL to get off the line and get to Phillips and King, who are playing LB spots next to Perryman. Even in our nickel D (about 25% of our snaps), it would help keep the 2nd LB (Brown????) clean.

That being said, Hurst is the best 3 technique DL in this draft. A small, quick leverage guy who can push the middle of the pocket (3 tech) would really prevent QB's from stepping up in the pocket when Ingram and Bosa come flying off the edge. It also really changes the dynamics of play calling if there is the potential of a big loss running the ball inside. A penetrating DT is not going to necessarily stop the running game cold, but just a big loss once in a while can destroy a running team's ability to sustain drives.

Historically, the SF/Seattle style of 43/34 over/under hybrid D doesn't favor a particular body type. Seattle used a 340 lb NT type to play the same spot Bosa now plays. They used a variety of different shaped guys at DT and NT. Most of that is just a focus on being very willing to throw away the old stereotypes about what a position should be, and use whatever works, even if it means a lot of situational subbing. It also let them use guys most teams considered too different and to focus their emphasis on other positions in FA and the draft.

[blueman]

[Steve]

The thing is that you don't need a player anywhere near 1st round money to replace Liuget. You can find middle and late round draft picks who can stuff the run. They won't rush the passer well at all, but then neither does Liuget.

Payne gets some penetration and is a good run stuffer, but he is not going to get a lot of sacks unless they are the cleanup variety. He can drive the OL back and move the LOS back into the backfield, and make it hard to run the ball. We still need to find a penetrating DT to play next to Payne to push the middle of the pocket. But at least Payne is a good fit at NT role and can let the guys around him run around and make plays. Plus Payne finishes off a lot of plays, which is something that Liuget and Mebane didn't do that well last year.

Bryan and Hurst are both penetrating DT. Hurst I have already gone into some, and I would take him if he falls to us, although I don't think he will. Bryan is a guy I might take in the 2nd round, but I think he is overrated by the mock drafts (or is higher than I think he should go).

[blueman]

[chargerkdb]

Seem to be a few decent options at nose but not many for the 3T. We can get a Nose later but do we bypass some pretty good Safety prospects in the 1st round for a Liguet replacement that might not be much of an upgrade?

[blueman]

Yeah I’m on the fence with that admittedly, but I bet somebody drops we just don’t expect, makes it all easy.

[Fleet]

I think all 3 of the top DTs can play 3T. So if we brought in a guy like Poe i wouldn't discount Vea at 3T. Or vice versa. But Poe 2 gap with Hurst 3T and Bosa/Ingram is a top 3 DL in the league.

[chargerkdb]

What about Poe 2 gap, Liguet 3T, Bosa/Ingram. Then take Derwin James in 1st and Settle or even Bryan if he drops to 2nd to add to rotation? A lot depends on what goes on around us draft wise. Someone going to drop/there will be a run on a position that will skew things. BTW, Quenton Nelson somehow drops and all bets are off haha

[Fleet]

What about Poe 2 gap, Liguet 3T, Bosa/Ingram. Then take Derwin James in 1st and Settle or even Bryan if he drops to 2nd to add to rotation? A lot depends on what goes on around us draft wise. Someone going to drop/there will be a run on a position that will skew things. BTW, Quenton Nelson somehow drops and all bets are off haha

Id rather start Phillon over Liuget. And save the money. Id be fine with James as well. Especially since Boston led the team in snaps. But he will want the moon now as far as a contract goes. Losing him creates a bit of a hole if we dont plan on moving a CB to Free. I wonder if Williams could play Free. Nevertheless we have 4 really good CBs.

[Formula 21]

The more I think about Liuget, the more I think he gets too much money for too little production and he's replaceable with guys already on the roster.

Let him go and spend the money on a top FA at a different position. A LB or a S or a C would upgrade this team more than keeping him.

[blueman]

This.