What is the value... Or The advantage of the ball hog offense.

[RobH]

I realise now in retrospect that Yuba wouldn't have the willpower to let it go without a response, but honestly, whether you think it's passive aggressive or not, I wanted to inquire of Stinky if this was some elaborate setup of his to bait Yuba; it wasn't my intention to bait him myself or to carry the debate over here. And fwiw, I am refusing the be drawn into that debate in this thread. Simply citing someone's position in a debate is not an invitation to further debate.

Anyway, I apologize to the board for opening that can of worms. Wasn't my intention, but I am the guilty party, so mea maxima culpa.

Panama! Latin! You know how that affects me.

(Said in my best Gomez Adams voice.)

[Mister Hoarse]

Eww.

[Yubaking]

I don't think you really understand our offense Yuba. The reason it works is because of the short passing game. It's the high % throws that convert third downs consistently that is the key to making us move. It's not the running game that sets up the pass. The run game just gets us in manageable 3rd down plays, but without our high % passing, it falls apart regardless of how well we run.

Seattle, KC, SF, and Bal aren't really built to run our offense. First off it starts with the receivers - THE KEY to the offense (aside from Rivers obviously). You have to have guys that can get open/separation in 2 seconds. If you don't have these guys, you are worthless (see Vincent Brown). Then you really need to be able to attack at every level to force the S back and open up room underneath for the crossing patterns of the intermediate routes. We don't need to go deep every route, there just needs to be a threat. Then there's the TE - as everyone has noticed, Gates has bread and butter routes that he runs and are virtually automatic. Most of those routes are 5-7 yards and are layups for him and Rivers. There are very few TE's in the league that run them as perfectly as Gates and he's another big reason we have such a great 1st down conversion %. We simply have so many weapons right now that really fit our scheme. It's very difficult to defend them all, let alone double team any of them.

All that opens it up for the running game, which really only serves to keep us in manageable 3rd down situations. It's why the 2 yard runs don't kill us. Even if we only gain 2 and 2, that's still a 3rd and 6, which pretty much every pass catcher on our team can get on a short route. It's also a big reason why we run on 1st down so much. If we don't, we eliminate the option all by ourselves and setup long third downs.

If a team isn't consistently converting all those short 3rd downs, it doesn't matter how good of a running game they have. You can pretty much eliminate any offense that isn't in the top 5 of converting 3rd downs from being able to run our offense. Not to mention there are very few QB's that can read defenses as well as Rivers and exploit those match ups to convert all those 3rd downs.

That we have been able to run so well of late is just the cherry on top.

Of course I understand our offense. I watch every game, study stats, examine play by play, et cetera.

I am not suggesting that other teams would try to get TOP in the same fashion we do. Rather, I am discussing teams that have the potential to get time of possession whether or not they have regularly done so to this point in the season.

SEA, KC, SF and BAL are all good running teams with QBs that can make plays. In fact, KC, SF and BAL are all top 10 third down conversion percentage teams. Further, SF is 4th in TOP. KC would be a top 10 TOP team but for their acknowledged bad play calling against SF (under 24 minutes of TOP with not enough running plays). They are 12th as it is. BAL is only 15th, but you hit on the reason for that--they make big plays. Yet, the fact that they can run the ball and are a top 10 third down conversion percentage team shows that they do not have to go for big plays if they wanted to focus on TOP instead. So they have the potential to get TOP even if they aren't actually trying to do it as a general rule.

IMO, DEN and NE are not top running teams, but the QBs of those teams can move the ball with short passes in lieu of runs and potentially get TOP that way.

So these are our opponents that we have played or will play that have the best potential to cut down our TOP by getting some of their own TOP based upon what their offense has the potential to accomplish.

It does not mean that any of them would necessarily succeed in getting large TOP against us or that we would lose even if they did, but these are the opponents that seem to me to have the best ability to establish TOP against us in an effort to negate all of those positives identified in this thread that our ball hog offense produces.

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

I am think Yuba is wrong.

[TTK]

Time of possession is important but too much emphasis is being put on that. Jacksonville had ToP over the Bolts and they got their asses blown out and only scored twice. The only game the Chargers heavily dominated in ToP was against Seattle and the Jets.

Converting 3rd downs and scoring points is what matters. Other teams can try to run the ball all they want but in the end they're not going to be as successful because they don't have 17 under center.

[Steve]

TTK has it right. TOP is only important if you can take advantage of it on the scoreboard.

If KC wants to move the ball, eat the clock, but doesn't come away with TD, or even has to punt, and we can score TD and FG on every drive, then we are going to win period. It takes a lot of offensive skill for a team like KC to drive the ball the length of the field and score a TD. Between the turnovers, the penalties and the fact that they aren't very precise at QB (and lack skill players) I don't think they can pull it off.

Meanwhile, I think we can. We have done a good job of matchups outside, which means our LB and S can double us against the TE and RB. The big thing, the key for this D every week, is to just play sound fundamental football. Get good run fits and tackle. It's not rocket science, just everyone needs to play their assignments. When they are fooled or make a mistake, get back in position quickly.

I don't think KC matches up well against our offense at all. Their 2 best players are Hali and Houston, and while I love both of them, how much impact are 2 speed rushers against a QB with 2 very good OT, who likes to get rid of the ball quickly, and isn't afraid to check down? The rest of the KC D is pretty average, or even below, if you consider the secondary injuries.

If KC wants to try and run the ball, fine. We just need to keep playing our game and getting tackles until their realize their mistake. And while they are making that mistake, don't get in their way.