Donald Butler.

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

[JDA21]

he is not worth anywhere near what he is getting paid..

[Steve]

But how much of that is because we are playing with a lead and ILB don't make plays in coverage? The only game that we really could have seen much of an impact from our ILB was Az, and the whole team was playing poorly.

If we had Bowman and Willis starting for us, they would be slightly better, but still not making a huge impact, just because of the nature of way we have been playing. Ray Lewis in his prime had the same problem, that in a lot of games they would jump to a big lead and then he was just a high priced decoy as a blitzer and a not particularly fast or agile DB.

[JDA21]

I do like his team first attitude...one of the few moves Telesco has made that I'm not a fan of...that said, he is a productive player(when healthy) and team leader...

[homeless simpson]

If butler has always played well at the MO position, will they keep him there when Teo gets back? seems both Teo and butler are only so so when playing the strongside position, but both play better as MO....

[Steve]

I can understand that.

The issue is whether or not you believe that ILB is a good place to put cap space. As the NFL becomes more run oriented, do you really need a top notch ILB (not that Butler is necessarily a top notch ILB). I think someone could make a strong argument that it would be better to go with a Conner type of ILB to play on run downs, then use a Gachkar type of guy as a passing down ILB, and have those guys for about $1.5 mill a year (for both), while Butler is costing us about $3 mill this season, and he gets progressively more expensive in the coming years. The other thing is with as many decent DB as we have (thinking Marshall, Gilchrsit and Stuckey here), you can get better pass coverage if you start giving some of the LB coverage to S/nickle DB types, who still have some bulk and tackling vs the run.

A seperate issue is whether Butler is really a top caliber ILB? The past couple of years he was just on the edge of being one, but then kept not making the step up by missing the impact plays. This year, he started slow, but is at least not missing the plays now. But given the nature of the games we have played, is he the kind of player who is going to make the impact? He has been making the overall defensive calls, which is a tough thing to do, so that needs to be kept in mind to some degree. His cap #' are

From (http://overthecap.com/player/donald-butler/447/)
2014 - ~$3 m
2015 - ~$5.5 m
2016 - ~$9.3 m
2017 - ~$8.6 m
2018 - ~$9.3 m
2019 - ~$7.75 m
2020 - ~$8.4 m

Butler is definitely a better player then Gachkar, Connor and Walker, but is he that much better that he i a good use of cap space? Again NFL contracts tend to pay people exponentially, so the highest paid guy gets a lot more then the next best guy, even though their production is only slightly greater. And traditionally, it is better to be a strong team, then have just 1 or 2 really good players and a bunch of scrubs. That sort of suggests that it might be better to go somewhat cheaper and just live with a little less production. It just depends where that extra cap space is going to be used.

[thelightningwill]

Man, I don't know shit about football.
You guys lost me at MO position. Figures Te'o and the Butler would be good at modus operandi.
Or is this the Moe position? Poor, Poor Timmy Tucker, the horseshoe-throwing freak.
Or, with brevity, Te'o and Butler are good at PPTTTHTF.

[Steve]

MO=WILB spot
MIKE=SILB spot

The gap and coverage assignments are very different depending on which ILB spot you are playing. And since most LB are not very strong in coverage, they need to know where their help is, so what the players around them are doing and what the offense is doing and how the other charger players will react according.

Also, if a RB or TE motions out of the tackle box (traditional front 7 area), who is going to go out and cover align over them, regardless of the pass coverage called (man or zone). Usually, it is a MO LB, so that guy needs to be comfortable playing in space, as well as being inside.

[homeless simpson]

You guys lost me at MO position. Figures Te'o and the Butler would be good at modus operandi.
Or is this the Moe position? Poor, Poor Timmy Tucker, the horseshoe-throwing freak.

MO or Mike weakside ILB like where Donnie Edwards played....vs the SAM or strongside where Godfrey/Spikes played. neither butler nor Teo fit the Godfrey mold of ILB

[thelightningwill]

MO=WILB spot
MIKE=SILB spot

The gap and coverage assignments are very different depending on which ILB spot you are playing. And since most LB are not very strong in coverage, they need to know where their help is, so what the players around them are doing and what the offense is doing and how the other charger players will react according.

Also, if a RB or TE motions out of the tackle box (traditional front 7 area), who is going to go out and cover align over them, regardless of the pass coverage called (man or zone). Usually, it is a MO LB, so that guy needs to be comfortable playing in space, as well as being inside.

Thanks.

[Steve]

Sam is the Strong side OLB - Jarrett Johnson
Will is the weak side OLB - Freeney

These are pretty traditional terms for LB in the 34 D. Sometimes people will switch and make the ILB an S and a W name to go along with Sam and Will, but others keep it for historical reasons.

[thelightningwill]

MO or Mike weakside ILB like where Donnie Edwards played....vs the SAM or strongside where Godfrey/Spikes played. neither butler nor Teo fit the Godfrey mold of ILB

Thanks.

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