The defense & Pagano

**Stinky Wizzleteats+** · 07-01-2013, 10:21 AM

I like the defence chances this year. If the growth continues on the line and we dont tip our hand using Freeney to much. The distuption from Luigit and Reyes give me much hope.

**OhioBolt** · 07-01-2013, 10:52 AM

We should be okay if the pass rush puts a little more pressure on the QB!

1. Upfront Keyes and Liegut need to continue to show improvement which I am confident they will, if Geather the undrated rookie can provide relief in place of Thomas because big boys need breathers to be affective we will be good. Depth is a concern

2. Linebackers should be solid Butler & Te'o should be solid on run downs, outside Johnson & Freeney should be solid, Freeney needs to get us at least 8 sacks. English & DJ Smith provide depth.

3. I think if we get a little more pressure we will see an improvement. Cox>Jammer; Jammer has aged, Wright>Cason; Cason had talent, but never consistent or in the right position to make a play. Weddle is a Stud, our other safety ????? Gilchrest (unknown at the position in the PROs) and Taylor (unknown due to injury). Our nickel back should be solid even though I project the rookie Williams to be that.

**Formula 21** · 07-01-2013, 10:54 AM

We all liked the talent on our D last year. So why was the D ranked last in the red zone? And why did the pass rush suck with no originality at all? So I'm not completely sold on Pagano.

**pumpkinhead80** · 07-01-2013, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by Formula Two One View Post

We all liked the talent on our D last year. So why was the D ranked last in the red zone? And why did the pass rush suck with no originality at all? So I'm not completely sold on Pagano.

agreed

**OhioBolt** · 07-01-2013, 12:00 PM

I can't believe I did this, but I looked at games 1-8 Red Zone and players that keep showing up giving up plays leading to the redzone and opponents scoring, the main ones will not be here in 2013 Jammer, Cason, Bigby, and Corey Lynch.

Red Zone Games 1-8
SD-22 Oak-14
2nd and 6 at SD 28 (Shotgun) C.Palmer pass short left to D.McFadden to SD 11 for 17 yards (A.Bigby).
1st and 10 at SD 11 C.Palmer pass incomplete short left to R.Streater.
2nd and 10 at SD 11 C.Palmer pass incomplete short middle to D.Hagan (A.Bigby).
3rd and 15 at SD 16 (Shotgun) C.Palmer pass short middle to D.McFadden to SD 1 for 15 yards (Q.Jammer; M.Gilchrist). The Replay Assistant challenged the first down ruling, and the play was REVERSED. (Shotgun) C.Palmer pass short middle to D.McFadden to SD 2 for 14 yards (Q.Jammer, M.Gilchrist).
4th and 1 at SD 2 S.Janikowski 19 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-T.Goethel, Holder-S.Lechler.

4th and 3 at SD 26 (Shotgun) C.Palmer pass incomplete deep left to D.Hagan [M.Ingram]. PENALTY on SD-M.Ingram, Roughing the Passer, 13 yards, enforced at SD 26 - No Play.
1st and 10 at SD 13 C.Palmer pass short middle to B.Myers to SD 2 for 11 yards (A.Bigby).
1st and 2 at SD 2 (No Huddle) C.Palmer pass short right to R.Streater for 2 yards, TOUCHDOWN. 22 12
TWO-POINT CONVERSION ATTEMPT. C.Palmer pass to R.Streater is complete. ATTEMPT SUCCEEDS.

SD-38 Ten-10
2nd and 3 at SD 27 (Shotgun) J.Locker pass short right to N.Washington pushed ob at SD 11 for 16 yards (Q.Jammer).
1st and 10 at SD 11 (Shotgun) J.Locker pass incomplete short middle to K.Britt.
2nd and 10 at SD 11 (Shotgun) J.Locker pass incomplete short middle to C.Johnson (M.Ingram).
3rd and 10 at SD 11 (Shotgun) J.Locker pass short left to D.Williams to SD 5 for 6 yards (A.Cason).
4th and 4 at SD 5 R.Bironas 23 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-B.Brinkley, Holder-B.Kern. 3 17

1st and 10 at SD 32 (Shotgun) J.Locker pass short middle to J.Cook to SD 19 for 13 yards (A.Bigby).
1st and 10 at SD 19 (Shotgun) C.Johnson up the middle to SD 15 for 4 yards (K.Reyes).
2nd and 6 at SD 15 (Shotgun) J.Locker pass short left to K.Wright for 15 yards, TOUCHDOWN. 9 24
R.Bironas extra point is GOOD, Center-B.Brinkley, Holder-B.Kern. 10 24

SD-3 Atl-27
2nd and 8 at SD 35 (Shotgun) M.Ryan pass short middle to T.Gonzalez to SD 22 for 13 yards (D.Butler, A.Bigby).
1st and 10 at SD 22 M.Ryan pass short left to R.White to SD 8 for 14 yards (A.Cason).
1st and 8 at SD 8 M.Ryan pass incomplete short right.
2nd and 8 at SD 8 M.Ryan pass short middle to Jz. Rodgers for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN. 6 0
TWO-POINT CONVERSION ATTEMPT. M.Bosher rushes right end. ATTEMPT FAILS.

3rd and 4 at SD 27 M.Ryan pass short left to R.White to SD 21 for 6 yards (A.Cason).
1st and 10 at SD 21 M.Ryan pass incomplete short left to T.Gonzalez (M.Ingram).
2nd and 10 at SD 21 (Shotgun) M.Ryan pass incomplete short left to J.Jones (A.Cason).
3rd and 10 at SD 21 (Shotgun) M.Ryan pass short middle to J.Snelling to SD 9 for 12 yards (C.Lynch).
Timeout #1 by SD at 02:42.
1st and 9 at SD 9 (Shotgun) Jz. Rodgers right guard to SD 7 for 2 yards (T.Spikes, C.Thomas).
Timeout #2 by SD at 02:37.
2nd and 7 at SD 7 (Shotgun) M.Ryan pass short middle to T.Gonzalez for 7 yards, TOUCHDOWN. 12 0
M.Bryant extra point is GOOD, Center-J.Harris, Holder-M.Bosher.

1st and 10 at SD 29 M.Ryan pass short left to T.Gonzalez pushed ob at SD 16 for 13 yards (A.Bigby).
1st and 10 at SD 16 M.Ryan pass short right to J.Jones pushed ob at SD 10 for 6 yards (A.Cason).
2nd and 4 at SD 10 M.Turner right end pushed ob at SD 9 for 1 yard (T.Spikes, A.Franklin).
3rd and 3 at SD 9 M.Ryan pass short right to J.Jones for 9 yards, TOUCHDOWN. 19 0
M.Bryant extra point is GOOD, Center-J.Harris, Holder-M.Bosher. 20

1st and 10 at SD 32 M.Turner up the middle to SD 25 for 7 yards (A.Bigby).
2nd and 3 at SD 25 M.Turner left end to SD 7 for 18 yards (E.Weddle).
1st and 7 at SD 7 M.Turner right tackle for 7 yards, TOUCHDOWN. 26 3
M.Bryant extra point is GOOD, Center-J.Harris, Holder-M.Bosher. 27 3

SD-37 KC-20
1st and 10 at SD 32 J.Charles right end to SD 30 for 2 yards (D.Williams).
2nd and 8 at SD 30 (Shotgun) M.Cassel pass short right to S.Draughn to SD 12 for 18 yards (D.Williams).
1st and 10 at SD 12 M.Cassel pass incomplete to S.Maneri (M.Ingram).
2nd and 10 at SD 12 S.Draughn up the middle to SD 13 for -1 yards (M.Ingram).
3rd and 11 at SD 13 (Shotgun) M.Cassel pass short left to J.Charles for 13 yards, TOUCHDOWN. 27 12
R.Succop extra point is GOOD, Center-T.Gafford, Holder-D.Colquitt. 27 13

SD-24 NO-31
1st and 10 at NO 36 D.Brees pass short left to M.Colston ran ob at SD 24 for 40 yards (A.Cason). Pass 13, YAC 27
1st and 10 at SD 24 D.Brees pass incomplete deep left to M.Colston [K.Reyes].
2nd and 10 at SD 24 (Shotgun) D.Sproles left end to SD 19 for 5 yards (A.Cason).
Timeout #1 by NO at 07:25.
3rd and 5 at SD 19 (Shotgun) D.Brees pass deep right to M.Colston for 19 yards, TOUCHDOWN [K.Reyes]. Pass 19, YAC 0 10 13
G.Hartley extra point is GOOD, Center-J.Drescher, Holder-C.Daniel. 10 14

2nd and 6 at NO 48 D.Brees pass short left to P.Thomas to SD 16 for 36 yards (E.Weddle). Pass -2, YAC 38
1st and 10 at SD 16 (Shotgun) D.Brees pass short middle to M.Colston for 16 yards, TOUCHDOWN. Pass 15, YAC 1 24 20
G.Hartley extra point is GOOD, Center-J.Drescher, Holder-C.Daniel. 24 21

2nd and 1 at NO 43 D.Brees pass deep middle to D.Henderson to SD 16 for 41 yards (Q.Jammer). Pass 38, YAC 3
1st and 10 at SD 16 M.Ingram right guard to SD 13 for 3 yards (J.Johnson).
2nd and 7 at SD 13 D.Sproles left end to SD 14 for -1 yards (J.Johnson).
3rd and 8 at SD 14 (Shotgun) D.Brees pass short right to M.Colston to SD 5 for 9 yards (Q.Jammer). Pass 9, YAC 0
1st and 5 at SD 5 D.Brees pass short left to M.Colston for 5 yards, TOUCHDOWN. Penalty on SD-A.Cason, Defensive Pass Interference, declined. Pass 5, YAC 0 24 27
G.Hartley extra point is GOOD, Center-J.Drescher, Holder-C.Daniel. 24 28

3rd and 18 at SD 45 (Shotgun) P.Rivers pass deep middle intended for M.Floyd INTERCEPTED by R.Harper (M.Jenkins) at NO 36. R.Harper to SD 23 for 41 yards (L.Vasquez). The ball was batted into the air by #27 M. Jenkins, and caught by #41 R.Harper for the interception.
1st and 10 at SD 23 P.Thomas left end to SD 20 for 3 yards (S.Phillips).
2nd and 7 at SD 20 P.Thomas left guard to SD 19 for 1 yard (K.Reyes).
3rd and 6 at SD 19 (Shotgun) D.Brees pass short middle to M.Colston to SD 5 for 14 yards (C.Lynch). Pass 12, YAC 2
1st and 5 at SD 5 PENALTY on NO-D.Thomas, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at SD 5 - No Play.
1st and 10 at SD 10 D.Sproles left guard to SD 7 for 3 yards (D.Williams).
2nd and 7 at SD 7 D.Brees pass incomplete short right to M.Colston.
3rd and 7 at SD 7 (Shotgun) D.Brees pass incomplete short left to D.Sproles (C.Liuget).
4th and 7 at SD 7 G.Hartley 26 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-J.Drescher, Holder-C.Daniel. 24 31

SD-24 Den-35
3rd and 16 at 50 (Shotgun) P.Manning pass deep left to J.Tamme pushed ob at SD 25 for 25 yards (C.Lynch).
1st and 10 at SD 25 (Shotgun) W.McGahee up the middle to SD 16 for 9 yards (A.Bigby, C.Liuget). Penalty on SD-S.Phillips, Defensive Offside, declined.
2nd and 1 at SD 16 (Shotgun) W.McGahee up the middle to SD 14 for 2 yards (M.Ingram).
1st and 10 at SD 14 (Shotgun) P.Manning pass short left to E.Decker to SD 7 for 7 yards (A.Cason).
2nd and 3 at SD 7 P.Manning pass short right to E.Decker for 7 yards, TOUCHDOWN. 20 24
M.Prater extra point is GOOD, Center-A.Brewer, Holder-B.Colquitt.

SD-6 Clev-7
No Red Zone Scores Trent Richardson 26 yard TD Run

SD-31 KC-13
2nd and 5 at SD 33 (Shotgun) M.Cassel scrambles up the middle to SD 26 for 7 yards (D.Butler).
1st and 10 at SD 26 (Shotgun) M.Cassel pass deep left to S.Draughn ran ob at SD 6 for 20 yards (D.Williams).
1st and 6 at SD 6 (Shotgun) S.Draughn up the middle for 6 yards, TOUCHDOWN. 12 31
R.Succop extra point is GOOD, Center-T.Gafford, Holder-D.Colquitt. 13 31

**Steve** · 07-01-2013, 12:03 PM

The thing that is forgotten is that the 3rd down D, while it got better, was still not very good last year. It seemed a lot better, since it was so dreadful the year before, but we were still ranked something like 28th. I do think he deserves some break, since the outside pass rush was putrid. That is where the majority of the pressure and sacks will come from. But we have to do better rushing the QB off the edge, or none of the rest makes that much difference. The big thing I want to see is upgrading the outside pass rush, because even with Freeney, it is not going to be good enough, unless he plays back to his form from a couple years ago and English finally plays up to form.

I agree that the pass rush wasn't particularly original, but who cares about that. Pagano doesn't scheme his rush to get guys coming free and untouched (man on air). Pagano ran a lot of his blitzes to get our rush guys isolated man on man. At some point, no matter how you scheme things, someone has to make a play and beat someone. And when you watch teams that scheme things up and get the one guy rushing against air, they have a free man somewhere, and bad things happen if you do that too often. Blitzes which try to matchup man vs man (coverage and blocking) the D isn't being outnumbered anywhere, so they are safer.

As far as the goalline, that is where I think Teo can really help. It is not a coincident that ND had one of the top ranked goalline units in college football last year. That and he is incredibly quick, and he replaces Spikes who wasn't.

I'm not sold on Pagano either, but he did enough stuff to make me think he could be the answer.

**Steve** · 07-01-2013, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by OhioBolt View Post

I can't believe I did this, but I looked at games 1-8 Red Zone and players that keep showing up giving up plays leading to the redzone and opponents scoring, the main ones will not be here in 2013 Jammer, Cason, Bigby, and Corey Lynch.
[U]

But are they giving it up because we could get any pressure on the QB in the red zone or because they made a mistake? Especially for S, they often make the tackle if a CB or LB makes a mistake, in which case it is a potential TD saving play, not a mistake to make a tackle. And usually when a DB makes a mistake, it is a TD, and there is no player recorded for a TD, since no tackle gets made.

**Beerman** · 07-01-2013, 12:32 PM

I like our starting 11. We have no depth. Obviously serious injuries will hurt. That being said, I think we upgraded both the secondary and LB corps.

**Charged up** · 07-01-2013, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by Formula Two One View Post

We all liked the talent on our D last year. So why was the D ranked last in the red zone? And why did the pass rush suck with no originality at all? So I'm not completely sold on Pagano.

That is pretty much exactly why I started this thread.

**OhioBolt** · 07-01-2013, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by Steve View Post

But are they giving it up because we could get any pressure on the QB in the red zone or because they made a mistake? Especially for S, they often make the tackle if a CB or LB makes a mistake, in which case it is a potential TD saving play, not a mistake to make a tackle. And usually when a DB makes a mistake, it is a TD, and there is no player recorded for a TD, since no tackle gets made.

Good point about the Safety, but if he is in position to make play whether it is a tackle, or deflection or he is covering his area so good the QB is going another direction. Look how many times Bigby name shows up compared to Weddle, and often Bigby was late on his assignments. I agreee about the pressuer or lack of pressure, but we were not playing man to man so how do you give up big plays like Jammer and Cason did. Jammer father time caught up with him, and Cason just not having good awarness. Good CB's can help a not so great pass rush.

**oneinchpunch** · 07-01-2013, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by Beerman View Post

I like our starting 11. We have no depth. Obviously serious injuries will hurt. That being said, I think we upgraded both the secondary and LB corps.

I think it's a downgrade for the secondary and DL. With no depth Pagano is going to have to get creative which wasn't his strong suit last year.

The defense & Pagano

The defense & Pagano

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