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  • Steve
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    • Jun 2013
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    • South Carolina
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    #25
    Whether he has a chance or not, the Chargers need to stop relying on college teams trying to develop OL. They just aren't doing it, and we need to find a way to do it ourselves. We could him as a test case for how we will train and develop our own OL.

    He has the physical measurables to be an elite OT, someone just has to teach him the fundamentals and then we can see if he has a chance. If it's not him, then we need to start looking around for sloppy college players or other undrafted players. If we have to grow and develop our own, there is no sense paying top dollar for it. Besides, if we use top draft picks, we can keep using more conventional methods.= on those prospects.

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    • Budsman
      Registered Charger Fan
      • May 2017
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      #26
      Originally posted by Steve View Post
      Whether he has a chance or not, the Chargers need to stop relying on college teams trying to develop OL. They just aren't doing it, and we need to find a way to do it ourselves. We could him as a test case for how we will train and develop our own OL.

      He has the physical measurables to be an elite OT, someone just has to teach him the fundamentals and then we can see if he has a chance. If it's not him, then we need to start looking around for sloppy college players or other undrafted players. If we have to grow and develop our own, there is no sense paying top dollar for it. Besides, if we use top draft picks, we can keep using more conventional methods.= on those prospects.

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      • Steve
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        • Jun 2013
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        #27
        His rugby background gives him no skill set he can fall back on. NFL LB will eat him alive until he learns to block properly, and that is the same technique as an OL and a TE. I don't see how you think that is any faster. If anything, because we use TE in so many ways, it might actually slow him down. He has to learn to block first and that is the same.

        If it is too long to wait, it is too long for any position. I disagree, but that is because I think it is hard to break all the bad mechanical habits you incorrectly learned. Learning new mechanics when you have bad ones to replace is tough. Ask anyone who has been forced to learn a new golf swing after doing it badly for years. This kid is a blank piece of clay, ready to be molded. He is tough and physical. If he is like any of the other decent rugby guy, he loves the contact part of the sport and he will work hard. I know a very few rugby guys on some club teams over the years who weren't, but that is one of the things I like about rugby guys is there aren't too many primadonnas in the crowd.

        Gates and Tim Brewster (TE coach) credit Gates rapid development to the fact he had everything to learn from the beginning. He didn't have bad habits to overcome. College OL have so many bad habits these days. They are just not working on the fundamentals like they used to. I am excited about a new guy just because he could be the next Gates. Dielman was similar. He had no bussiness being on the field his rookie year. He was terrible. But it was like someone threw on a light switch the next season. We played the PS game in Australia or something and it was like who the hell is this guy. He simply abused everyone he faced all game, including the starters from the other team. But he developed in one year after being a DL in Indiana.

        For it to work, we would have to dedicate an entire roster spot to the guy, and not play him at all this year. If you let him play vs someone else in PS, you run the risk of him being poached off the PS. Then he comes into camp next year and you see what you really have.

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        • Budsman
          Registered Charger Fan
          • May 2017
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          #28
          Originally posted by Steve View Post
          His rugby background gives him no skill set he can fall back on. NFL LB will eat him alive until he learns to block properly, and that is the same technique as an OL and a TE. I don't see how you think that is any faster. If anything, because we use TE in so many ways, it might actually slow him down. He has to learn to block first and that is the same.

          If it is too long to wait, it is too long for any position. I disagree, but that is because I think it is hard to break all the bad mechanical habits you incorrectly learned. Learning new mechanics when you have bad ones to replace is tough. Ask anyone who has been forced to learn a new golf swing after doing it badly for years. This kid is a blank piece of clay, ready to be molded. He is tough and physical. If he is like any of the other decent rugby guy, he loves the contact part of the sport and he will work hard. I know a very few rugby guys on some club teams over the years who weren't, but that is one of the things I like about rugby guys is there aren't too many primadonnas in the crowd.

          Gates and Tim Brewster (TE coach) credit Gates rapid development to the fact he had everything to learn from the beginning. He didn't have bad habits to overcome. College OL have so many bad habits these days. They are just not working on the fundamentals like they used to. I am excited about a new guy just because he could be the next Gates. Dielman was similar. He had no bussiness being on the field his rookie year. He was terrible. But it was like someone threw on a light switch the next season. We played the PS game in Australia or something and it was like who the hell is this guy. He simply abused everyone he faced all game, including the starters from the other team. But he developed in one year after being a DL in Indiana.

          For it to work, we would have to dedicate an entire roster spot to the guy, and not play him at all this year. If you let him play vs someone else in PS, you run the risk of him being poached off the PS. Then he comes into camp next year and you see what you really have.
          Really Rugby give you No skill set to fallback on in the NFL? Thats a stretch. Rugby isnt NFL for sure but its better then just being an athlete off the street. Being a TE is not the same as being a tackle, the skill set is very different. The Tackle has to be ready every play to block a premier pass rushing athlete and a TE is asked to chip block in pass pro or to occupy space in the power running game. The skill sets are hugely different, thats like saying a blocking TE could play tackle, not without a lot of practice.

          I do agree that he will be a huge risk on the PS and if he is truley dedicated to the NFL should take at least two years to hone his skill at a position and then try to a join a team. At 22 he would still be a prospect. and could actually try and compete for an NFL roster spot vs being a waste on the PS.

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          • bonehead
            Undrafted
            • Jul 2013
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            #29
            Rugby highlights


             
            Forget it Donny you're out of your element

            Shut the fuck up Donny

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            • Hard Charger
              Chargers fan since 1977!
              • Jun 2013
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              #30
              If he does get a shot at TE, he better learn how to carry the ball in the NFL!

              HC

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              • bonehead
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                #31
                A 340 pound Tight End would be insane
                Forget it Donny you're out of your element

                Shut the fuck up Donny

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                • Steve
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                  • Jun 2013
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                  #32
                  You would never ask a 340 lb TE to be a chip blocker. If he is on the field, it is going to be as a 3rd OT type. Again, the guy is no threat as a receiver. He has a catch radius, but that is it. Any LB or S will be able to cover him because he is so slow.

                  We also aren't going to use him as a blocking TE. We can only keep so many blockers on the roster at one time, and Virgil Green wasn't signed to be a receiver. He has some athletic ability and can do some damage with the ball in his hands, but he is not going to get many chances to catch, and he knows how. TE is a very difficult position to play even if you know how I don't see how overloading a guy who has never played American football is going to help speed his learning curve. Gates had a lot of football skills in terms of his route running to the court and had been a highly recruited TE in HS.

                  Henry gives us a lot of flexibility because he is a decent blocker too. We might try and develop another inline TE, but if we don't sign Gates, I can really see us looking for another pass catcher.

                  This guy is a lot like Jason Peters was coming out of Arkansas. He played blocking TE while he learned to play OT and then made the move to LT permanently his 2nd year. The only way he is going to catch anything was like Peters, in the goalline when teams forget about him. He has zero potential to get open on his own.

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                  • Pointyearedog
                    Humble Chargers Fan
                    • May 2017
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                    #33
                    A rugby player, eh? Well, the Bolts could use a kicker...
                    "You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer." --Frank Zappa

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                    • Budsman
                      Registered Charger Fan
                      • May 2017
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                      #34
                      Originally posted by Steve View Post
                      You would never ask a 340 lb TE to be a chip blocker. If he is on the field, it is going to be as a 3rd OT type. Again, the guy is no threat as a receiver. He has a catch radius, but that is it. Any LB or S will be able to cover him because he is so slow.

                      We also aren't going to use him as a blocking TE. We can only keep so many blockers on the roster at one time, and Virgil Green wasn't signed to be a receiver. He has some athletic ability and can do some damage with the ball in his hands, but he is not going to get many chances to catch, and he knows how. TE is a very difficult position to play even if you know how I don't see how overloading a guy who has never played American football is going to help speed his learning curve. Gates had a lot of football skills in terms of his route running to the court and had been a highly recruited TE in HS.

                      Henry gives us a lot of flexibility because he is a decent blocker too. We might try and develop another inline TE, but if we don't sign Gates, I can really see us looking for another pass catcher.

                      This guy is a lot like Jason Peters was coming out of Arkansas. He played blocking TE while he learned to play OT and then made the move to LT permanently his 2nd year. The only way he is going to catch anything was like Peters, in the goalline when teams forget about him. He has zero potential to get open on his own.

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                      • Formula 21
                        The Future is Now
                        • Jun 2013
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                        • Republic of San Diego
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                        #35
                        Now, if you excuse me, I have some Charger memories to suppress.
                        The Wasted Decade is done.
                        Build Back Better.

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                        • Steve
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                          • Jun 2013
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                          #36
                          If his being 6'8" is so overpowering, why have there only been a handful of 6'8" Te in the NFL before? Look at one's stats, and this guy knows how.

                          HERO Sports is the go-to website for college football analysis and predictions with an emphasis on the FCS and G5.

                          Levine Toilolo is a 6'8" TE for the Falcons. And while he is not super fast, he is faster than Mailata and can cut some too (living in SC, I see a lot of Falcons games). When he was drafted Falcons fans got all excited he could be the next Tony G. Guy is super athletic and has NFL bloodlines (3 uncles who played in the NFL). He was a 3rd/4th TE for a 2 TE offense, so he does actually play some. He is listed as the 2nd Te for the Lions, although they are on the Eric Ebron replacement search.

                          I'm not saying he is a football player, just saying there is a huge shortage of athletic OT out there, and this guy is a blank slate to try and develop one. Watching the lateral drill, he has some ability to mirror. He's more athletic then a lot of the UDFA so there is some upside there. It's not worth spending a draft pick on the guy, but if it is worth giving him a couple of thousand dollars in signing bonus.

                          OT play among college players is really, really falling off. College teams love the spread because so many of them can cut corners teaching technique. The WR and QB actually come out ahead, because they get so many reps running vs air, and that teach them. Pass rushers get more reps, so they get better. Blockers, not so much.

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                          • Panamamike
                            Panamamike commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Former basketball player and TE turned OT O’Neil for Pitt is an extremely athletic OT prospect in the draft.
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