Who's in on Ndamukong Suh?

[Budsman]

Ok, Rosens cap hit this year will be just a tad under 4 mil at 3.99 million, which is more than Taylor's 3.5. In 2020 it is 4.8 million for Rosen. Taylor has a ton more NFL experience and we didn't give up a second round or a 3rd round pick for him. I don't understand how tradng for Rosen is a good idea.

We will be drafting a QB in 2020 or 2021 so why trade for a guy when what we got costs just as much and has more experience? I just don't see the upside to trading for him.

I guess I see Rosen as Rivers successor not as his backup. If you want someone to play right now I think Taylor is better, Rosen has loads more upside though. rivers doesn't want to play forever and heaven forbid he gets badly hurt or just falls off a cliff I would rather have a talent like Rosen. Also drafting a qb in 2020 or 2021 is great if you are ok with taking back of the first round QBs.

We will likely be drafting late and Rosen has the talent that can be built on by being behind a hall of famer, see Aaron Rodgers.

[Steve]

I'm an idiot and didn't mean Ed reed. I meant Eric berry. Don't know why my brain got those two mixed up, I don't want Ed reed unless we can travel back in time.

As for haha we can agree to disagree, his best years including pro bowl years were at FS, he can obviously play there and he is better than anything we have and anything we could get there short of moving up in the first round.

You asked about who could have provided more impact and i provided multiple options. I actually like Taylor but I just worry the money could have been better spent. We don't have a lot and someone who actually contributes on a weekly basis vs someone who holds the clipboard.

As for rosen there has been talk by Daniel Jeremiah that most league sources think they can get a third rounder for Rosen, I wouldn't be upset with our second as it's a low second.

I wouldn't mind Ed as some sort of mentor for our young S. But we don't necessarily need him on the staff.

I like the idea of Berry, but leave that to the doctors.

Ha-Ha had some good times in GB back in the Packers D under Dom Capers. However, it is worth remembering that the scheme they played was a lot of very classic 2 deep and 3 deep zones. Most of his plays came with him pre-inverted as a rotating weak sky coverage. He has not been used like we use our FS. To call the 2 is like comparing a 34 NT to a 43 DE, both are DL, but there are few similarities between them.

The Chargers ask the FS to play single high coverage. 2 CB playing shallow in the 3 deep looks (primary) or an actual 1 deep S playing the whole field. That is a lot more territory for Dix to cover. More than he has when he was playing better. Dix has not been a good player in a couple of years. IMHO, he has gotten full of himself and is not the same player he was when he was playing better. He goes for the big plays and gives up a lot of others. I don't see him as being a good fit skill wise. Ha-Ha is a FS and we need a FS, but that is a completely superficial match and misses the point. Yet another reason why FA doesn't work.

Looking at Dix's contract, it doesn't look like any NFL team has much faith in him either. He is getting a $2 million salary with another $1.25 in bonuses and incentives. For a former 1st round pick, that signals a 1 year prove it deal. In fact, it is less than most 1 year prove it deals, so they don't have much faith in him either. He is getting a lot of that money for his durability, mostly I would imagine.

I don't disagree that Rosen will eventually be had for a 3rd rounder. That is not what I am saying. Rosen will EVENTUALLY be had for a 3rd rounder. I don't think anyone is going to give up a 3rd before the draft. IF they do, it will be part of a bigger package. We don't fit into that mold. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-team-can-make

We have Rivers for 2-3 more years. That means Rosen is not going to play that much. Rosen's deal runs out after 3rd years. Do you want to pay a guy QB money without having seen him play? I am not against trading draft picks for players, but you have to be smart about it. If we can sign a former 1st round pick for a 3rd occurs with a rookie, 1-year into rookie his deal, in 2-3 years, sign me up. The contracts durations are just a bad fit.

As far as the money spent on Tyrod, he is getting $3.5 mill this year. Not a lot of money for a key backup, let alone probably the best option to start if Rivers were to go down. I don't think we could have done any better, except possibly Teddy Bridgewater.

Right now, I don't see any real must fill spots. We want to get better on DL, OL, FS, and well, everywhere. We just can afford to go best available, especially along the lines.

[Budsman]

Ok, Rosens cap hit this year will be just a tad under 4 mil at 3.99 million, which is more than Taylor's 3.5. In 2020 it is 4.8 million for Rosen. Taylor has a ton more NFL experience and we didn't give up a second round or a 3rd round pick for him. I don't understand how tradng for Rosen is a good idea.

We will be drafting a QB in 2020 or 2021 so why trade for a guy when what we got costs just as much and has more experience? I just don't see the upside to trading for him.

https://twitter.com/fieldyates/status/1108076173651787777?s=21

this says Rosen will only cost a bit over 6 mil for 3 years combined due to the cardinals paying all the bonus money.

[Budsman]

I wouldn't mind Ed as some sort of mentor for our young S. But we don't necessarily need him on the staff.

I like the idea of Berry, but leave that to the doctors.

Ha-Ha had some good times in GB back in the Packers D under Dom Capers. However, it is worth remembering that the scheme they played was a lot of very classic 2 deep and 3 deep zones. Most of his plays came with him pre-inverted as a rotating weak sky coverage. He has not been used like we use our FS. To call the 2 is like comparing a 34 NT to a 43 DE, both are DL, but there are few similarities between them.

The Chargers ask the FS to play single high coverage. 2 CB playing shallow in the 3 deep looks (primary) or an actual 1 deep S playing the whole field. That is a lot more territory for Dix to cover. More than he has when he was playing better. Dix has not been a good player in a couple of years. IMHO, he has gotten full of himself and is not the same player he was when he was playing better. He goes for the big plays and gives up a lot of others. I don't see him as being a good fit skill wise. Ha-Ha is a FS and we need a FS, but that is a completely superficial match and misses the point. Yet another reason why FA doesn't work.

Looking at Dix's contract, it doesn't look like any NFL team has much faith in him either. He is getting a $2 million salary with another $1.25 in bonuses and incentives. For a former 1st round pick, that signals a 1 year prove it deal. In fact, it is less than most 1 year prove it deals, so they don't have much faith in him either. He is getting a lot of that money for his durability, mostly I would imagine.

I don't disagree that Rosen will eventually be had for a 3rd rounder. That is not what I am saying. Rosen will EVENTUALLY be had for a 3rd rounder. I don't think anyone is going to give up a 3rd before the draft. IF they do, it will be part of a bigger package. We don't fit into that mold. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-team-can-make

We have Rivers for 2-3 more years. That means Rosen is not going to play that much. Rosen's deal runs out after 3rd years. Do you want to pay a guy QB money without having seen him play? I am not against trading draft picks for players, but you have to be smart about it. If we can sign a former 1st round pick for a 3rd occurs with a rookie, 1-year into rookie his deal, in 2-3 years, sign me up. The contracts durations are just a bad fit.

As far as the money spent on Tyrod, he is getting $3.5 mill this year. Not a lot of money for a key backup, let alone probably the best option to start if Rivers were to go down. I don't think we could have done any better, except possibly Teddy Bridgewater.

Right now, I don't see any real must fill spots. We want to get better on DL, OL, FS, and well, everywhere. We just can afford to go best available, especially along the lines.

You said it yourself, we have rivers for 2-3 more years. Rivers has contemplated retirement before. We could realistically have 2 more years of rivers and that gives us a one year tryout after two years of seasoning on Rosen for about 6 million over those 3 years.

Ill take the risk rivers plays 3 years because if he does he's probably playing at a high level and we can pay Rosen if the coaches believe in him after 3 years and if not then you cut bait. It's really a no brainer for a 3rd round pick.

[Steve]

https://twitter.com/fieldyates/status/1108076173651787777?s=21

this says Rosen will only cost a bit over 6 mil for 3 years combined due to the cardinals paying all the bonus money.

https://overthecap.com/player/josh-rosen/6895/

Rosen costs just shy of $4 mill this season for the Cards. However, $2.7 mill is signing bonus, so Az eats that in a trade. That leaves him $1.3 mill cost for someone in a trade. It might be more, but depends on the structure of the deal, and what the wording is

2019 - $4.0mill - $2.7 mill = $1.3 mill cap #
2020 - $4.8mill - $2.7 mill = $2.1 mill cap #
2021 - $5.6mill - $2.7 mill = $2.9 mill cap #
Total cap hit for team trading for Rosen is about $6.3 mill

I am rounding off some, but that is pretty close to what Field Yates gets.

As I said earlier, the real issue is that if Rivers plays to 2020 or 2021, then we have almost no time to evaluate Rosen before we have to give him a big deal to keep him. If you want to dump Rivers and get Rosen, then it is fine to go after him. The 3rd round pick that it will probably take is also pretty handy trying to win now, instead of a player who might never start for us.

[Boltjolt]

https://twitter.com/fieldyates/statu...651787777?s=21

this says Rosen will only cost a bit over 6 mil for 3 years combined due to the cardinals paying all the bonus money.

That does not jive with this https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/arizona-...h-rosen-25105/

Or this https://overthecap.com/player/josh-rosen/6895/

Unless they paid all his bonus money of 10 mil last year. Even so, we already signed our backup so why trade a pick for another QB to be third string? If we didn't have Tyrod, I can maybe see it, but we do have Tyrod.

[Budsman]

https://overthecap.com/player/josh-rosen/6895/

Rosen costs just shy of $4 mill this season for the Cards. However, $2.7 mill is signing bonus, so Az eats that in a trade. That leaves him $1.3 mill cost for someone in a trade. It might be more, but depends on the structure of the deal, and what the wording is

2019 - $4.0mill - $2.7 mill = $1.3 mill cap #
2020 - $4.8mill - $2.7 mill = $2.1 mill cap #
2021 - $5.6mill - $2.7 mill = $2.9 mill cap #
Total cap hit for team trading for Rosen is about $6.3 mill

I am rounding off some, but that is pretty close to what Field Yates gets.

As I said earlier, the real issue is that if Rivers plays to 2020 or 2021, then we have almost no time to evaluate Rosen before we have to give him a big deal to keep him. If you want to dump Rivers and get Rosen, then it is fine to go after him. The 3rd round pick that it will probably take is also pretty handy trying to win now, instead of a player who might never start for us.

Nearly 90 percent of 3rd rounders don't end up as starters in the nfl. Rosen seems like he would be more likely to be successful. If Rosen sits behind Rivers for 3 years the coaches will have a good idea of what they have, if Rivers only plays 2 years we get a year to evaluate. Feels like a win win for about 6 million over 3 years. We do have tyrod now so maybe it's a moot point. Not sure we wouldn't carry 3 qbs if we pulled of the trade. It's not as if we are going to play Rosen this year anyway.

[Budsman]

That does not jive with this https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/arizona-...h-rosen-25105/

Or this https://overthecap.com/player/josh-rosen/6895/

Unless they paid all his bonus money of 10 mil last year. Even so, we already signed our backup so why trade a pick for another QB to be third string? If we didn't have Tyrod, I can maybe see it, but we do have Tyrod.

When a player is traded all their bonus money is paid by the trading team.

[Steve]

Nearly 90 percent of 3rd rounders don't end up as starters in the nfl. Rosen seems like he would be more likely to be successful. If Rosen sits behind Rivers for 3 years the coaches will have a good idea of what they have, if Rivers only plays 2 years we get a year to evaluate. Feels like a win win for about 6 million over 3 years. We do have tyrod now so maybe it's a moot point. Not sure we wouldn't carry 3 qbs if we pulled of the trade. It's not as if we are going to play Rosen this year anyway.

http://www.thepowderblues.com/forum/forum/los-angeles-chargers-forum-nfl-forum-padres-forum/the-los-angeles-chargers-forum/675037-official-2019-draft-discussion-we-have-the-28th-pick-prospect-visits?p=699248#post699248

Not sure what you mean by 90% of 3rd don't become starters. As a rookie, maybe that is true. Long term, that is clearly not true, as on average just shy of 30% for all positions. QB, about 17% do.


I would agree, that now we have signed Tyrod, it is probably a moot point.

I just don't see an NFL putting themselves on a timeline that has them giving a big money contract to a player who may not have proven themselves as a bit silly. At best, it puts us in a Brett Farve/Aaron Rodgers situation, where we ditch Rivers in favor of Rosen in time to let him prove himself.

The exception is if you think we don't re-sign Rivers next offseason when his contract expires. Then adding Rosen makes sense. We would still have him on his rookie deal and 2-years to let him prove himself.

[Boltjolt]

All I know is Rivers has said he would like to play in the new stadium. I think they try to extend him this year after the draft and all the cuts have been made which may include Benjamin.

[Budsman]

http://www.thepowderblues.com/forum/forum/los-angeles-chargers-forum-nfl-forum-padres-forum/the-los-angeles-chargers-forum/675037-official-2019-draft-discussion-we-have-the-28th-pick-prospect-visits?p=699248#post699248

Not sure what you mean by 90% of 3rd don't become starters. As a rookie, maybe that is true. Long term, that is clearly not true, as on average just shy of 30% for all positions. QB, about 17% do.


I would agree, that now we have signed Tyrod, it is probably a moot point.

I just don't see an NFL putting themselves on a timeline that has them giving a big money contract to a player who may not have proven themselves as a bit silly. At best, it puts us in a Brett Farve/Aaron Rodgers situation, where we ditch Rivers in favor of Rosen in time to let him prove himself.

The exception is if you think we don't re-sign Rivers next offseason when his contract expires. Then adding Rosen makes sense. We would still have him on his rookie deal and 2-years to let him prove himself.

It depends on what you're looking for, in this article they looked at all starters in 2014 and roughly 10% of 3rd rounders were starters.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/prishe/2015/05/22/tracking-nfl-draft-efficiency-how-contingent-is-success-to-draft-position/amp/

Either way 3rd round picks are gambles. Rosen is also a gamble but a low risk high reward gamble. I've seen third round picks gambled away on worse.

I tend to agree with you evaluation of rivers playing 2-3 more years. He may be able to Tom Brady but I don't think he will, he has a family he loves and many reasons to stop. If we win it all next season I could see him walking away on top. He has said he wants to play in the new stadium but he's also said he was ready to retire a few years ago, when his kids and family want him to retire he will and that may be sooner rather than later.

I also don't think it's crazy do trade for Rosen and carry 3 qbs, we've done it before and Rosen would cost our team about 1.5 million this year, hardly a burden. Next year we can cut ties with tyrod and move forward.

But ill I'll admit it's h likely we trade for him, for this reason, I think Lynn wants a mobile qb, badly. He's made it clear that every backup brought in during his tenure has been a mobile scrambling qb. He tolerates rivers because rivers is damn good, but given his choice he'll bring in a different type of qb.

[Budsman]

Teams also sign to large a large contract and/or trade for them with little to no game time based on their play in partial seasons games and preaseason. It's been happening for decades see Charlie whitehurst, Jimmie G, Bret Favre, Steve Young, Aaron Rodgers(how did that turn out for the team).

Its not crazy to think you sign a player and start them a player with little to no experience but a good amount of seasoning.