The Patriots

[blueman]

Cheaters.

[wu-dai clan]

Cheaters.

QFT.
There is no statute of limitations on their shite, either.

[Fleet]

Patriots signed LB Jamie Collins.

Collins is back with the Patriots after being traded to the Browns in 2016. He's coming off a middling season, but Collins knows Bill Belichick's scheme and played his best years in New England. Collins is expected to get in some on-field work during OTAs.

Patriots signed DT Danny Shelton.

The Patriots sent a third-round pick to Cleveland in order to acquire Shelton last March, but utilized the run-stuffer on just 23 snaps over two postseason games at season's end. The 25-year-old will make for a viable option in a rotational role up the middle with Lawrence Guy, Adam Butler, and Mike Pennel.

[Bolts223]

It seems as if you were the one that stated that the Patriots would have won 95% of the divisions from 2003 to the present as if the Patriots were this historically great world beating monolith. You then cited the SRS metric for seemingly the same proposition. If they were truly so great, why would it matter which team got substituted out of the division? It seems that in discussing which team would be swapped for the Patriots, you are hedging on your statements about the greatness of the Patriots. I did not see any such qualifying remarks in your previous posts.

Also, the reason why the Patriots being in a weak division for so many of the seasons of the Brady/Belichick era matters so much has very little to do with whether or not the Patriots would have won other divisions had they been swapped for the divison winner of the other divisions, but rather to do with the fact that in every one of the 9 instances in which the Patriots reached the Super Bowl in the Brady/Belichick era, the Patriots had a first round bye. Being in a division that has been weak for many seasons has been a huge factor in putting the Patriots in a position to reach Super Bowls. During the entire time from 2003-2018, the Patriots have had a winning record in their division (8 times 5-1, 6 times 4-2 and 2 times 6-0).

Of course, the reason why the truly great 1980s and 1990s teams are relevant to the discussion is because they represent examples of what truly dominant teams looks like. I 100% agree that the league was different then. Truly dominant and historically great teams did exist then and pretty much do not exist now. That is exactly my point. No truly dominant great teams exist and that includes the Patriots who have never produced a historically great Super Bowl winning team.

I'm not really sure what your point here is. They also always have a winning record outside of the division as well. The Patriots win a lot of games.

I think the 2004 Patriots are probably a top 5-10 all-time team in the SB era and the best team we've seen in the 21st century. They went 14-2 in an absolutely loaded AFC in the regular season. Even the AFC East you are dismissing produced a 10-6 and 9-7 team that year outside of the Patriots. They then held a Colts team that featured an historic offense and held it to 3 points. They then went on the road into Pittsburgh and dominated a 15-1 Steelers team with an elite defense. Even though the Pats only beat the Eagles by 3, it should be noted that they were pretty much in control of that game the entire second half and the score was 24-14 until the Eagles scored a very late touchdown with under 2 minutes left.

And even if you don't think that the 2004 Patriots weren't among the greatest SB winners, what does that matter? 18 years ago the Patriots were a franchise just like the Chargers who had never won a SB before. Now they have passed franchises like the Cowboys and 49ers in SB wins and have tied the Steelers. The Patriots in 18 seasons have won 6 SB's, gone to 9 SB's and 13 AFC Championship games. Even the other elite franchises like the Cowboys, 49ers and Packers have won as much in the entire SB era as the Patriots have in 18 years. If you really don't think anything is notable or special about that, I don't know what to tell you. You'll never see a team be so consistently excellent ever again.

[like54ninjas]

FUCK the patsies

[Bolts223]

It seems as if you were the one that stated that the Patriots would have won 95% of the divisions from 2003 to the present as if the Patriots were this historically great world beating monolith. You then cited the SRS metric for seemingly the same proposition. If they were truly so great, why would it matter which team got substituted out of the division? It seems that in discussing which team would be swapped for the Patriots, you are hedging on your statements about the greatness of the Patriots. I did not see any such qualifying remarks in your previous posts.

Also, the reason why the Patriots being in a weak division for so many of the seasons of the Brady/Belichick era matters so much has very little to do with whether or not the Patriots would have won other divisions had they been swapped for the divison winner of the other divisions, but rather to do with the fact that in every one of the 9 instances in which the Patriots reached the Super Bowl in the Brady/Belichick era, the Patriots had a first round bye. Being in a division that has been weak for many seasons has been a huge factor in putting the Patriots in a position to reach Super Bowls. During the entire time from 2003-2018, the Patriots have had a winning record in their division (8 times 5-1, 6 times 4-2 and 2 times 6-0).

Of course, the reason why the truly great 1980s and 1990s teams are relevant to the discussion is because they represent examples of what truly dominant teams looks like. I 100% agree that the league was different then. Truly dominant and historically great teams did exist then and pretty much do not exist now. That is exactly my point. No truly dominant great teams exist and that includes the Patriots who have never produced a historically great Super Bowl winning team.

Main point: The AFC East isn't the only division where the Patriots would easily be able to dominate 3 teams for 15-20 years. The AFC East isn't great by any means, but I don't think the Titans/Jags/Texans, Vikings/Bears/Lions, Cowboys/Giants/Redskins or even the Ravens/Bengals/Browns would really keep NE from winning as many SB's as they have. I know you'll argue that those teams have been in the playoffs more, but they don't have to play NE twice a year and they don't have to get through the Pats to win a division title every year.

I would argue that the Pats could potentially have won more SB's in the 2000's if they played in the NFC. I think people forget just how bad the NFC was and how good the AFC was back then.

I would also argue that if the Pats were in the AFC West that Peyton Manning doesn't sign with the Broncos and Andy Reid doesn't come to the Chiefs.

[powderblueboy]

Patriots signed LB Jamie Collins.

Collins is back with the Patriots after being traded to the Browns in 2016. He's coming off a middling season, but Collins knows Bill Belichick's scheme and played his best years in New England. Collins is expected to get in some on-field work during OTAs.

Patriots signed DT Danny Shelton.

The Patriots sent a third-round pick to Cleveland in order to acquire Shelton last March, but utilized the run-stuffer on just 23 snaps over two postseason games at season's end. The 25-year-old will make for a viable option in a rotational role up the middle with Lawrence Guy, Adam Butler, and Mike Pennel.

Collins was a budding star on the Pats. Like so many Patriots, they go to other teams, underwhelm, & get overpaid. Patrick Chung suddenly got good again back on the Patriots.

Who overpaid for Trey Flowers?

[powderblueboy]

Yeah imagine.

They have 6 SB wins, we have Zero.
They balled in the playoffs......again,...beating the top teams and have 3 SB wins after winning in the playoffs on the road.
Why this is a discussion, I've no idea. Say anything you want, it don't matter. They have 6 SB wins and aren't playing the Bills,Jets or Miami in the playoffs.

Imagine what? What's it like get healthy and cruise into the playoffs Pat style? If only! Outside of the Pats, that division has been a garbage dump for the last 8 seasons & the Pats can rest players without any competent team breathing down their neck. They balled in the playoffs because they had no starters out in playoff games - let that sink in!



Warrior fans are happy that the Blazers got dispensed in 4 games. They now get to rest up and watch the Bucks/Raptors beat each other up. Silly them!

[Bolts223]

Imagine what? What's it like get healthy and cruise into the playoffs Pat style? If only! Outside of the Pats, that division has been a garbage dump for the last 8 seasons & the Pats can rest players without any competent team breathing down their neck. They balled in the playoffs because they had no starters out in playoff games - let that sink in!



Warrior fans are happy that the Blazers got dispensed in 4 games. They now get to rest up and watch the Bucks/Raptors beat each other up. Silly them!

You act as if that happens to them every year. How many times have they had Gronk injured in the past? I remember in 2015 they had a 3rd string guard and a 4th string Tackle starting against the Broncos in the AFCCG. They lost Cooks early in the SB in 2017, they had no Edelman at all in 2017. The Patriots are far from immune to injury contrary to popular belief.

They definitely weren't resting players at the end of the season, they were playing for a first round bye through the final week of the season.

[Fleet]

Collins was a budding star on the Pats. Like so many Patriots, they go to other teams, underwhelm, & get overpaid. Patrick Chung suddenly got good again back on the Patriots.

Who overpaid for Trey Flowers?

I had no idea that Chung ever went to the Philly. I had to look that up. Cup of coffee with the Eagles. Pats are just good at getting the most out of their players.

[beachcomber]

Patriots signed LB Jamie Collins.

Collins is back with the Patriots after being traded to the Browns in 2016. He's coming off a middling season, but Collins knows Bill Belichick's scheme and played his best years in New England. Collins is expected to get in some on-field work during OTAs.

Patriots signed DT Danny Shelton.

The Patriots sent a third-round pick to Cleveland in order to acquire Shelton last March, but utilized the run-stuffer on just 23 snaps over two postseason games at season's end. The 25-year-old will make for a viable option in a rotational role up the middle with Lawrence Guy, Adam Butler, and Mike Pennel.

these guys are killing me/it.... first they got Bundchen, and now in the draft they add the Ham Sandwich and Yodny, and here they go again in FA.... both She!ton and Co!!ins.

don't pay much attention to other teams, and.... can't say I won't have an eye out for the aforementioned in the seasons to come.

[Fleet]

these guys are killing me/it.... first they got Bundchen, and now in the draft they add the Ham Sandwich and Yodny, and here they go again in FA.... both She!ton and Co!!ins.

don't pay much attention to other teams, and.... can't say I won't have an eye out for the aforementioned in the seasons to come.

I really only focus on the Pats because they are our nemesis.