Clary, why is he still here???

[mikec]

Please keep rebuttles to 50 words or less!

There is no such thing as Vogon poetry of less than 50 words.

[Steve]

If this post is directed my way, I have not done so. I have criticized 1) Steve's theory as unsupported by actual evidence and 2) Panama's apparent adherence to Steve's theory because of Steve's asserted knowledge of the football even though Steve's theory is unsupported by evidence.

Other people's opinions are NOT evidence. They are hearsay.

And have you actually sat down and watched the games AGAIN. IF not, you are full of it.

[Mister Hoarse]

There is no such thing as Vogon poetry of less than 50 words.

I have never heard of Vogon poetry before, but the statistics seem to support this.

[RobH]

I think Clary has really gotten a bad rap from a lot of fans, and it's carried over throughout the years. Some guys get a negative reputation for something and that's it. Clary wasn't the best RT, but he was adequate, and the coaches always graded him out that way. If he were as terrible as many of our fans claim, then the team would have found a replacement for him a long time ago. There's no way that this team is going to keep a terrible lineman around, especially with the kind of score that PFF gave Clary, and with the salary he carries. He could be the greatest guy in the world, but there's not a coach in the world that will keep and start a subpar player just because he's a good guy.

Yuba, you keep talking like you know so much about football, but how much have you actually played the game? Seriously, how much have you actually played? I played in HS, and I was a far better baseball player, but I learned all the OL positions, because I was the smartest guy on the line. However, that limited experience only makes me realize that I know jack shit about line play. I've watched a bit of film, and I agree with former pros who say that watching film is an art, and the average rookie in the NFL doesn't know what to look for and it takes awhile to really know what you're looking at, and this is looking at game and practice films, which are a whole lot different than looking at the TV views. So unless you've had training in HOW to watch the films, especially of choreographed line play, then I would argue that you really don't know what you are talking about.

You keep saying that the experts agree with you and not Steve, yet the true experts are the coaches and talent evaluators in the front office, and they all say that Clary is doing a great job. If he wasn't, I guarantee you, Telesco would have him out of here in a New York second.

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

And the world use to be flat, untill it was discovered that it wasnt. At the point the world becomes round for Yubba, I hope he gives proper credit and respect.

[mikec]

I have never heard of Vogon poetry before, but the statistics seem to support this.

See, see the LOP sky
Marvel at its big Clear depths.
Tell me, Disterbed do you
Wonder why the Loppers ignores you?
Why its foobly stare
makes you feel Groovy.
I can tell you, it is
Worried by your ****waffle facial growth
That looks like
A Eggs.
What's more, it knows
Your Bum potting shed
Smells of Pea.
Everything under the big LOP sky
Asks why, why do you even bother?
You only charm Armpitss.

[Mister Hoarse]

Time to charm this armpits

[Yubaking]

I think Clary has really gotten a bad rap from a lot of fans, and it's carried over throughout the years. Some guys get a negative reputation for something and that's it. Clary wasn't the best RT, but he was adequate, and the coaches always graded him out that way. If he were as terrible as many of our fans claim, then the team would have found a replacement for him a long time ago. There's no way that this team is going to keep a terrible lineman around, especially with the kind of score that PFF gave Clary, and with the salary he carries. He could be the greatest guy in the world, but there's not a coach in the world that will keep and start a subpar player just because he's a good guy.

Yuba, you keep talking like you know so much about football, but how much have you actually played the game? Seriously, how much have you actually played? I played in HS, and I was a far better baseball player, but I learned all the OL positions, because I was the smartest guy on the line. However, that limited experience only makes me realize that I know jack shit about line play. I've watched a bit of film, and I agree with former pros who say that watching film is an art, and the average rookie in the NFL doesn't know what to look for and it takes awhile to really know what you're looking at, and this is looking at game and practice films, which are a whole lot different than looking at the TV views. So unless you've had training in HOW to watch the films, especially of choreographed line play, then I would argue that you really don't know what you are talking about.

You keep saying that the experts agree with you and not Steve, yet the true experts are the coaches and talent evaluators in the front office, and they all say that Clary is doing a great job. If he wasn't, I guarantee you, Telesco would have him out of here in a New York second.

RobH and Stinky, I think you guys have the matter turned on its head. It is Steve that is saying that the world is flat when what we have seen says it is round.

My own observation is that Clary did not run block very well. Several others on this board concur with that assessment. Today is the very first time I have ever heard this brand new assertion that it was really all Dunlap's fault for failing to seal off the backside cut back lanes as to why we could not run to the right. That assertion is crap and I pity anyone that can't see it for what it is.

As Fleet stated, Clary is a solid pass protector and I would add the qualification that that is true when he is not against a speed rusher on an island (i.e., when he is not playing OT) and I am sure that that is why he is being kept if at all, not because of his run blocking prowess, which is not so much. This discussion has been about his run blocking. The fact that Clary is being kept for other reasons may not involve what we have been discussing.

Also, the season has not begun and Telesco may yet have Clary restructure or may yet cut him. Lots of people believe he is not worth a cap hit of $6.25M. I believe he is not worth half of that, although $1.7M of that is prorated signing bonus. Again, it isn't like I am alone in 1) criticizing Clary's run blocking or 2) asserting that he is not worth a cap hit figure of $6.25M. If Telesco has no other moves to make and wants to make Clary happy, then he can just let him keep all of that money, but let's not pretend that we just woke up in a world in which Clary is a good run blocker or that he is worth a $6.25M cap figure.

As for our struggles running to the right and relative roles of Clary and Dunlap, I continue to be of a mind that while PFF may not be exactly correct as to the precise numbers that they assign, they are usually not completely wrong as to the thumbs up or down proposition of good player or bad player with respect to players graded heavily positively (like Dunlap) or heavily negatively (like Clary). The conclusion then is that Dunlap was good and Clary was bad--at least as a run blocker--where he was assigned a hugely negative number.

The PFF numbers, of course, are further supported by the Football Outsiders numbers that show that we did not run well to the right, which Clary's poor run blocking tends to explain.

And the conclusions of the two former sources are supported by what I myself observed and by the conclusions independently reached by numerous commentators who have suggested that Clary is a prime candidate to become a salary cap casualty, which would not have been suggested absent the conclusion that he was not worth the money.

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

If this post is directed my way, I have not done so. I have criticized 1) Steve's theory as unsupported by actual evidence and 2) Panama's apparent adherence to Steve's theory because of Steve's asserted knowledge of the football even though Steve's theory is unsupported by evidence.

Taking it to a personal level would be like someone calling me a "shithead" (even though the post was later edited to omit that reference) or calling me "fucking stupid". Those are the only personal attacks that have occurred in this thread in my view.

If you knew Steves credentials you might start to realize that your argument about choosing to listen to payed pundits whos qualification can be tenuos in some casses. To quote a backwood lawer. Your aguments holds less weight than the stock of a soup made from the shadow of a starved pidgon."

[oneinchpunch]

I think Clary has really gotten a bad rap from a lot of fans, and it's carried over throughout the years. Some guys get a negative reputation for something and that's it. Clary wasn't the best RT, but he was adequate

I thought he played really well in 2010/2011 and he still got bashed a lot. He didn't play very well in 2012 and last year I thought he was really bad.

[Yubaking]

If you knew Steves credentials you might start to realize that your argument about choosing to listen to payed pundits whos qualification can be tenuos in some casses. To quote a backwood lawer. Your aguments holds less weight than the stock of a soup made from the shadow of a starved pidgon."

I am not listening to a bunch of paid of paid pundits. I am noting that their independently reached conclusion seems to be in agreement with my own with respect to Clary. Maybe we are all wrong along with PFF and Football Outsiders, but I don't think so. And if Steve is right, then PFF is not just wrong, but they are day is night and night is day wrong because their conclusion is that Clary was not just bad, but very bad and that Dunlap was not just good, but very good.

[thelightningwill]

I am not listening to a bunch of paid of paid pundits. I am noting that their independently reached conclusion seems to be in agreement with my own with respect to Clary. Maybe we are all wrong along with PFF and Football Outsiders, but I don't think so. And if Steve is right, then PFF is not just wrong, but they are day is night and night is day wrong because their conclusion is that Clary was not just bad, but very bad and that Dunlap was not just good, but very good.

From what I saw during the regular season, it sure seemed like Clary sucked (not as bad as he did as a tackle, but still pretty shitty). However, I noticed in the playoffs, without him, our offensive line took a big crap. So maybe he wasn't as terrible as I thought I saw.