Rank the QB Draft prospects

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  • C'monchargers
    Registered Charger Fan
    • Feb 2019
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    #61
    1. RB. You are right, Rodney Anderson was good which helps me, TY. He has the best hands of all the names you have mentioned. He had 21 targets, 17 catches for 281 yard and 5 receiving TD in 2017. He was a key player in the CFP in 2017. His hands were one of the big reason why Bengals picked him up in the 6th round after he tear his ACL in his senior year, he had 4 reception and 51 yds in their 3rd preseason game before he tear his ACL again. And Trey Sermon was good and making the 2017 depth even stronger. 2019 suppose to be the year Trey Sermon shows if he has it to be a good running back but then he got injured, that certainly didn't help your argument, so that is a discount right there. Then Kennedy Brooks comes in for Sermon. First off Kennedy Brooks does not have the hands like Sermon or Anderson. Also his 155 att, 1011 yrds plus 6 TD just not what I consider great, not to mention the best they have ever had,.

    Remember we are only talking 2017 because i used it as an example, Remember typing this?...... "There was WR running wide open that he usually just flat out didn’t see. His time to throw was the most in the entire FBS there’s no excuse not to see Open WR. Especially in coach Riley’s system. This was the deepest skill group OU has ever had and they were pretty much rendered pointless because of hurts." Haven't even talk about other years like 2018.

    In Oklahoma's 42-41 win over Iowa State, RB Kennedy Brooks led the Sooners' efforts on the ground with 132 yards, including a 48-yard touchdown run, his long...


    Besides, Kennedy success more or less the product of the system. He was running in a zone blocking system with a mobile quarter back in a read option offense. which defense has to account for both of them for run plays. And he would probably not touch the ball unless the quarterback sees that his lane is open and hands it off. On this game hightlight against Iowa which he puts up monster stats line, 15 att, 123 yds and 1 td; even so when you watch the video, you can tell he is untouched on the regular, running through the open lane. How much talent does it take to do that? And that is 123 of his 1,011 yds total on the year. They haven't had a RB that rushes for over 1600 yds in 3 years. Good line or bad.

    Ramondre Stevenson looks good, has the talent but he isn't impacting the game this year as you had let on. He average 5 carries a game and his carries are pretty much consistence through out the season. http://stats.washingtonpost.com/cfb/....asp?id=303454

    And why even mention, Sutton who carried the ball 22 times in 2017 and Pledger who you said had "proven" himself to you with 10 carries. What did you see in those 10 carries?? I think you are using the word talent very loosely, when a guy carries the ball 10 times, that's not talent; that's potential. You got show that you potential lives up before calling it a talent.

    WR. This one is debatable. How is it they had no depth in 2017 but so loaded in 2019? First off, yeah Marquise Brown is Marquise Brown and you already know it. Then we have this freshman Ceedee Lamb, one that you claim Rambo is superior to. How so when Ceedee Lamb had 46 receptions in 2017 for 814 yds and 7TD, and Rambo this past year has 43 receptions, 743 yds and 5 TD. Looks to me they are both playing the same roles and getting similar result. To say one is superior than the other with as little backing you gave was not very convincing. Trivia: When was the last time an OU freshman WR put up his stats? Plus if it wasn't for Andrews, his target would've gone up for sure.

    And those "Future 1st round picks you mentioned" - Haselwood and Wease, talented or not are just role players at this point that hardly touch the ball, why are we talking about player who has less than 20 receptions and hailing them as depth. That's reeling. I can name at least 5 other WR on the 2017 roster that has more than 20 receptions.

    TE. This one isn't even close. Mark Andrews was a former wide receiver and a Mackey Award winner. Mark Andrews had 63 catches, 974 yds and 8 TD. He leads OU in rec and yards. First off, of all the starter quality TE's you have listed, Lee Morris has never and was never a TE. He was inspire by Lee Morris Sr. to be a WR in OU and he did just that. So you are down to 3, Those 3 combined for 23 receptions, 413 yds plus 3 TD. What depth, forget depth, aren't we talking about "Best skill position OU had ever had"? Reily has shown what he can do with a good TE in Andrews so if he has somebody like that on his roster, won't you think he would utilize?

    And if we are talking about skill positions then lets talk about them as a unit. Mark Andrews is a match up nightmare especially on the post. Marquise Brown is know for his speed and Mark Andrews has helped creating single match ups for him to burn and play up to his strength. Although one can argue 2017 top WR in Marquise Brown is lesser than Ceedee of this year, but I have a problem calling Rambo better than a freshman Ceedee. Adding Andrews which he often line up as a slot WR, and function as one. The parts already looks it, and the sum of its parts is even better than its individual component. So as a whole, the skill position is much more complete and functional in 2017 than 2019. Hands down.


    2. The only time the offensive line really look decent is zone blocking. Which can be quite different than conventional pass protection that is more power concept. Your chart is skewd and so is your rebuttal at first you post this and it said, average time to throw. and when peeps raise question about it you conveniently follow up with this
    Which this one obviously said, Time in pocket; not average time to throw. I bet they aren't even linked. Why would you even do that, you think people wouldn't recognize that??

    3. When you say an entire group is best of all time; I don't know about you but in grammar there is good, better and best. Seems like best tops them all with no equal right? Not even one of the best, but best has no equal.

    As far as saying stats doesn't matter. This is what you said quoting from your post "What I tell you is the cold truth and that’s that Jalen is exactly what is haters say he is. In the back half of the season he completely handicapped the offense. Jalen is not a natural QB at all. Not that stats even matter in the 1st place, but most his explosive plays come OU WR core being so explosive.

    And this "I’m seeing a lot of stats, but stats honestly don’t mean much, they just show the end result. Especially for QB’s. The details are what’s most important. 2 plays that both result in a TD can be completely different." And also, which detail is most important in your opinion? Detail tapes, detail stats what is it? Eh you know that's why there are all kinds of situational stats out there.

    4. Yeah and with the adjustment of their overall defensive player efficiency, like DL efficiency and ILB against drop backs, etc. they are neck to neck. Adding TCU has defensive players that are slot in the upper in this year's draft like Ross Blacklock. Also Kansas St. allowed 10 less TD than TCU did.


    5. Yeah you should. And You should also try to use less emotion and he say, she say in your arguments. You keeps on talking about the system, progression and all that; you haven't give one realistic example of any progression or any read. show an example of how you analyze progressions and schemes, let's see it.

    As for tapes, I have yet seen you put up anything with tapes not to even mention what you think of them. Your stats is not even informative just plain stats with no analytical content attached or perimeter or how it is collected.

    I found myself getting very little out of your post. Mostly, just words but has very little substance.
    Last edited by C'monchargers; 03-02-2020, 04:00 PM.

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    • C'monchargers
      Registered Charger Fan
      • Feb 2019
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      #62
      OU 2017 player stats.



      2019:




      Just for reference

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      • like54ninjas
        Registered Charger Fan
        • Oct 2017
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        • Great White North
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        #63
        Compare what? You should list the same set of stats to make your comparison.
        My 2021 Adopt-A-Bolt List

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        • C'monchargers
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          • Feb 2019
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          #64
          Originally posted by like54ninjas View Post

          Compare what? You should list the same set of stats to make your comparison.

          https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb...homa/2017.html

          https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb...homa/2019.html

          Like this. Or you can easily scroll down on the other link and see the same info.

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          • DerekReed98
            Registered Charger Fan
            • Feb 2020
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            #65
            Originally posted by C'monchargers View Post
            1. RB. You are right, Rodney Anderson was good which helps me, TY. He has the best hands of all the names you have mentioned. He had 21 targets, 17 catches for 281 yard and 5 receiving TD in 2017. He was a key player in the CFP in 2017. His hands were one of the big reason why Bengals picked him up in the 6th round after he tear his ACL in his senior year, he had 4 reception and 51 yds in their 3rd preseason game before he tear his ACL again. And Trey Sermon was good and making the 2017 depth even stronger. 2019 suppose to be the year Trey Sermon shows if he has it to be a good running back but then he got injured, that certainly didn't help your argument, so that is a discount right there. Then Kennedy Brooks comes in for Sermon. First off Kennedy Brooks does not have the hands like Sermon or Anderson. Also his 155 att, 1011 yrds plus 6 TD just not what I consider great, not to mention the best they have ever had,.

            Remember we are only talking 2017 because i used it as an example, Remember typing this?...... "There was WR running wide open that he usually just flat out didn’t see. His time to throw was the most in the entire FBS there’s no excuse not to see Open WR. Especially in coach Riley’s system. This was the deepest skill group OU has ever had and they were pretty much rendered pointless because of hurts." Haven't even talk about other years like 2018.

            In Oklahoma's 42-41 win over Iowa State, RB Kennedy Brooks led the Sooners' efforts on the ground with 132 yards, including a 48-yard touchdown run, his long...


            Besides, Kennedy success more or less the product of the system. He was running in a zone blocking system with a mobile quarter back in a read option offense. which defense has to account for both of them for run plays. And he would probably not touch the ball unless the quarterback sees that his lane is open and hands it off. On this game hightlight against Iowa which he puts up monster stats line, 15 att, 123 yds and 1 td; even so when you watch the video, you can tell he is untouched on the regular, running through the open lane. How much talent does it take to do that? And that is 123 of his 1,011 yds total on the year. They haven't had a RB that rushes for over 1600 yds in 3 years. Good line or bad.

            Ramondre Stevenson looks good, has the talent but he isn't impacting the game this year as you had let on. He average 5 carries a game and his carries are pretty much consistence through out the season. http://stats.washingtonpost.com/cfb/....asp?id=303454

            And why even mention, Sutton who carried the ball 22 times in 2017 and Pledger who you said had "proven" himself to you with 10 carries. What did you see in those 10 carries?? I think you are using the word talent very loosely, when a guy carries the ball 10 times, that's not talent; that's potential. You got show that you potential lives up before calling it a talent.

            WR. This one is debatable. How is it they had no depth in 2017 but so loaded in 2019? First off, yeah Marquise Brown is Marquise Brown and you already know it. Then we have this freshman Ceedee Lamb, one that you claim Rambo is superior to. How so when Ceedee Lamb had 46 receptions in 2017 for 814 yds and 7TD, and Rambo this past year has 43 receptions, 743 yds and 5 TD. Looks to me they are both playing the same roles and getting similar result. To say one is superior than the other with as little backing you gave was not very convincing. Trivia: When was the last time an OU freshman WR put up his stats? Plus if it wasn't for Andrews, his target would've gone up for sure.

            And those "Future 1st round picks you mentioned" - Haselwood and Wease, talented or not are just role players at this point that hardly touch the ball, why are we talking about player who has less than 20 receptions and hailing them as depth. That's reeling. I can name at least 5 other WR on the 2017 roster that has more than 20 receptions.

            TE. This one isn't even close. Mark Andrews was a former wide receiver and a Mackey Award winner. Mark Andrews had 63 catches, 974 yds and 8 TD. He leads OU in rec and yards. First off, of all the starter quality TE's you have listed, Lee Morris has never and was never a TE. He was inspire by Lee Morris Sr. to be a WR in OU and he did just that. So you are down to 3, Those 3 combined for 23 receptions, 413 yds plus 3 TD. What depth, forget depth, aren't we talking about "Best skill position OU had ever had"? Reily has shown what he can do with a good TE in Andrews so if he has somebody like that on his roster, won't you think he would utilize?

            And if we are talking about skill positions then lets talk about them as a unit. Mark Andrews is a match up nightmare especially on the post. Marquise Brown is know for his speed and Mark Andrews has helped creating single match ups for him to burn and play up to his strength. Although one can argue 2017 top WR in Marquise Brown is lesser than Ceedee of this year, but I have a problem calling Rambo better than a freshman Ceedee. Adding Andrews which he often line up as a slot WR, and function as one. The parts already looks it, and the sum of its parts is even better than its individual component. So as a whole, the skill position is much more complete and functional in 2017 than 2019. Hands down.


            2. The only time the offensive line really look decent is zone blocking. Which can be quite different than conventional pass protection that is more power concept. Your chart is skewd and so is your rebuttal at first you post this and it said, average time to throw. and when peeps raise question about it you conveniently follow up with this
            Which this one obviously said, Time in pocket; not average time to throw. I bet they aren't even linked. Why would you even do that, you think people wouldn't recognize that??

            3. When you say an entire group is best of all time; I don't know about you but in grammar there is good, better and best. Seems like best tops them all with no equal right? Not even one of the best, but best has no equal.

            As far as saying stats doesn't matter. This is what you said quoting from your post "What I tell you is the cold truth and that’s that Jalen is exactly what is haters say he is. In the back half of the season he completely handicapped the offense. Jalen is not a natural QB at all. Not that stats even matter in the 1st place, but most his explosive plays come OU WR core being so explosive.

            And this "I’m seeing a lot of stats, but stats honestly don’t mean much, they just show the end result. Especially for QB’s. The details are what’s most important. 2 plays that both result in a TD can be completely different." And also, which detail is most important in your opinion? Detail tapes, detail stats what is it? Eh you know that's why there are all kinds of situational stats out there.

            4. Yeah and with the adjustment of their overall defensive player efficiency, like DL efficiency and ILB against drop backs, etc. they are neck to neck. Adding TCU has defensive players that are slot in the upper in this year's draft like Ross Blacklock. Also Kansas St. allowed 10 less TD than TCU did.


            5. Yeah you should. And You should also try to use less emotion and he say, she say in your arguments. You keeps on talking about the system, progression and all that; you haven't give one realistic example of any progression or any read. show an example of how you analyze progressions and schemes, let's see it.

            As for tapes, I have yet seen you put up anything with tapes not to even mention what you think of them. Your stats is not even informative just plain stats with no analytical content attached or perimeter or how it is collected.

            I found myself getting very little out of your post. Mostly, just words but has very little substance.
            You right about the time in pocket thing that’s my bad didn’t even realize. As for the rest there’s so much wrong with what you just said I’m just gonna let it go. You have a wonderful night.

            Comment

            • powderblueboy
              Registered Charger Fan
              • Jul 2017
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              #66
              Originally posted by C'monchargers View Post

              You are going to have to back that up. With tapes, facts, or stats whatever.

              First off, statistics merely tells you what happen, when did it happen; it's up to whoever it is to use it to figure out, how it happen and why. So to a certain extend, you are right; if the info get into a certain hand it would be useless. If you don't put much thought into connecting the dots, its just dots. But if it gets into some other hands, it can be very useful.

              You mention you are from Oklahoma and had been a life long fan, So you must be forgetful in saying this year "They had the best skill position ever" when only 3 long years ago, they had Mark Andrews, Marquise Brown and Ceedee Lamb on the roster. Second you said this year "he has the most time to throw in college football", how? Their best rank olineman was ranked 76th in Adrian Ealy - rating at 73.4 in all situations. They are 46th in pass-blocking and their highest ranking positional player ranked just 42nd in pass protection. Creed Hunphrey regress big time from 2018. On top of that,Swenson and Ealy both dealt with injury, Ealy was hurt before the game against Texas. In 2017 They had one of the best oline in football with Orlando Brown being a top 5 olineman in NCAA.

              For somebody who said stats means nothing, you sure throw out some stats (most time to throw, best skill positions.....)

              You said you are a bottom line person, bottom line is he had lost 2 games only as a sooner. Once against Kansas st. which has a even stronger secondary than TCU, and against LSU. So Bottom line he wins.

              Which game late in the season he almost lost, like the one against Baylor?? First off, sooners fan,, you should be grateful he beat, Baylor not once but twice for you guys.

              Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.


              This is tape of the 1st Baylor game, which they win with a field goal.

              They are dominated at the line of scrimmage on the offensive front early on and often. They can't contain nobody, I hardly call this kind of protection best in the nation. He brought team back from 28-3 to win the game. Granted the defense had held Baylor scoreless in the second half but offense need to score to win right, especially when you are behind 25 points.


              I am not going to argue against myself, that;s on you. I am going ahead and tell you what imo he does well.

              7:25 - redzone, shot gun formation. Take the snap, check down and read through he progression which is from left to right and find the TE for a TD. Like I said before his 2nd tier target has very high reception to TD ratio and you can see why. They aren't as talented or as polished, so you aren't beating peeps in the distance or with great route running, but you can out quick defense and catch. It is a systemic thing, it's by design to rely on go to in normal passing situation and spread on redzone and close distance situation. In addition, you don't throw a TD to a 3rd, 4th option guy without reading the first 3. Right?? It make sense.

              Also, look at how he checks down. Not rush, just going to through it and zip it in the window away from coverage. That is a sustainable play that can be replicate.

              10:40 - again, redzone. I don't want to type too much so I will just pick a few plays. He does his pre game snap read, which is one characteristics of a read option offense compare to how to read from under the center. Anyhow he motions the WR across. Ball snap, wr pull the CB away from the TE and he goes throw his read, WR cover, 2nd read TE open; throw across his body, TD. Again, going through his motion and stay calm and collective from his pre snap count to spread out the defense to looking off the CB and come back to his original target, which he try to free up right from the get go. That's another sustainable play call that can be repeated.

              There is one thing that i would agree with you, he does have a fumbling issue and that's need to be adjusted. He almost did not complete the come back. I wouldn't necessarily call it "He almost lost it" because he got to bring them back to almost lose it again in the first place.
              Hurts looked like complete garbage the first half against Baylor. He did tons of stuff that you exactly don't want to see in an NFL prospect. Lots of easy outlet passes and scrambles in the comeback - nothing special.

              His performance in the Baylor game gave me huge doubts about Hurst as a solid NFL qb.

              Comment

              • powderblueboy
                Registered Charger Fan
                • Jul 2017
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                #67
                Originally posted by DerekReed98 View Post

                I personally don’t like to rank them but instead put them into groups.
                G1
                Burrow, Tua.
                These 2 come with question marks like Burrows one year wonder and obviously Tua has major injury history. But the on field abilities can’t be denied.
                G2
                Herbert, Eason, Love.
                Herbert has a nice combination of size, arm strength and athleticism. I believe Oregon’s scheme actually slowed his development and he should grow considerably when put around a more normal style offense. A Academic All American he’s obviously a smart kid and worth betting on.

                Eason May very well have the nicest throwing ability in this draft along with ideal size. He can really sling it. His biggest issues I believe comes from his inexperience as he struggles with pressure and is slow on his reads which can cause him to make some really bad throws. He’s still getting a feel for the game. Which I believe will come with time. Not a very athletic guy either tbh.

                Love Has the ideal physical build and arm, but comes with the biggest question marks. Who is he? Some will say he can’t succeed because his latest year was bad where he had to many turnovers. But he lost his top 2 WR, his RB, his entire line and his head coach. Can you really blame him for not being as good as his previous year when he had more turnover then basically every QB ever. Also you can’t just sweep his previous year where he was making plays and SAFE with the football under the rug. He has the tools, but also needs the right situation.

                So those are my top QB’s, I would not mind drafting whoever they believe their guy is. Just hope they make sure the one they truly want is the one that gets picked.
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                Eason had only one year in Chris Peterson's offense, and Peterson ran a complex offense by college standards. That will slow down your decision making under pressure.

                He didn't have many tools to work with either: best receiver was a mediocre tight end.

                I hope New England doesn't grab him at #21. They can take Love/Hurst if they like.

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                • gzubeck
                  Ines Sainz = Jet Bait!
                  • Jan 2019
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                  #68
                  Originally posted by powderblueboy View Post

                  Hurts looked like complete garbage the first half against Baylor. He did tons of stuff that you exactly don't want to see in an NFL prospect. Lots of easy outlet passes and scrambles in the comeback - nothing special.

                  His performance in the Baylor game gave me huge doubts about Hurst as a solid NFL qb.
                  This is like two strangers seeing the same thing and drawing completely different conclusions. Hurts was scrambling for his life against the Baylor defenders. This was not a walk in the park for hurts.
                  Chiefs won the Superbowl with 10 Rookies....

                  "Locked, Cocked, and ready to Rock!" Jim Harbaugh

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                  • powderblueboy
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                    • Jul 2017
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                    #69
                    Originally posted by gzubeck View Post

                    This is like two strangers seeing the same thing and drawing completely different conclusions. Hurts was scrambling for his life against the Baylor defenders. This was not a walk in the park for hurts.
                    Dammit! Now i have to go watch it again. If memory serves me, on several occasions he got sacked trying to run with the football instead of moving up in the pocket to buy time. That thoroughly turned me off to Hurts. Its not just his issue with tucking and running when first pressured, it's having no idea where he should slide to under duress. Its a habit he won't break as a pro.

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                    • gzubeck
                      Ines Sainz = Jet Bait!
                      • Jan 2019
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                      #70
                      Originally posted by powderblueboy View Post

                      Dammit! Now i have to go watch it again. If memory serves me, on several occasions he got sacked trying to run with the football instead of moving up in the pocket to buy time. That thoroughly turned me off to Hurts. Its not just his issue with tucking and running when first pressured, it's having no idea where he should slide to under duress. Its a habit he won't break as a pro.
                      I think whats bothering you is the turnovers in the red zone. His height and loosy goosey with the football are his negatives. He reminds me of russel wilson in some ways.
                      Chiefs won the Superbowl with 10 Rookies....

                      "Locked, Cocked, and ready to Rock!" Jim Harbaugh

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                      • JOJAX85
                        Registered Charger Fan
                        • Sep 2018
                        • 1625
                        • Irmo, SC
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                        #71
                        Originally posted by gzubeck View Post

                        This is like two strangers seeing the same thing and drawing completely different conclusions. Hurts was scrambling for his life against the Baylor defenders. This was not a walk in the park for hurts.
                        Yeh, the 1st half that Baylor D looked like the '85 Bears. OU held the ball the entire 2nd Half at they just got absolutely gassed.

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                        • gzubeck
                          Ines Sainz = Jet Bait!
                          • Jan 2019
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                          #72
                          Originally posted by JOJAX85 View Post

                          Yeh, the 1st half that Baylor D looked like the '85 Bears. OU held the ball the entire 2nd Half at they just got absolutely gassed.
                          Rope a dope! LOL!
                          Chiefs won the Superbowl with 10 Rookies....

                          "Locked, Cocked, and ready to Rock!" Jim Harbaugh

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