The Move To L.A.....3 Years On

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  • WindsorUK
    Registered Charger Fan
    • Jul 2013
    • 5376
    • Windsor, U.K.
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    #13
    Cool to see another fan from the UK here at TPB!
    Welcome.
    I am first and foremost a San Diego Charger fan. If SD, ever gets a team, I'll drop these dudes like a hot potato.
    The owners of this franchise have done absolutely ZERO to engender loyalty to their product, instead ripping the guts out of a community that had supported them for over 50 years. I get it though, owners thought it was the right move financially( I assume one day it will but after almost 4 years, hasn't happened yet) and SD didn't really make a solid play for them to stay.
    I'm relatively happy to support this group as it's fun watching Herbert become a future star and actually give our team a chance to win going forward( that success, of course, hinges on our managements ability to build the right team around him)

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    • Boltnut
      Registered Charger Fan
      • Feb 2019
      • 5397
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      #14
      Great question Tom... I suspect you're looking for historical context here.

      Money: American football owners' are loyal to the almighty dollar first... and their fans second. They'll move their team in a New-York minute if they think it will make them money. From Baltimore to Indianapolis... Cleveland to Baltimore... Houston to Nashville... Oakland to LA (and back again) to Las Vegas... St. Louis to Arizona... LA to St. Louis (and back again)... In almost every case, the "new" city will build a new stadium (at tax-payers expense) and increase the owner's franchise worth. These moves have made millionaires into billionaires. Screwing loyal fans is not new. Screwing taxpayers isn't new.

      Rivalry: LA vs. San Diego. It's not much of a rivalry... SD has always been LA's red-headed step child. LA has always had a bigger budget, more people, and better teams. Clippers/Rockets vs. Lakers... Padres vs. Dodgers. Kings vs. Gulls... and until the NFL salary cap... Chargers vs. Rams/Raiders. Every time you had a handful of young superstars (and a competitive team) your team would be dismantled and sold off to the highest bidder (Ozzy Smith, Dave Winfield, Roberto Alomar, Benito Santiago, Gary Johnson, Fred Dean, John Jefferson, Kevin Brown, Adrian Gonzalez... the list goes on and on...). The only player I can remember turning down money for loyalty was Tony Gwynn (Mr. Padre). That's why he got a statue outside the new park. If it wasn't the Dodgers stealing your young studs, then it was the Yankees, or the Red Sox, or the Giants, or the 49ers, or the Packers, or the... it's exhausting! So when Spanos decided to move (and to LA, no less!)... well, most of the long-time Chargers fans had had enough. Long-time SD fans are a very loyal bunch. But when you get the short-end of the stick over and over again... some decided to shove that stick right back up someone's ass!

      Many will tell you that SD fans aren't loyal... that they're "fair-weather". As a SD native, I can tell you that's absolute bullshit. Most of these Powder Blue posters aren't SD natives. There are very few natives left. The city has grown from a smaller town (400,000 in the 60's/70's) to a much larger town (2.5 million w/surrounding suburbs). With this building explosion, property prices have soared and open spaces have shrunk. Many SD natives have moved away and been replaced by transplants. Transplants that have no interest in football or brought other-team loyalties with them. But find an older, native San Diegan and they'll talk your ear off about the Chargers of the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's... or '84 and '94 Padres. Very knowledgable, very loyal... and extremely un-appreciated.

      Me... I'm depressed every time I drive by the empty "Murph". I'm sad every time training camp opens and I'm unable to drive over to watch the practices. I miss tail-gating in the parking lot with my friends at the Murph on Sundays. Part of my traditions have been stolen from me. For that, I will never forgive the Spanos family. For that, I will never spend a single penny on NFL merchandise. I'll watch the Chargers on TV most Sunday's. But it's not the same. If I have better things to do, don't expect my loyalty. This last Sunday, I missed the game. I spent my time exploring the desert on a quad and camping with my family and friends. There are more important things... and I owe no loyalty to people who show no loyalty...
      Last edited by Boltnut; 11-09-2020, 06:57 PM.

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      • Boltjolt
        Dont let the PBs fool ya
        • Jun 2013
        • 26263
        • Henderson, NV
        • Send PM

        #15
        Originally posted by Boltnut View Post
        Great question Tom... I suspect you're looking for historical context here.

        Money: American football owners' are loyal to the almighty dollar first... and their fans second. They'll move their team in a New-York minute if they think it will make them money. From Baltimore to Indianapolis... Cleveland to Baltimore... Houston to Nashville... Oakland to LA (and back again) to Las Vegas... St. Louis to Arizona... LA to St. Louis (and back again)... In almost every case, the "new" city will build a new stadium (at tax-payers expense) and increase the owner's franchise worth. These moves have made millionaires into billionaires. Screwing loyal fans is not new. Screwing taxpayers isn't new.

        Rivalry: LA vs. San Diego. It's not much of a rivalry... SD has always been LA's red-headed step child. LA has always had a bigger budget, more people, and better teams. Clippers/Rockets vs. Lakers... Padres vs. Dodgers. Kings vs. Gulls... and until the NFL salary cap... Chargers vs. Rams/Raiders. Every time you had a handful of young superstars (and a competitive team) your team would be dismantled and sold off to the highest bidder (Ozzy Smith, Dave Winfield, Roberto Alomar, Benito Santiago, Gary Johnson, Fred Dean, John Jefferson, Kevin Brown, Adrian Gonzalez... the list goes on and on...). The only player I can remember turning down money for loyalty was Tony Gwynn (Mr. Padre). That's why he got a statue outside the new park. If it wasn't the Dodgers stealing your young studs, then it was the Yankees, or the Red Sox, or the Giants, or the 49ers, or the Packers, or the... it's exhausting! So when Spanos decided to move (and to LA, no less!)... well, most of the long-time Chargers fans had had enough. Long-time SD fans are a very loyal bunch. But when you get the short-end of the stick over and over again... some decided to shove that stick right back up someone's ass!

        Many will tell you that SD fans aren't loyal... that they're "fair-weather". As a SD native, I can tell you that's absolute bullshit. Most of these Powder Blue posters aren't SD natives. There are very few natives left. The city has grown from a smaller town (400,000 in the 60's/70's) to a much larger town (2.5 million w/surrounding suburbs). With this building explosion, property prices have soared and open spaces have shrunk. Many SD natives have moved away and been replaced by transplants. Transplants that have no interest in football or brought other-team loyalties with them. But find an older, native San Diegan and they'll talk your ear off about the Chargers of the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's... or '84 and '94 Padres. Very knowledgable, very loyal... and extremely un-appreciated.

        Me... I'm depressed every time I drive by the empty "Murph". I'm sad every time training camp opens and I'm unable to drive over to watch the practices. I miss tail-gating in the parking lot with my friends at the Murph on Sundays. Part of my traditions have been stolen from me. For that, I will never forgive the Spanos family. For that, I will never spend a single penny on NFL merchandise. I'll watch the Chargers on TV most Sunday's. But it's not the same. If I have better things to do, don't expect my loyalty. This last Sunday, I missed the game. I spent my time exploring the desert on a quad and camping with my family and friends. There are more important things... and I owe no loyalty to people who show no loyalty...
        Hmm, well that's an interesting question.
        PollCat, Set it up.

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        • Velo
          Ride!
          • Aug 2019
          • 10816
          • Everywhere
          • Leave the gun, take the cannolis
          • Send PM

          #16
          Dean Spanos and the NFL wanted the taxpayers in San Diego to pay for a new stadium. The taxpayers said no. I was really sad to see the Chargers leave. But you can't blame taxpayers for their decision. There are so many other priorities. I didn't know if I would still be a fan of the team when they moved. But I have remained a fan. And now with Herbert, I may stay a fan for awhile.

          Comment

          • 21&500
            Bolt Spit-Baller
            • Sep 2018
            • 10381
            • A Whale's Vajayjay
            • CMB refugee
            • Send PM

            #17
            Originally posted by Velo View Post
            Dean Spanos and the NFL wanted the taxpayers in San Diego to pay for a new stadium. The taxpayers said no. I was really sad to see the Chargers leave. But you can't blame taxpayers for their decision. There are so many other priorities. I didn't know if I would still be a fan of the team when they moved. But I have remained a fan. And now with Herbert, I may stay a fan for awhile.
            misconception here based on wide spread propaganda
            It’s really important to note that prop C was asking out of town visitors who stayed at SD hotel to pay by increasing the hotel tax marginally
            and by marginally I mean a comparable amount you saw in various other similar cities at the time. The SD hotel tax at time was exceptionally low and continues to be. Hoteliers own the politicians.
            so no native San Diegan was asked to pay a dime, unless they rented out hotels, which some do I’m sure, but it’s rare.

            essentially, the Chargers asked for a very modern practice to build stadiums that minimized the capital they would have to subject to risk, and SD leaders spun it as “Spanos want taxpayers to build their stadium”
            this would have been from a completely different pot of money that goes into actual city owned infrastructure like roads and school etc
            SD choose to resist changing with the times, which is fine, but I can’t feel sorry for my own town following some of the most corrupt officials you’ll ever know
            coughkevinfoulconercough

            .005 Brock Bowers, TE/HB/SR Georgia
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            .140 Zak Zinter, OG Michigan
            .181 Nehemiah Pritchett, CB Auburn
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            • gzubeck
              Ines Sainz = Jet Bait!
              • Jan 2019
              • 5369
              • Tucson, AZ
              • Send PM

              #18
              Originally posted by 21&500 View Post

              misconception here based on wide spread propaganda
              It’s really important to note that prop C was asking out of town visitors who stayed at SD hotel to pay by increasing the hotel tax marginally
              and by marginally I mean a comparable amount you saw in various other similar cities at the time. The SD hotel tax at time was exceptionally low and continues to be. Hoteliers own the politicians.
              so no native San Diegan was asked to pay a dime, unless they rented out hotels, which some do I’m sure, but it’s rare.

              essentially, the Chargers asked for a very modern practice to build stadiums that minimized the capital they would have to subject to risk, and SD leaders spun it as “Spanos want taxpayers to build their stadium”
              this would have been from a completely different pot of money that goes into actual city owned infrastructure like roads and school etc
              SD choose to resist changing with the times, which is fine, but I can’t feel sorry for my own town following some of the most corrupt officials you’ll ever know
              coughkevinfoulconercough
              That's a lot of hotel tax to pay for marginal benefits to hotel owners. I would think there would eventually be some kind of subsidies eventually added on by non hotels. Anyway, we don't have to worry about it as the sticker shock for Sofi comes in. There might have been problems by the midway point if there we're cost over runs. Who pays for it? You got it...taxpayers.
              Chiefs won the Superbowl with 10 Rookies....

              "Locked, Cocked, and ready to Rock!" Jim Harbaugh

              Comment

              • jubei
                Vagabond Ninja
                • Feb 2019
                • 1796
                • Send PM

                #19
                yeah I still love SD and consider it my hometown. but those crooked politicians...and also didnt they do some shady shit with pensions?

                Comment

                • Boltjolt
                  Dont let the PBs fool ya
                  • Jun 2013
                  • 26263
                  • Henderson, NV
                  • Send PM

                  #20
                  Allegiant stadium was built with 750 million worth of hotel taxes. Wouldn't it be nice to have visitors of other sports teams funding that? Sure beats tax payers forking it over.

                  SD has always been run by idiots. What was that females name whose husband was a crooked bastard and she was I think the mayor? Golding or something. Am I even close?
                  Last edited by Boltjolt; 11-09-2020, 10:52 PM.

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                  • gzubeck
                    Ines Sainz = Jet Bait!
                    • Jan 2019
                    • 5369
                    • Tucson, AZ
                    • Send PM

                    #21
                    Originally posted by Boltjolt View Post
                    Allegiant stadium was built with 750 million worth of hotel taxes. Wouldn't it be nice to have visitors of other sports teams funding that? Sure beats tax payers forking it over.

                    SD has always been run by idiots. What was that females name whose husband's was a crooked bastard and she was I think the mayor? Golding or something. Am I even close?
                    Man, that takes me back in time...that's gotta be decades ago,,, Susan Golding 1992-2000 mayor.
                    Chiefs won the Superbowl with 10 Rookies....

                    "Locked, Cocked, and ready to Rock!" Jim Harbaugh

                    Comment

                    • like54ninjas
                      Registered Charger Fan
                      • Oct 2017
                      • 8211
                      • Great White North
                      • Draftnik
                      • Send PM

                      #22
                      Originally posted by Velo View Post
                      Dean Spanos and the NFL wanted the taxpayers in San Diego to pay for a new stadium. The taxpayers said no. I was really sad to see the Chargers leave. But you can't blame taxpayers for their decision. There are so many other priorities. I didn't know if I would still be a fan of the team when they moved. But I have remained a fan. And now with Herbert, I may stay a fan for awhile.
                      Taxpayer funded stadium or a tax on hotel room rates?
                      So do the SD taxpayers really pay or do vacationers, visiting fans, and corporate events truly pay for it?
                      This is the same model that keeps NV and FL non-personal income tax states.
                      The city would have been responsible for $200-$300 million for infrastructure improvements which benefit the populous.
                      I despise corporate welfare but taxes spent on public infrastructure is money well spent.
                      My 2021 Adopt-A-Bolt List

                      MikeDub
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                      • Hard Charger
                        Chargers fan since 1977!
                        • Jun 2013
                        • 295
                        • Send PM

                        #23
                        Hi Tom,

                        Welcome to the forum! There is a ton of knowledgeable fans here that really get deep in to how the game is played. I have learned a lot from these guys and have been a Chargers fan since ‘77, or so. I am not a native San Diegan, but the move still killed me inside. I will probably always be a Chargers fan, though sometimes it’s tough! If I had a magic wand I would make two things a priority change. 1 - I would move them back to SD, 2 - I would stop all of the injuries, plus a few other things.

                        If you want to learn about American Football, this is the place, if you enjoy being a Charger fan, this is the place.

                        Enjoy your stay...

                        HC

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                        • PhilaBoltster
                          Registered Charger Fan
                          • Mar 2019
                          • 368
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                          #24
                          Tom, you’re going to find a lot of different answers to your questions. Depending on who you ask.

                          Myself, it’s a love-hate relationship. I used to love the team, and it’s too difficult to stop rooting for them, and keep following them as much as I used to. But I hate that they moved, hate the owners, hate every time I hear the name Los Angeles associated with them, and hate the league for allowing them to move. I wear my San Diego Chargers t-shirts on occasion, but I will never own anything that says Los Angeles. I refuse to give the NFL another cent of my money, I cancelled the NFL package on DirecTV and won’t buy anything NFL related. I always root for them to win but when they lose I find solace that they are failing in LA because the ownership deserves it. Even if they won the Super Bowl it would be very bittersweet because it should have happened in San Diego. I would rather they suffer 20 years in a row of losing seasons if that meant they would return to San Diego, although I know that is not realistic. And I’m not even from the west coast.

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