Over Under on Melvin Ingram Sacks

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  • PR#1
    Registered Charger Fan
    • Aug 2019
    • 1078
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    #13
    Probably more important than sacks is QB pressures. Forcing the qb into bad throws before he is ready to throw.

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    • Boltjolt
      Dont let the PBs fool ya
      • Jun 2013
      • 26251
      • Henderson, NV
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      #14
      Originally posted by PR#1 View Post
      Probably more important than sacks is QB pressures. Forcing the qb into bad throws before he is ready to throw.
      He doesnt do that often enough either....or even hit the QB very often. He had 12 QB hits last season compared to 31 for Bosa and 37 for Z'Darius Smith. EDGE rusher is a priority next draft while we wave goodbye to Melvin and collect a comp pick while somebody else overpays for him.

      The problem is Melvin is being paid as a DE/pass rusher. If he is franchised(which i doubt he will be) he will get paid going by a pass rusher scale ave. True that isnt the only thing that is important but that is his primary job along with run defense. We only had 30 sacks last season which isnt good and we cant pay a guy big money who isnt playing up to big money.
      Last edited by Boltjolt; 05-10-2020, 02:18 PM.

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      • Panamamike
        Registered Charger Fan
        • Jun 2013
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        #15
        I don't care how many he has. I don't pay up for a guy that will be 32 yr 1 of new deal.

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        • Topcat
          AKA "Pollcat"
          • Jan 2019
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          #16
          Originally posted by Panamamike View Post
          I don't care how many he has. I don't pay up for a guy that will be 32 yr 1 of new deal.
          As we ponder whether to sign Ingram to a big contract, keep this one in mind:

          image.png
          Donald Butler earned his way to a new contract. Tom Telesco was right to sign him to that deal in 2014.

          Of course, Butler being released two years later makes the Butler pact another offseason loss for Telesco. But it’s difficult to look back and say the Chargers general manager should have known Butler was the kind of guy who was going to pack it in after padding his bank account.

          Butler was a defensive captain the year before getting his contract. He was smart and instinctual and aggressive. He made a hustle play in the 2013 playoffs that will remain one of the franchise’s finest postseason moments.

          But the lasting image of Butler is that of a thief. He robbed Telesco and the Chargers. It’s difficult, in fact, to understand how a man with any pride could even have shown up at Chargers Park the past year or so with as much as Butler stole from the team.

          It takes a lot of nerve to pontificate about a professional athlete quitting.

          I’ve done it only once before. I feel just as confident doing it now.

          Butler’s larceny over the past two seasons was the second-most egregious example of a high-rent player quitting on the Chargers after only what Jared Gaither did in 2012.

          David Boston took $12 million for one season of decent production and methodical destruction. (That’s 2003 dollars, so consider it more than $15 million had it been for 2015.) The Chargers paid about $17 million in 2015 dollars to waste the second overall pick and set the franchise back at least three years when they drafted Ryan Leaf in 1998.

          Those are greater whiffs by the team. Whereas, what Butler and Gaither perpetrated was fraud.

          Butler got $15.5 million of the $51.8 million contract he signed after the 2013 season. A desperate Chargers brass gave Gaither $13.5 million guaranteed for what turned out to be four games in one season.

          Butler at least started 22 games and played some 1,200 snaps the past two seasons.

          Played, however, is a generous assessment.

          Watch the film. It’s like Butler lost interest. A guy who was a playmaker, a hustler, on the verge of being a ballhawk, started going the wrong way, stopping, sometimes hardly starting. There were a few games after which his uniform might have actually been clean.

          He was out of shape in 2014. Yes, the year after realizing the big bucks, he came in fat and slow.

          To his credit, he worked hard the next offseason, got lean and quick, and seemed ready to regain some of his playmaking form in ’15. But a combination of the team having all but given up on him by that time and his own inability to truly assert himself on the field made it a foregone conclusion that Thursday would happen.

          It shouldn’t have, but it had to.

          https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...r03-story.html



          Last edited by Topcat; 05-10-2020, 10:19 AM.

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          • gzubeck
            Ines Sainz = Jet Bait!
            • Jan 2019
            • 5366
            • Tucson, AZ
            • Send PM

            #17
            Originally posted by Topcat View Post

            As we ponder whether to sign Ingram to a big contract, keep this one in mind:

            image.png
            Donald Butler earned his way to a new contract. Tom Telesco was right to sign him to that deal in 2014.

            Of course, Butler being released two years later makes the Butler pact another offseason loss for Telesco. But it’s difficult to look back and say the Chargers general manager should have known Butler was the kind of guy who was going to pack it in after padding his bank account.

            Butler was a defensive captain the year before getting his contract. He was smart and instinctual and aggressive. He made a hustle play in the 2013 playoffs that will remain one of the franchise’s finest postseason moments.

            But the lasting image of Butler is that of a thief. He robbed Telesco and the Chargers. It’s difficult, in fact, to understand how a man with any pride could even have shown up at Chargers Park the past year or so with as much as Butler stole from the team.

            It takes a lot of nerve to pontificate about a professional athlete quitting.

            I’ve done it only once before. I feel just as confident doing it now.

            Butler’s larceny over the past two seasons was the second-most egregious example of a high-rent player quitting on the Chargers after only what Jared Gaither did in 2012.

            David Boston took $12 million for one season of decent production and methodical destruction. (That’s 2003 dollars, so consider it more than $15 million had it been for 2015.) The Chargers paid about $17 million in 2015 dollars to waste the second overall pick and set the franchise back at least three years when they drafted Ryan Leaf in 1998.

            Those are greater whiffs by the team. Whereas, what Butler and Gaither perpetrated was fraud.

            Butler got $15.5 million of the $51.8 million contract he signed after the 2013 season. A desperate Chargers brass gave Gaither $13.5 million guaranteed for what turned out to be four games in one season.

            Butler at least started 22 games and played some 1,200 snaps the past two seasons.

            Played, however, is a generous assessment.

            Watch the film. It’s like Butler lost interest. A guy who was a playmaker, a hustler, on the verge of being a ballhawk, started going the wrong way, stopping, sometimes hardly starting. There were a few games after which his uniform might have actually been clean.

            He was out of shape in 2014. Yes, the year after realizing the big bucks, he came in fat and slow.

            To his credit, he worked hard the next offseason, got lean and quick, and seemed ready to regain some of his playmaking form in ’15. But a combination of the team having all but given up on him by that time and his own inability to truly assert himself on the field made it a foregone conclusion that Thursday would happen.

            It shouldn’t have, but it had to.

            https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...r03-story.html


            I don't think Ingram is anywhere near Butler territory but at the same time he's not worth $16 mil a year. I hope he shows up for the season and maybe gets picked up by another team so we get a second rounder out of him. Once players have $20 mill in the bank and they get all that guaranteed money everyone is suspect!
            Chiefs won the Superbowl with 10 Rookies....

            "Locked, Cocked, and ready to Rock!" Jim Harbaugh

            Comment

            • Charge!
              Registered Charger Fan
              • Aug 2019
              • 7262
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              #18
              Originally posted by Paradoxrip View Post
              On June 11, 2017, Ingram signed a four-year, $66 million contract with $42 million guaranteed with the Chargers.

              It will be his 10th season. He has had 2 seasons with double digit sacks in his career. Both 10.5 (2015,2017)

              He is averaging 5.3 sacks per year. With the 42 million guaranteed only. That is about 8 million per sack.

              How many sacks will Melvin Ingram need for the Chargers to offer him another contract?
              hmmm.....based on the numbers you provided, 42 million for 4 years is 10.5 million per year...... so at 5 sacks per year equals about 2 million per sack.....still alot of money but not 8.... lol

              math correction aside, pressures are far more important than sacks...... Bosa only gets around 10+ sacks per year but he is still very disruptive with alot of pressures..... and he affects how offenses design and call plays......

              I doubt Ingram gets resigned because he is starting to get up in years and it will likely be time to move on for a younger less expensive player....

              Comment

              • Charge!
                Registered Charger Fan
                • Aug 2019
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                • Send PM

                #19
                Originally posted by gzubeck View Post

                I don't think Ingram is anywhere near Butler territory but at the same time he's not worth $16 mil a year. I hope he shows up for the season and maybe gets picked up by another team so we get a second rounder out of him. Once players have $20 mill in the bank and they get all that guaranteed money everyone is suspect!
                I agree.... Ingram appears to be a 100 percent effort guy and he is still a good player, just not maybe a great one.... ..... butler avoided all contact after getting his money....... no where close to the same......

                Comment

                • Charge!
                  Registered Charger Fan
                  • Aug 2019
                  • 7262
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                  #20
                  clowney is an example of a guy who gets pressures but rarely gets sacks.....

                  Comment

                  • SuperCharged
                    Registered Charger Fan
                    • Sep 2019
                    • 1716
                    • Utah
                    • Midnight Toker
                    • Send PM

                    #21
                    Originally posted by Charge! View Post

                    hmmm.....based on the numbers you provided, 42 million for 4 years is 10.5 million per year...... so at 5 sacks per year equals about 2 million per sack.....still alot of money but not 8.... lol

                    math correction aside, pressures are far more important than sacks...... Bosa only gets around 10+ sacks per year but he is still very disruptive with alot of pressures..... and he affects how offenses design and call plays......

                    I doubt Ingram gets resigned because he is starting to get up in years and it will likely be time to move on for a younger less expensive player....
                    LOL yes thanks for the math correction. . :whistlin:

                    However, I still believe Melvin is gone after this season if there is one. Pressures are a definite factor for and edge rusher. I didn't see much of that either.

                    Comment

                    • Panamamike
                      Registered Charger Fan
                      • Jun 2013
                      • 4141
                      • Send PM

                      #22
                      Originally posted by Topcat View Post

                      As we ponder whether to sign Ingram to a big contract, keep this one in mind:

                      image.png
                      Donald Butler earned his way to a new contract. Tom Telesco was right to sign him to that deal in 2014.

                      Of course, Butler being released two years later makes the Butler pact another offseason loss for Telesco. But it’s difficult to look back and say the Chargers general manager should have known Butler was the kind of guy who was going to pack it in after padding his bank account.

                      Butler was a defensive captain the year before getting his contract. He was smart and instinctual and aggressive. He made a hustle play in the 2013 playoffs that will remain one of the franchise’s finest postseason moments.

                      But the lasting image of Butler is that of a thief. He robbed Telesco and the Chargers. It’s difficult, in fact, to understand how a man with any pride could even have shown up at Chargers Park the past year or so with as much as Butler stole from the team.

                      It takes a lot of nerve to pontificate about a professional athlete quitting.

                      I’ve done it only once before. I feel just as confident doing it now.

                      Butler’s larceny over the past two seasons was the second-most egregious example of a high-rent player quitting on the Chargers after only what Jared Gaither did in 2012.

                      David Boston took $12 million for one season of decent production and methodical destruction. (That’s 2003 dollars, so consider it more than $15 million had it been for 2015.) The Chargers paid about $17 million in 2015 dollars to waste the second overall pick and set the franchise back at least three years when they drafted Ryan Leaf in 1998.

                      Those are greater whiffs by the team. Whereas, what Butler and Gaither perpetrated was fraud.

                      Butler got $15.5 million of the $51.8 million contract he signed after the 2013 season. A desperate Chargers brass gave Gaither $13.5 million guaranteed for what turned out to be four games in one season.

                      Butler at least started 22 games and played some 1,200 snaps the past two seasons.

                      Played, however, is a generous assessment.

                      Watch the film. It’s like Butler lost interest. A guy who was a playmaker, a hustler, on the verge of being a ballhawk, started going the wrong way, stopping, sometimes hardly starting. There were a few games after which his uniform might have actually been clean.

                      He was out of shape in 2014. Yes, the year after realizing the big bucks, he came in fat and slow.

                      To his credit, he worked hard the next offseason, got lean and quick, and seemed ready to regain some of his playmaking form in ’15. But a combination of the team having all but given up on him by that time and his own inability to truly assert himself on the field made it a foregone conclusion that Thursday would happen.

                      It shouldn’t have, but it had to.

                      https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...r03-story.html


                      Nah. No comparison IMO. Mel has already gotten paid. He has not shown to be a lazy guy, plays hard. I just don't pay up for 32 y old edge rushers. In that age group i would look for 1 yr prove it deals for cap casualty players you think still have a yr or 2 of solid production potential.

                      Comment

                      • Topcat
                        AKA "Pollcat"
                        • Jan 2019
                        • 17402
                        • Send PM

                        #23
                        Originally posted by Panamamike View Post

                        Nah. No comparison IMO. Mel has already gotten paid. He has not shown to be a lazy guy, plays hard. I just don't pay up for 32 y old edge rushers. In that age group i would look for 1 yr prove it deals for cap casualty players you think still have a yr or 2 of solid production potential.
                        Okay, I'll play. I wouldn't mind a one year extension, with an option for another year, at a team-friendly price. That's about as far as the train stops for SupaMel...Meanwhile, we draft his replacement who rotates in and out with Mel to keep him a bit fresher so he plays a bit harder...

                        Comment

                        • Topcat
                          AKA "Pollcat"
                          • Jan 2019
                          • 17402
                          • Send PM

                          #24
                          Originally posted by gzubeck View Post

                          I don't think Ingram is anywhere near Butler territory but at the same time he's not worth $16 mil a year. I hope he shows up for the season and maybe gets picked up by another team so we get a second rounder out of him. Once players have $20 mill in the bank and they get all that guaranteed money everyone is suspect!
                          Well, u can always dream...we'll be lucky to get a 4th round comp pick for Mel...
                          Last edited by Topcat; 05-11-2020, 06:09 AM.

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