Could Herbert, Burrow and Tua Tagovailoa be the best trio

[powderblueboy]

Don’t sleep on Murray, Jones and Haskins from the 2019 class
Or do, nothing to see there.

The Colts are reportedly pleased with Jacob Eason from the 2020 class

[chris9341]

horseface elway

That is the best description of Elway ive heard. It was so frustrating watching him play and his horse teeth showing all the time. I remember games when he would be making a pass and he would smiling with his horse teeth.

[MakoShark]

That is the best description of Elway ive heard. It was so frustrating watching him play and his horse teeth showing all the time. I remember games when he would be making a pass and he would smiling with his horse teeth.

He wasn't smiling...he just didn't have enough lips to cover those tusks. :biggrin:

[Boltjolt]

I was talking more about QB competition. Herbert has gone up against Mahomes, Brady and Brees in three of his four career starts.

They don't play each other so that doesn't apply. It's a team game.
I'm always dumbfounded by those who say it's Herbert vs Brady, etc.
Doesn't it make more sense to say Burrow went up against two top 5 defenses the past 2 weeks?
Or do you need to throw in he played against last year's MVP and a HOF'er?....for which Lamar and Phil didn't play defense.

[21&500]

They don't play each other so that doesn't apply. It's a team game.
I'm always dumbfounded by those who say it's Herbert vs Brady, etc.
Doesn't it make more sense to say Burrow went up against two top 5 defenses the past 2 weeks?
Or do you need to throw in he played against last year's MVP and a HOF'er?....for which Lamar and Phil didn't play defense.

Agree to a point
psychologically I have no doubt that who plays qb
on the other side, matters
at least according to a few former pros who’ve said as much during interviews (sorry can’t remember who, I want to say Jim Kelly)
remember Cam Newton in the superbowl?
he was playing against that Broncos D AND Peyton Manning’s ghost
so badly did he want to pass his way to a victory that he forgot what got him there, his legs.
imo Herbert performing well against the KC defense while knowing your future rival/best qb in the world is watching you, speaks volumes about his poise, confidence and competitiveness
same against the Bucs/Goat
same against the saints/HOFer Brees that’s forever tied to the Chargers qb
not only is the physical game not too big for JH
it looks like the mental hurdles are manageable as well

[Velo]

They don't play each other so that doesn't apply. It's a team game.
I'm always dumbfounded by those who say it's Herbert vs Brady, etc.
Doesn't it make more sense to say Burrow went up against two top 5 defenses the past 2 weeks?
Or do you need to throw in he played against last year's MVP and a HOF'er?....for which Lamar and Phil didn't play defense.

When you are playing against prolific QBs who are one and two in all time TD passes, it puts pressure on you as a QB to stay on pace with them. That is what is meant by Herbert v. Brees and Herbert v. Brady. And Herbert was as good as either of them.

[Boltjolt]

You still have to beat their defense. I dont care who the other QB is.
Not buying it. The QB matchup is a hype brought on by the media.

More accurate would be to say Brees' Saints go against Herberts Chargers instead of saying Herbert vs Brees because there is zero interaction between the 2 QBs during the game. It's not a "competition" against each other as you called it

[gzubeck]

The Colts are reportedly pleased with Jacob Eason from the 2020 class

yup. Sleeper candidate and should be ready after another year of rivers.

[21&500]

You still have to beat their defense. I dont care who the other QB is.
Not buying it. The QB matchup is a hype brought on by the media.

More accurate would be to say Brees' Saints go against Herberts Chargers instead of saying Herbert vs Brees because there is zero interaction between the 2 QBs during the game. It's not a "competition" against each other as you called it

Can’t it be both? Accurate yes, but to say there’s no effect at all is naive
There is real and perceived pressure
I think athletes are constantly being coaches to control what they can and not what they can’t
I think they do that because there’s a natural tendency to take on more responsibility than what’s theirs
Herbert can’t do anything on defense, but he knows PM can explode at anytime, so theres pressure to score.
a fitting comp would be a pitcher
full count, bases empty
vs
full count bases loaded

pressure is on.
Go Rays!

[Guest]

Did I just read that Philip Rivers is/was a better QB than John Elway? Now I think I've seen everything on this board.

And that is exactly the problem that I am talking about. Elway is substantially overrated and Rivers is substantially underrated.

Now, I would be the first to acknowledge that the game has changed over the years and has been increasingly more favorable to the passing attack in later years. So, I do not think you can declare Rivers as being better simply because he is better in both total production and quality of production by a blowout margin. So, simply realizing that Rivers clearly is better in completion percentage, passing yards, YPA, TDs, total INTs, INT%, TD%, QB rating, yards per game, et cetera, does not tell the whole story.

So, here is a series of numbers for you: 27, 17, 17, 11, 11, 18, 17, 14, 10, 20, 3, 4, 14, 4, 7 and 5. What do the numbers represent? They represent where John Elway ranked in passer rating in each of his seasons as a starter. That is a straight comparison of John Elway to his peers during his era.

Undertaking the same task for Rivers in his era yields 8, 18, 1, 3, 2, 11, 11, 4, 12, 12, 19, 9, 5, 17 with this year being in progress.

Which QB seems to have done better versus his own peers and in his own time? Clearly, Rivers has done better in his era than Elway did in his. Elway had 10 of 16 seasons ranked outside of the top 10 and no finish higher than ranked third. His lowest season is ranked 27th. Rivers has 7 seasons of 14 as a starter ranked outside the top 10 with this season still in progress. His top finish is #1 overall and he has individual seasons in which he has ranked #2, #3, #4 and #5 overall to go along with the #1 overall finish.

So, in fewer seasons, Rivers has more top 5 seasons, more top 10 seasons, a higher ceiling and a higher floor.

Look, I get it, I watched Elway over his entire career. He was mobile. He had a rocket arm. His teams did well. These are all things that I think make people think highly of a player, but that actually do not prove what the player did. And Rivers, by contrast, is comparatively unathletic, has a lesser arm and had some teams that did not do well.

But at the end of the day, a player is what his numbers say he is. So, the fact that Elway was inaccurate (56.9% career completion percentage) even in his own era, matters. His TD% was significantly lower than either Marino's or Kelly's. And while Elway had a better INT% than Kelly, his INT% was slightly worse than Marino's. Elway's career QB rating is only 79.9. That is less than Fouts' career QB rating and Fouts played in some brutal seasons before the adoption of the Mel Blount rule. Elway's career QB rating is less than the career QB rating of Marino and Kelly. Heck, Elway's career QB rating is less than fellow 1983 QB draft class member Ken O'Brien's career QB rating.

The point is that Elway was physically gifted, but not that great of a passer and it seems like just about everyone misses that point. Some even take the completely indefensible position that Elway was somehow better than Marino, which is just crazy talk, but goes to demonstrate just how overrated Elway is.

[Guest]

I think everyone who watched Elway play could agree that he was not a stat machine like some QB's are or were. If you look at Elway's career from a statistical point of view he was a pretty good QB.

If you watched him play in person you know how great he was. His clutch QB play was some of the best ever. He took some really terrible Bronco teams to the SB by his will alone (the Broncos were exposed by some great 49 and Redskins teams) but Elway's play was incredible. As a Charger fan I hated him like no other but you have to respect his greatness, especially looking back on it now that he is not playing. Its like growing up as a Laker fan I hated Larry Bird but now looking back I can appreciate his greatness much more than I did at the time I was rooting against him for so long.

I watched Elway throughout his career. I agree with part of what you have said. Elway did not have the greatest of stats--I agree with that part.

But I disagree entirely with the notion of "clutch" as being somehow an analytical factor. A statistically better QB would not have needed a "clutch" performance. The game would have already been well in hand. Elway's stats do tell the story. He needed late comebacks because he was not good enough to put games away earlier. If Elway had been good most of the time and great in the clutch, his stats would reflect that. They do not.

It is like the undefeated Patriots and the GIants in the Super Bowl. The Giants' defense stymied the Patriots for just about the entire game. A better QB, one who had not played one of the worst Super Bowls ever through three quarters, would not have needed two fourth quarter TDs to secure a narrow victory. But once the Giants got the win, Eli was somehow a great QB. But look at his stats for the whole game. He was thoroughly average, not even good, much less great.

[FoutsFan]

I watched Elway throughout his career. I agree with part of what you have said. Elway did not have the greatest of stats--I agree with that part.

But I disagree entirely with the notion of "clutch" as being somehow an analytical factor. A statistically better QB would not have needed a "clutch" performance. The game would have already been well in hand. Elway's stats do tell the story. He needed late comebacks because he was not good enough to put games away earlier. If Elway had been good most of the time and great in the clutch, his stats would reflect that. They do not.

It is like the undefeated Patriots and the GIants in the Super Bowl. The Giants' defense stymied the Patriots for just about the entire game. A better QB, one who had not played one of the worst Super Bowls ever through three quarters, would not have needed two fourth quarter TDs to secure a narrow victory. But once the Giants got the win, Eli was somehow a great QB. But look at his stats for the whole game. He was thoroughly average, not even good, much less great.

The majority of Elways career except for his last couple of seasons his Bronco teams were garbage. No line, no running g backs (Samy Winder is not a name that pops up often when football fans get together) no wide relievers a d their defense was below average at best. So yea Elway needed to play hero all the time because he carried a 6-10 team to the playoffs and SB year after year. I cannot stand him, he een played at my HS's main rival Grenada Hills high. But I can admit greatness when I see it even if it is begrudgingly.