2019-2020 Draft Picks Not Contributing

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  • Boltjolt
    Dont let the PBs fool ya
    • Jun 2013
    • 26263
    • Henderson, NV
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    #13
    Originally posted by Velo View Post

    I didn't want to make it about that. I wanted to make the point that the two most recent draft classes are underwhelming and that is translating into disappointment on game day. If the conclusion is that Telesco has done a poor job drafting, then maybe he needs to be looked at. Some are of the opinion that poor coaching of these young players is why they are under-performing.
    You really cant judge a class for a few years and certainly cant expect picks lower than the 3rd to contribute right away. Hec not even a 3rd really. If they do its a big plus IMO so Tranquill is a great pick. I guess you can say even Kelly has been OK, he just isnt anything flashy, isnt elusive and isnt what we want starting. But he is a RB and we can do better much easier than other possitions.

    Still have some hopes for Cortez Broughton. Kyzir has played a lot and done pretty decent so id call him a good pick. Jus Jack if not for being hurt all the time would be a real good pick but ........he is so.
    Quesenberry has contributed but is what he is, a backup.

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    • jamrock
      lawyers, guns and money
      • Sep 2017
      • 13117
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      #14
      Guys come in, make a quick splash and disappear on this team. That’s why I blame coaching. No development or failure to use them properly. Take your pick. Perryman was a thumper run stopper when he got here. Bench warmer now. White looked promising as did Chenna. Chenna can’t find the field and White is just a guy. Maybe Adderley will develop but he’s killed us a few times this season and hasn’t been the ball hawk we hoped for and needed. Murray looked promising at the start and now Bosa is calling him out. These guys are all high picks. They have to be the foundation of the team and the foundation is cracked and crumbling.

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      • Topcat
        AKA "Pollcat"
        • Jan 2019
        • 17432
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        #15
        Originally posted by Velo View Post
        Justin Herbert is of course the exception. He is probably the best player of the entire 2020 draft, and looks to be the best of the 3 QBs who went in the top of the draft, even though he was the third one taken. But he was a no-brainer pick, and a bit of a stroke of luck for Telesco that he appears to be better than everyone thought.

        However beyond Herbert, the picks in the last two drafts are underwhelming and this is contributing to the Chargers' struggles this season.

        The best player in the 2019 draft appears to be 4th rounder Drue Tranquill and he is not playing this season. Tillery is a decent situational player, but his best role appears as a part-time pass rusher or as a backup to Joey Bosa, not the 3-down interior anchor DL he was drafted to be. Adderly is just a guy right now, and I'm not sure what Pipkins is. Stick, Egbule and Broughton are non-factors.

        Evaluating below the Herbert pick in this year's, Kenneth Murray is not the impact player we were expecting. He's just a guy too at this point, he hasn't flashed any playmaking ability and for this Telesco gave up high picks in the 2nd & 3rd rounds. There are UDFAs who are better RBs than Joshua Kelley. With the two RBs ahead of him on the depth chart at the beginning of the season out with injuries, Kelley has not stepped up and is backing up a guy signed off the street (Ballage). At this point, I think Pope brings more pop to the running game than Kelley. Reed, Gillman and Hill are pretty much non-factors at this point. Reed has at least scored once, but neither he nor Hill are contributors in the passing game, and two UDFAs are getting more playing time and make more plays than either. Gillman was supposed to be the answer for AP leaving, but I don't think he's played a single snap.

        It's too early to speculate on a redo for either draft, but I will point out that some damn good WRs went in the 2nd round last year (Deebo Samuel, Mercole Hardman, AJ Brown, DK Metcalf). Metcalf came off the board a few picks after Adderly. Given the rather sizeable drop-off at WR after Mike Williams since Ty Will's departure, it's a damn shame we didn't nab one of those guys. Chase Claypool was available in the 2nd round this year. There was some decent OL talent available high in the 2nd round in last year's draft as well.

        When you compare the last two drafts to the 2018 draft, you see a big difference. Derwin James was a no-brainer pick too, a stroke of luck that he fell so far into Telesco's lap. Even with his injuries, at this point I would not want to have drafted anyone else. When you evaluate past James in the 2018 draft, you see players who are contributing: Nwosu, Justin Jones, Kyzir White, QBerry, Justin Jackson. The only bust in the draft was Cantrell, with Justin Jackson on the injury bust bubble.

        This team needs more from the 2018 and 2019's rookies, and Telesco can't afford to have another lackluster draft in 2021.
        Great points. When you look at the totality of TT's drafts, they are mostly underwhelming. That 2016 draft, aside from Bosa and Henry, wasn't too impressive...Tuerk, Perry, Brown, Kaser, Clark, all busts or semi busts. 2017--not a bad draft, but injuries to Lamp hurt us a lot. 2015--never much of a big fan of Gordon, especially throwing away those extra picks for him. Perryman has been solid when healthy, but a liability in coverage. Mager was a bust. Emanuel, just a guy, who couldn't cover either. 2014, Verrett an unfortunate injury bust. Attaochu showed flashes, then turned into a semi-bust, considering we traded up for him. The rest--Watt, Carrethers were busts. Grice a wasted pick, along with Tevin "The Human Toothpick" Reese. 2013, TT's first draft, included semi-busts with Fluke and Teo. KA by far biggest steal. The rest--Williams, Williams and Sorenson, wasted picks who never panned out. I give TT a C-, bordering on D+ for his drafting.

        tt 1.JPG

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        https://www.pro-football-reference.c.../sdg/draft.htm
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        Last edited by Topcat; 11-21-2020, 03:00 PM.

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        • dmac_bolt
          Day Tripper
          • May 2019
          • 10196
          • North of the Lagoon
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          #16
          Not good enough.
          “Less is more? NO NO NO - MORE is MORE!”

          Comment


          • #17
            Originally posted by Boltjolt View Post
            One thing Telesco hasnt done which is a big whiff imo is there have been two really deep WR classes recently. This past one and and last years and we didnt get not one of the higher rated WRs.

            Joe Reed i like but hasnt had any playing time as a WR but has run two runs on revereses, and Hill who was a value pick imo but isnt getting used either while we play Tyron Johnson a little and Guyton. Both have speed but as WRs their talent isnt some big potentual though Guyton has made a couple of catches on go routes. Just a speed thing really and Herbert made the throws.

            IMO their is much more potentual to the offense with guys like Claypool, Gibson(playing RB for WA), Metcalf, McLauren, Deebo, ....to name a handfull. I could name more as some here know.

            I think WR is important to a QB and yes we have Keenan and MW but after that its weak sauce (MW has missed a game and gone out of another an Keenan went out of a game early) and has been while these two classes are loaded and we really get nobody compard to what we could of done.

            To me thats a fail.
            While some of the players you named may have better top end potential, I think Guyton is not used nearly enough and has a lot more to contribute than just on long passing plays. He is pretty good at getting open and has good hands and great speed. I do not mind him at all as the #3 WR. To be clear, they would be better with the guys you named over Guyton and I would take Metcalf, Claypool, or McLaurin instead of Adderley at this point, but that is because those players are so good that they are a little better than Guyton, not because Guyton sucks or anything like that.

            That said, Guyton's presence would not preclude me from taking another WR in the 2021 draft as Williams will be at the end of his contract soon and there is room for better play from either Guyton or a new WR at the #3 WR position even if Williams is kept.

            I would cut K.J. Hill now, just not an NFL player IMO, complete waste of a uniform--slow, mediocre hands, not nearly as good at gaining separation as he was supposed to be, plays smaller than he is--not one good trait. I would use Reed a little bit more on offense. I actually do not like him as a kickoff return man. He always takes one or even two backward steps when he catches the ball, catches the ball high, and is always delayed by doing so. Also, while reasonably fast, he is not blazing fast. I like Reed better running jet sweeps, end arounds, and WR screens as I think that does a better job of taking advantage of his skill set.

            I do not think much of Johnson other than as a pure long threat, but I would at least kick the tires on him as a return man given his speed. I do not know if he has much of a background at that or has the catching/concentration skills for that, though, which is very important. If Johnson is on my roster, he is definitely at the bottom of the depth chart.
            Last edited by Guest; 11-21-2020, 03:11 PM.

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            • Boltjolt
              Dont let the PBs fool ya
              • Jun 2013
              • 26263
              • Henderson, NV
              • Send PM

              #18
              Guyton is depth and an occasional go route guy. He is not a YAC type of WR except on those go routes. Guyton is a faster Dontrelle Inman....if that. #4 WR type.

              Those i mentioned would be HUGE upgrades to Guyton and our WRs corps. Im just saying Telesco missed the boat big time by passing some bigger talent at WR in two absolute loaded classes. Just think that was a mistake.

              I am not ready to give up on Hill as he is a rookie as is Reed but look at them. They arent playing and hopefully down the road they help us but damn, ....look at some WRs we could of had. You think Mahomes dont like his weapons? Guyton is no Tyreek Hill who went in the 5th round because he had charactor issues.

              As for Reed, he was a dynamic kick returner in collge which he isnt showing with us. Like everyone else, he hesitates and slows down, doesnt have any kind of hole to go to and i got to think think that Stewarts return scheme are just horse shit.

              Our opponents regularly find holes and get to the 30 at least,..... regularly. Reed doesnt look good at all as a returner so far. Lynn needs to get rid of Stewart in the worst way.

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              • Lyth
                Registered Charger Fan
                • Sep 2018
                • 270
                • Send PM

                #19
                Originally posted by FoutsFan View Post

                I personally think Tillery would flourish in a 3-4 as a weakside end with Bosa on the other end and Joseph at NT.
                I agree. With his quickness and play style, a 3-4 end would fit better. The whole line is probably more suited to 3-4 now that we have Joseph. I wasn't sure about the pick to begin with. He's not strong enough to walk back a guard. I know we wanted pass rush from the DT's, but you still have to be able to play the run.

                We should find a 3-4 team with a DL that doesn't fit their scheme and trade.

                Comment

                • Topcat
                  AKA "Pollcat"
                  • Jan 2019
                  • 17432
                  • Send PM

                  #20
                  Originally posted by Boltjolt View Post
                  Guyton is depth and an occasional go route guy. He is not a YAC type of WR except on those go routes. Guyton is a faster Dontrelle Inman....if that. #4 WR type.

                  Those i mentioned would be HUGE upgrades to Guyton and our WRs corps. Im just saying Telesco missed the boat big time by passing some bigger talent at WR in two absolute loaded classes. Just think that was a mistake.

                  I am not ready to give up on Hill as he is a rookie as is Reed but look at them. They arent playing and hopefully down the road they help us but damn, ....look at some WRs we could of had. You think Mahomes dont like his weapons? Guyton is no Tyreek Hill who went in the 5th round because he had charactor issues.

                  As for Reed, he was a dynamic kick returner in collge which he isnt showing with us. Like everyone else, he hesitates and slows down, doesnt have any kind of hole to go to and i got to think think that Stewarts return scheme are just horse shit.

                  Our opponents regularly find holes and get to the 30 at least,..... regularly. Reed doesnt look good at all as a returner so far. Lynn needs to get rid of Stewart in the worst way.
                  Reed is like Benji 2.0...not all that great as a returner, has occasional butterfingers, and Lynn just keeps using him because I guess he's Loyal...

                  Comment

                  • Boltjolt
                    Dont let the PBs fool ya
                    • Jun 2013
                    • 26263
                    • Henderson, NV
                    • Send PM

                    #21
                    Originally posted by Topcat View Post

                    Reed is like Benji 2.0...not all that great as a returner, has occasional butterfingers, and Lynn just keeps using him because I guess he's Loyal...
                    Don't agree with that.
                    Reed don't seem to have any hole at all to sprint thru and has to hesitate and dance. It isn't just him, everybody we use has this problem and we know Reed can return kicks. I think it's our shit return scheme just isn't any good.
                    Stewart sucks. How can we struggle to get to the damn 20 while our opponents regularly get to the 30+?
                    Our opponents look polar opposites on STs to us every week.

                    Comment

                    • Topcat
                      AKA "Pollcat"
                      • Jan 2019
                      • 17432
                      • Send PM

                      #22
                      Originally posted by Boltjolt View Post

                      Don't agree with that.
                      Reed don't seem to have any hole at all to sprint thru and has to hesitate and dance. It isn't just him, everybody we use has this problem and we know Reed can return kicks. I think it's our shit return scheme just isn't any good.
                      Stewart sucks. How can we struggle to get to the damn 20 while our opponents regularly get to the 30+?
                      Our opponents look polar opposites on STs to us every week.
                      Okay, I can see your point there, Jolt. Maybe a fair evaluation of Reed would be with a solid ST coach and scheme. One more reason to fire Stewart...

                      Comment

                      • FoutsFan
                        Registered Charger Fan
                        • Feb 2019
                        • 2488
                        • Birmingham AL
                        • Send PM

                        #23
                        Originally posted by Lyth View Post

                        I agree. With his quickness and play style, a 3-4 end would fit better. The whole line is probably more suited to 3-4 now that we have Joseph. I wasn't sure about the pick to begin with. He's not strong enough to walk back a guard. I know we wanted pass rush from the DT's, but you still have to be able to play the run.

                        We should find a 3-4 team with a DL that doesn't fit their scheme and trade.
                        I would rather see us go to a 3-4 with an aggressive blitzing D coordinator in the Wade Phillips mold than trade Tillery just yet.

                        Comment

                        • Lyth
                          Registered Charger Fan
                          • Sep 2018
                          • 270
                          • Send PM

                          #24
                          Originally posted by Topcat View Post

                          Great points. When you look at the totality of TT's drafts, they are mostly underwhelming. That 2016 draft, aside from Bosa and Henry, wasn't too impressive...Tuerk, Perry, Brown, Kaser, Clark, all busts or semi busts. 2017--not a bad draft, but injuries to Lamp hurt us a lot. 2015--never much of a big fan of Gordon, especially throwing away those extra picks for him. Perryman has been solid when healthy, but a liability in coverage. Mager was a bust. Emanuel, just a guy, who couldn't cover either. 2014, Verrett an unfortunate injury bust. Attaochu showed flashes, then turned into a semi-bust, considering we traded up for him. The rest--Watt, Carrethers were busts. Grice a wasted pick, along with Tevin "The Human Toothpick" Reese. 2013, TT's first draft, included semi-busts with Fluke and Teo. KA by far biggest steal. The rest--Williams, Williams and Sorenson, wasted picks who never panned out. I give TT a C-, bordering on D+ for his drafting.

                          tt 1.JPG

                          tt-2.JPG

                          https://www.pro-football-reference.c.../sdg/draft.htm
                          All the first rounders are still in the league. Most of his 1st and 2nd rounders are playing for someone. No one is going to hit on all their picks. I wouldn't want to judge without some competitive analysis of what the normal division winners have done.

                          I do think TT needs to pay more attention to injuries. We draft alot of guys that had major injuries in college. They get to the Chargers and that becomes a trend. I one of my friends commented on that recently. We seem to have more guys on IR than anyone....every year.
                          Last edited by Lyth; 11-21-2020, 06:15 PM. Reason: Typo

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