Welcome Josh Palmer, WR, Tennessee (Pick #77)

[Guest]

Practice reps are contrived. Beating a CB on a 5 yard in route when he's squatting a 5 yard in route is super impressive. That's a first down on 3rd and 4.

Did you watch the video? Palmer beat a guy playing Ted Cottrell off coverage in another zip code on an uncontested 5 yard route--super not impressive. The inability to gain separation and the Magic Johnson jump shot vertical leap are fully cringeworthy.

[Guest]

A blurb about the Chargers draft from the Athletic with other front office people commenting on other teams picks:

Again, we do not need a #2 WR as our #3 WR. We need to examine what we have on the field and add to that by providing what is missing. Nobody gets any credit if they cannot figure out what is missing if Allen and Williams are on the field. Hint: It rhymes with "need".

[CivilBolt]

Again, we do not need a #2 WR as our #3 WR. We need to examine what we have on the field and add to that by providing what is missing. Nobody gets any credit if they cannot figure out what is missing if Allen and Williams are on the field. Hint: It rhymes with "need".

I remember Staley saying he wants to build the WR corps similar to the NBA starting five. Maybe he sees Palmer as a power forward that can beat press coverages. Also completions against good competition like Surtain shot him up the board.

[Bearded14YourPleasure]

What offense do you think we are running? Obviously there will be some variations but we will largely be running a system based off the Saints system. Since 2014 the highest YPC average on the Saints was in 2019 and that Jared Cook with 15.8 YPC. They have had zero top-10 pass catchers in terms of YPC in that time. Would you say that their offense hasn’t been explosive over that time until Brees’ arm gave out? Or that their WR haven’t been productive? That teams are slowing down their run game because they’re lowering all their coverages?

How can you continue to say that MW is not a deep threat when that is the way he has been used his entire career? So what if he catches the ball 40 yards downfield contested or by running by guys? He’s still a threat to catch the ball deep downfield. Contested catches are still catches last time I checked. We don’t need to be the Chiefs offense to have an exciting and efficient offense, and I very much doubt that is the offense Staley and Lombardi are trying to build.

Let’s also take into consideration the things that 3 larger bodied WR will do for the run game, which is a huge part of the NO offense.

Palmer is about an inch and a half taller, same weight as Davante Adams. And Palmer ran a faster 40. If Palmer can continue to develop his route running and become 60% of the player Davante is this is a good pick. Do you think any defense in the NFL would want to face Davante and Keenan on the field at the same time? Both are sub 4.5 guys who have no problem getting open with coverages constantly being rolled their way. I’m not saying Palmer is Adams but that is the type of player he has the potential to develop into.

[Xenos]

What offense do you think we are running? Obviously there will be some variations but we will largely be running a system based off the Saints system. Since 2014 the highest YPC average on the Saints was in 2019 and that Jared Cook with 15.8 YPC. They have had zero top-10 pass catchers in terms of YPC in that time. Would you say that their offense hasn’t been explosive over that time until Brees’ arm gave out? Or that their WR haven’t been productive? That teams are slowing down their run game because they’re lowering all their coverages?

How can you continue to say that MW is not a deep threat when that is the way he has been used his entire career? So what if he catches the ball 40 yards downfield contested or by running by guys? He’s still a threat to catch the ball deep downfield. Contested catches are still catches last time I checked. We don’t need to be the Chiefs offense to have an exciting and efficient offense, and I very much doubt that is the offense Staley and Lombardi are trying to build.

Let’s also take into consideration the things that 3 larger bodied WR will do for the run game, which is a huge part of the NO offense.

Palmer is about an inch and a half taller, same weight as Davante Adams. And Palmer ran a faster 40. If Palmer can continue to develop his route running and become 60% of the player Davante is this is a good pick. Do you think any defense in the NFL would want to face Davante and Keenan on the field at the same time? Both are sub 4.5 guys who have no problem getting open with coverages constantly being rolled their way. I’m not saying Palmer is Adams but that is the type of player he has the potential to develop into.

[equivocation]

Did you watch the video? Palmer beat a guy playing Ted Cottrell off coverage in another zip code on an uncontested 5 yard route--super not impressive. The inability to gain separation and the Magic Johnson jump shot vertical leap are fully cringeworthy.

I did watch the video. Did you? There were about a dozen snaps. Left side, CB lined up with inside leverage right where the route goes. Palmer gets him to flip his hips and cuts inside, playing though contact to get about 3 ft of separation and the catch. There was another snap from the right side where he runs a shallow slant vs off coverage (note: slant is not an in) where they were looking at CB closing speed.

[dmac_bolt]

And yet so few specifically identified Houston when that issue was discussed and before the group grading analysis was done. Also, Seattle only had three picks and the Rams did not have any selections until pick #57. The Raiders reached big time in round 1. There were a number of candidates for that worst position.

There is also the other end of the spectrum, which you have omitted from your discussion. Lots of teams drafts were liked, but I specifically noted Chicago as having the best draft. Both the best and worst were identified.

I do not claim perfection, but I do disagree with any suggestion of cluelessness because some are wearing homer goggles and will not acknowledge even the clearest of issues about a few of our draft picks.

Again, I thought we did well overall and especially early where it counts most, but the thought that every pick was spot on is ridiculous.

Palmer appears to have been a reach and poor fit for our team, which makes the reach even worse.

for Fuck’s sake, man, just let us wear homer goggles for a couple days. There’s ample time for reality to reveal its eternal truths. You don’t know Palmer won’t work out, ...

[Guest]

What offense do you think we are running? Obviously there will be some variations but we will largely be running a system based off the Saints system. Since 2014 the highest YPC average on the Saints was in 2019 and that Jared Cook with 15.8 YPC. They have had zero top-10 pass catchers in terms of YPC in that time. Would you say that their offense hasn’t been explosive over that time until Brees’ arm gave out? Or that their WR haven’t been productive? That teams are slowing down their run game because they’re lowering all their coverages?

How can you continue to say that MW is not a deep threat when that is the way he has been used his entire career? So what if he catches the ball 40 yards downfield contested or by running by guys? He’s still a threat to catch the ball deep downfield. Contested catches are still catches last time I checked. We don’t need to be the Chiefs offense to have an exciting and efficient offense, and I very much doubt that is the offense Staley and Lombardi are trying to build.

Let’s also take into consideration the things that 3 larger bodied WR will do for the run game, which is a huge part of the NO offense.

Palmer is about an inch and a half taller, same weight as Davante Adams. And Palmer ran a faster 40. If Palmer can continue to develop his route running and become 60% of the player Davante is this is a good pick. Do you think any defense in the NFL would want to face Davante and Keenan on the field at the same time? Both are sub 4.5 guys who have no problem getting open with coverages constantly being rolled their way. I’m not saying Palmer is Adams but that is the type of player he has the potential to develop into.

If the new coaches are not going to incorporate the deep passing attack into the offense with a couple of young fliers and Herbert's cannon of an arm, then we can just go ahead and fire them all right now before the season begins. I seriously doubt that they would be that stupid based upon what I have read about Staley.

The NO offense had a different QB and different WRs than what we have. I do not think there will be any sort of identical translation with respect to our offense.

Williams can catch deep passes, but his doing so does not alter the ability of defenses to squat as defenses can squat and still cover Williams to the extent he can be covered (he always has a chance on balls in the air just about no matter how he is defended). The speedier guys, by contrast, can stretch the defense out, opening things up underneath in the short and intermediate passing game. Without the speedier guys, defenses can creep up on us. That is the difference between what I am calling a pure deep threat and a guy that wins balls in the air that is not a pure deep threat.

The information I have about Palmer's height is that he is only .25" taller than Adams, while having a vertical leap that is 5.5" less than what Adams can do.

If we are running the ball, then we likely will not be in a three WR set. However, if we are running our of a 3wr set, then I would want the speedier player in the game as the third WR so the defense could not creep up. Also, it is going to be tough sell for you to convince me that there is a huge blocking difference between Guyton at 6' 1" and 212 pounds versus Palmer at 6' 1" and 210 pounds.

[Guest]

for Fuck’s sake, man, just let us wear homer goggles for a couple days. There’s ample time for reality to reveal its eternal truths. You don’t know Palmer won’t work out, ...

Palmer could work out if Allen or Williams got injured. I would not play him with Allen and Williams, though.

[equivocation]

Staley talked multiple times in press conferences about making the defense defend horizontal and specifically compared Eke to Kamara. I expect more vertical routes but there will be a lot of move / outside zone too. There are multiple ways to back a defense off, and Tyron Johnson is plenty fast anyway.

[Guest]

I did watch the video. Did you? There were about a dozen snaps. Left side, CB lined up with inside leverage right where the route goes. Palmer gets him to flip his hips and cuts inside, playing though contact to get about 3 ft of separation and the catch. There was another snap from the right side where he runs a shallow slant vs off coverage (note: slant is not an in) where they were looking at CB closing speed.

I did. I saw 2 snaps that were impressive. The rest seemed average or below average. He struggled against press coverage.

As I said, I actually thought less of Palmer after the video. In fact, I had not checked his vertical leap before today, but because I watched the video, that led me to suspect that his vertical leap was poor. Then I saw the number and it confirmed what I was seeing in the video.

A couple of those average reps featured more bad defensive play than anything good by Palmer, like where the DB for no reason falls down against a very average cut by Palmer. That absolutely was not some sort of great move. The post pattern, by contrast, featured a very nice cut that was noticeable.

[Guest]

Staley talked multiple times in press conferences about making the defense defend horizontal and specifically compared Eke to Kamara. I expect more vertical routes but there will be a lot of move / outside zone too. There are multiple ways to back a defense off, and Tyron Johnson is plenty fast anyway.

I agree with this 100%. Teams will be forced to defend horizontally and that will be combined with having to defend vertically to create space everywhere, which is what the Saints have done for years.

Hopefully, Payton's abilities have rubbed off on Lombardi.