Welcome Josh Palmer, WR, Tennessee (Pick #77)

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  • Originally posted by Bolt Dude View Post

    McKitty seems to have more potential as a receiver--his hands are like catcher's mitts and he had a good showing over Senior Bowl week. I think you're probably right. They prioritized Palmer over Tremble and went for it.
    Again, more than 1 in 7 (over 14%) dropped passes for McKitty, who, outside of this forum, has been recognized by multiple sources as one of the worst picks in the entire draft by any team. Honestly, we could have signed a blocking TE as an UDFA. This was our worst pick, followed by Palmer.

    The picks of Slater, Samuel, Rumph, Jaimes and Niemann were all good to great picks.

    We just need to send Telesco out for soda and snacks when the third round of the draft rolls around in 2022.

    He has repeatedly butchered the third round of the draft. After Allen, it has been useless (Watt), useless (Mager), tragically dead (Tuerk), not very good (Feeney), solid player (Jones), not very good and trending toward useless (Pipkins), and now two reaches in Palmer and McKitty. Just let someone else make those picks moving forward.

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    • Originally posted by equivocation View Post

      If "Jalen Guyton should have the most snaps of our WR group" is the hill you want to die on, I certainly don't have the enthusiasm to charge it.

      All you've done in this thread is convince me WR actually was a need.
      I never said that Guyton should have the most snaps. That is a complete misstatement of my view. If Allen or Williams are out, the extra snaps should be going to Guyton and Johnson. That is what I said. In other words, I am fine with Palmer being WR#5, but not WR#4, WR#3, WR#2 or WR#1.

      And Guyton actually did lead the team in WR snaps played last season. He had over 500 receiving yards and an 18.3 YPR as the #3 WR on an offense with a bad OL.

      It was Guyton that caught Herbert's first TD pass. It was Guyton that produced a 70+ yard TD reception that put us ahead against Tampa Bay late in the third quarter after Lynn and company had squandered our lead. It was Guyton that produced yet another 70+ yard TD reception late in the third quarter that brought us back to a tie game game after Lynn and company had squandered yet another huge lead against Jacksonville. It was Guyton that made the key 50+ yard catch that led to our victory last year against Las Vegas. Palmer does not make any of those long receptions.

      Guyton's contribution was huge in providing what the team had been missing after Tyrell Williams left. If given a chance, I think his play and that of Johnson will continue to improve. Those were great UDFA signings by Telesco and company.

      I do not need to imagine what the team would look like with no WR speed on the field. I saw that in 2019. No thanks.

      And what a waste of Herbert's deep passing arm talent that would be. That would really piss me off.

      That would be just about as criminal as not providing a good OL for an immobile, but otherwise great QB. No team would be stupid enough to do things like that year after year. Oh, wait a minute....

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      • like54ninjas
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        Originally posted by chaincrusher View Post

        Again, more than 1 in 7 (over 14%) dropped passes for McKitty, who, outside of this forum, has been recognized by multiple sources as one of the worst picks in the entire draft by any team. Honestly, we could have signed a blocking TE as an UDFA. This was our worst pick, followed by Palmer.

        The picks of Slater, Samuel, Rumph, Jaimes and Niemann were all good to great picks.

        We just need to send Telesco out for soda and snacks when the third round of the draft rolls around in 2022.

        He has repeatedly butchered the third round of the draft. After Allen, it has been useless (Watt), useless (Mager), tragically dead (Tuerk), not very good (Feeney), solid player (Jones), not very good and trending toward useless (Pipkins), and now two reaches in Palmer and McKitty. Just let someone else make those picks moving forward.
        Staley and staff see Tre as a true Y -TE with position flexibility to play H and F as well.
        He highly valued the prospect and the position/role he will fill.
        A reach vs. the consensus of non-NFL pundits is just for us fans to argue with.
        McKitty was obviously higher graded on the Charger’s board than said pundits.
        As an armchair GM would I have picked different prospects? Yes, at every selection but the prospects we drafted are solid pro prospects.
        My 2021 Adopt-A-Bolt List

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        • like54ninjas
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          Originally posted by chaincrusher View Post

          I never said that Guyton should have the most snaps. That is a complete misstatement of my view. If Allen or Williams are out, the extra snaps should be going to Guyton and Johnson. That is what I said. In other words, I am fine with Palmer being WR#5, but not WR#4, WR#3, WR#2 or WR#1.

          And Guyton actually did lead the team in WR snaps played last season. He had over 500 receiving yards and an 18.3 YPR as the #3 WR on an offense with a bad OL.

          It was Guyton that caught Herbert's first TD pass. It was Guyton that produced a 70+ yard TD reception that put us ahead against Tampa Bay late in the third quarter after Lynn and company had squandered our lead. It was Guyton that produced yet another 70+ yard TD reception late in the third quarter that brought us back to a tie game game after Lynn and company had squandered yet another huge lead against Jacksonville. It was Guyton that made the key 50+ yard catch that led to our victory last year against Las Vegas. Palmer does not make any of those long receptions.

          Guyton's contribution was huge in providing what the team had been missing after Tyrell Williams left. If given a chance, I think his play and that of Johnson will continue to improve. Those were great UDFA signings by Telesco and company.

          I do not need to imagine what the team would look like with no WR speed on the field. I saw that in 2019. No thanks.

          And what a waste of Herbert's deep passing arm talent that would be. That would really piss me off.

          That would be just about as criminal as not providing a good OL for an immobile, but otherwise great QB. No team would be stupid enough to do things like that year after year. Oh, wait a minute....
          He’ll start TC there but he’ll be WR3/4 by mid season.
          My 2021 Adopt-A-Bolt List

          MikeDub
          K9
          Nasir
          Tillery
          Parham
          Reed

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          • 21&500
            Bolt Spit-Baller
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            Originally posted by Bolt Dude View Post

            McKitty seems to have more potential as a receiver--his hands are like catcher's mitts and he had a good showing over Senior Bowl week. I think you're probably right. They prioritized Palmer over Tremble and went for it.
            McKitty is more versatile than I initially realized (TE/FB combo)
            Want us to incorporate those TE screens he did so well in college
            .005 Brock Bowers, TE/HB/SR Georgia
            .037 Braden Fiske, DT Florida St.
            .069 Mike Sainristil, CB Michigan
            .105 Brenden Rice, WR USC
            .110 Mason McCormick, OG/OC S. Dakota St.
            .140 Zak Zinter, OG Michigan
            .181 Nehemiah Pritchett, CB Auburn
            .225 Ainias Smith, WR Texas A&M
            .253 Carson Steele, RB UCLA

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            • 21&500
              Bolt Spit-Baller
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              Originally posted by Bolt Dude View Post
              I'll add one more thing I like about Palmer's athletic profile that hasn't been discussed. His arm length (33").

              Everyone talks about vertical jump when it comes to 50/50 balls. It's natural to think like that, after all, they're called "jump balls" right? However, before the jump there's always a lot of jostling for position. Long arms allow the receiver to fend a DB from catch points. It's an underrated physical aspect. If a WR can outreach the defender on the ground it creates opportunities for a clean path to the ball. Either that or the DB needs to grab, generating PI calls.

              On the other hand, this was something I worried about with Asante Samuel Jr. in the pre-draft process. He's got very short arms and I don't want to see him covering longer receivers too much on go routes. That's why I considered Asante's highest and best value as a NCB.
              I don’t think AS2’s arm length will be a problem for what they’ll be asking him to do. According to a video I just posted they will use him for off zone coverage
              .005 Brock Bowers, TE/HB/SR Georgia
              .037 Braden Fiske, DT Florida St.
              .069 Mike Sainristil, CB Michigan
              .105 Brenden Rice, WR USC
              .110 Mason McCormick, OG/OC S. Dakota St.
              .140 Zak Zinter, OG Michigan
              .181 Nehemiah Pritchett, CB Auburn
              .225 Ainias Smith, WR Texas A&M
              .253 Carson Steele, RB UCLA

              Comment

              • 21&500
                Bolt Spit-Baller
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                Originally posted by equivocation View Post

                If "Jalen Guyton should have the most snaps of our WR group" is the hill you want to die on, I certainly don't have the enthusiasm to charge it.

                All you've done in this thread is convince me WR actually was a need.
                Chainy works in mysterious ways haha
                seriously though, I appreciate his irreverence and willingness to be proven wrong.
                I harbor similar skepticism but don’t want to drag down the energy (more than usual at least)
                .005 Brock Bowers, TE/HB/SR Georgia
                .037 Braden Fiske, DT Florida St.
                .069 Mike Sainristil, CB Michigan
                .105 Brenden Rice, WR USC
                .110 Mason McCormick, OG/OC S. Dakota St.
                .140 Zak Zinter, OG Michigan
                .181 Nehemiah Pritchett, CB Auburn
                .225 Ainias Smith, WR Texas A&M
                .253 Carson Steele, RB UCLA

                Comment

                • 21&500
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                  Originally posted by Formula 21 View Post
                  I've seen PFF studies that state that raw athleticism is not a defining characteristic for how well WRs perform. Of course it counts, but its not everything.
                  Fuck PFF
                  .005 Brock Bowers, TE/HB/SR Georgia
                  .037 Braden Fiske, DT Florida St.
                  .069 Mike Sainristil, CB Michigan
                  .105 Brenden Rice, WR USC
                  .110 Mason McCormick, OG/OC S. Dakota St.
                  .140 Zak Zinter, OG Michigan
                  .181 Nehemiah Pritchett, CB Auburn
                  .225 Ainias Smith, WR Texas A&M
                  .253 Carson Steele, RB UCLA

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by like54ninjas View Post

                    Staley and staff see Tre as a true Y -TE with position flexibility to play H and F as well.
                    He highly valued the prospect and the position/role he will fill.
                    A reach vs. the consensus of non-NFL pundits is just for us fans to argue with.
                    McKitty was obviously higher graded on the Charger’s board than said pundits.
                    As an armchair GM would I have picked different prospects? Yes, at every selection but the prospects we drafted are solid pro prospects.
                    I disagree with the notion that if Telesco makes a third round pick, that pick is automatically a good pick. I think there is plenty of past history that indicates to the contrary.

                    If the range of opinion on McKitty is round 3 to 7, the one thing that I absolutely know is that I am not selecting him in round 3. I think it is bad strategy to tune out the public opinion regarding players based upon the theory that they are an NFL organization and they know better. I would be aware of the public opinion and put in the back of my mind that here is a player in McKitty that is rated lower and might get drafted later even though we think he has some upside.

                    If there is a player that has a range of round 1 to round 3, that is the player I am selecting in round 3 if I am truly looking for players and not positions.

                    The goal should always for the player to outperform the pick, not for the player to be everything the team is hoping he will be just to come out even on the pick.

                    And all of that is before I consider how drunk they were in rating McKitty in the top 100 players in the whole draft in the first place. Honestly, I am not 100% convinced that McKitty gets drafted at all if we do not take him at 3-97. The reach was that bad. nfl.com had 5 undrafted TEs rated higher than McKitty and another 4 rated higher that were drafted, but drafted after we took McKitty. (We signed one of the higher rated TEs as an UDFA--Kampmoyer.)

                    I have no real issue with Telesco picking different players than I would have selected had I been the one choosing as long as the pick looks like solid value and makes sense. For example, because I tend to prefer more athletic players, I liked Thornhill over Adderley, but I can understand why a GM might choose Adderley over Thornhill even if I would not have done so. Similarly, of the higher rated CBs, I liked Samuel the least, but I did not see a better CB on the board (yes, including Melifonwu, who I liked a lot as a possibility at #77 overall) when it was our pick at #47.

                    What I have more difficulty with crediting as a good pick are those situations in which the pick seems like a clear reach as with Pipkins. From minute one, we all knew that was a reach just like Palmer and McKitty this year, guys who basically nobody or almost nobody (PFF liked Palmer) but our GM had as 3rd round players.

                    In drafting, my strategy is to keep asking, "Where is the faller?" I am not giving credit to Telesco when he answers that question with Pipkins, Palmer and McKitty.

                    Comment

                    • Bolt Dude
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                      • Oct 2020
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                      I disagree with the notion that any pick is a good (or a bad) pick regardless of what round they’re drafted. Until they get their asses on the field on Sunday it’s all conjecture.

                      Saying that X GM is notoriously bad in Y round is just about the most fallacious logic I can think of.
                      Our quarterback is a golden god.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Bolt Dude View Post
                        I disagree with the notion that any pick is a good (or a bad) pick regardless of what round they’re drafted. Until they get their asses on the field on Sunday it’s all conjecture.

                        Saying that X GM is notoriously bad in Y round is just about the most fallacious logic I can think of.
                        We have been discussing our initial impressions of the pick--good or bad. That is what is meant by the views expressed at this time.

                        Do I or does anyone else think we should cut Palmer and McKitty before training camp? No, of course not. But do I think they were bad picks, especially McKitty, based upon the information available at present? Oh, hell yes.

                        Regarding Telesco's round 3 "accomplishments", maybe you missed the past 8 drafts. Telesco has done poorly in the third round on the whole in the years after he took Keenan Allen. Does anyone contest that point? Since Allen, we have drafted 8 round 3 players and have one solid player from the entire group (Jones) so far with the pundits indicating that Palmer was a reach and McKitty was one of the worst picks in the whole draft.

                        Maybe Pipkins will emerge as a great player and Palmer and McKitty will justify their draft positions. I am hoping for that outcome, but I think it is not the most likely outcome.

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                        • like54ninjas
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                          Originally posted by chaincrusher View Post

                          I disagree with the notion that if Telesco makes a third round pick, that pick is automatically a good pick. I think there is plenty of past history that indicates to the contrary.

                          If the range of opinion on McKitty is round 3 to 7, the one thing that I absolutely know is that I am not selecting him in round 3. I think it is bad strategy to tune out the public opinion regarding players based upon the theory that they are an NFL organization and they know better. I would be aware of the public opinion and put in the back of my mind that here is a player in McKitty that is rated lower and might get drafted later even though we think he has some upside.

                          If there is a player that has a range of round 1 to round 3, that is the player I am selecting in round 3 if I am truly looking for players and not positions.

                          The goal should always for the player to outperform the pick, not for the player to be everything the team is hoping he will be just to come out even on the pick.

                          And all of that is before I consider how drunk they were in rating McKitty in the top 100 players in the whole draft in the first place. Honestly, I am not 100% convinced that McKitty gets drafted at all if we do not take him at 3-97. The reach was that bad. nfl.com had 5 undrafted TEs rated higher than McKitty and another 4 rated higher that were drafted, but drafted after we took McKitty. (We signed one of the higher rated TEs as an UDFA--Kampmoyer.)

                          I have no real issue with Telesco picking different players than I would have selected had I been the one choosing as long as the pick looks like solid value and makes sense. For example, because I tend to prefer more athletic players, I liked Thornhill over Adderley, but I can understand why a GM might choose Adderley over Thornhill even if I would not have done so. Similarly, of the higher rated CBs, I liked Samuel the least, but I did not see a better CB on the board (yes, including Melifonwu, who I liked a lot as a possibility at #77 overall) when it was our pick at #47.

                          What I have more difficulty with crediting as a good pick are those situations in which the pick seems like a clear reach as with Pipkins. From minute one, we all knew that was a reach just like Palmer and McKitty this year, guys who basically nobody or almost nobody (PFF liked Palmer) but our GM had as 3rd round players.

                          In drafting, my strategy is to keep asking, "Where is the faller?" I am not giving credit to Telesco when he answers that question with Pipkins, Palmer and McKitty.
                          Public opinion is not a true assessment of evidence. The public in general is moronic, uneducated, and easily manipulated. See the last 5 years as an example.
                          That cost you some previously earned thought capital you had earned here.
                          Here is a perfect example over 80% of Americans think they are above average. Now that is comical.

                          Tre McKitty was rated a top 7 TE prospect by Bucky Brooks (5), Sporting News (6), SI (6), Fan Nation (6), PFN (7).
                          He also had an injured knee he was still rehabbing heading into the 2020 season. He’s now healthy.

                          No one is every going to happy with all the picks a team makes.
                          You’re opinion is yours to have.
                          If you done all the film work (6 full games minimum over at least 2 seasons), prospect background research, athletic profile projection, and factor in QB play/team offensive philosophy then you’re opinion should be valued. If not you’re just pissing into the wind.

                          Two different NFL scouts on McKitty and they see things differently.......

                          “He’s a little bit of a project who has a lot of upside,” said one scout. “He’s not a freakish athlete, but you see enough traits in there. Nice (catching) radius, big hands. He competed as a blocker.”

                          “He wasn’t used well enough at Georgia,” a second scout said. “Athletically, it looks like he belongs. He’s going to need some work. He’s more of a receiving tight end than an in-line blocker.”
                          My 2021 Adopt-A-Bolt List

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