Coach Staley Discussion - Fired

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  • Lone Bolt
    replied
    Originally posted by Heatmiser View Post
    Ben Johnson. He is 37. Been in the NFL about 10 years but a lot of it was quality control or "assistant to the assistant" position coach. Been a full fledged assistant coach since 2018. Been an OC for 1.5 seasons. His experience is with the Lions and Dolphins only. He was quality control (which is bottom rung) offensive assistant when Cambell first hired him

    Here is what all that tells me:
    - He has not learned under a great HC how to be a HC or how a great organization is run (His HCs were Mike Sherman, Adam Gase, Joe Philburn and now Dan Campbell, who may be great in the long run, don't know)
    - He has pretty limited coaching experience and very limited OC experience to draw on
    - His trajectory was flat, slightly up, down, and then way up
    - He has no experience working with the rest of the team, being an executive, working with a front office, and all the organizational things a HC has to tend to
    - He likely (don't know) has a limited network of assistants to come with him and the Chargers need strong coordinators
    - Seems a lead pipe cinch he will call the plays as a HC

    I see a guy who may be a great HC some day but who is not ready for it. Being a whiz is not enough. I see the offensive version of Brandon Staley. I see three years of hope followed by misery followed by a 4th year firing if Bolts go this way. And I see half to 2/3 of Herbert's career wasted. No thanks. Not a good fit for my team right now.

    TG
    Excellant analysis...alas, these types of coaches may be all we have to choose from...we'll see.

    Leave a comment:


  • dmac_bolt
    replied
    Originally posted by Heatmiser View Post
    Ben Johnson. He is 37. Been in the NFL about 10 years but a lot of it was quality control or "assistant to the assistant" position coach. Been a full fledged assistant coach since 2018. Been an OC for 1.5 seasons. His experience is with the Lions and Dolphins only. He was quality control (which is bottom rung) offensive assistant when Cambell first hired him

    Here is what all that tells me:
    - He has not learned under a great HC how to be a HC or how a great organization is run (His HCs were Mike Sherman, Adam Gase, Joe Philburn and now Dan Campbell, who may be great in the long run, don't know)
    - He has pretty limited coaching experience and very limited OC experience to draw on
    - His trajectory was flat, slightly up, down, and then way up
    - He has no experience working with the rest of the team, being an executive, working with a front office, and all the organizational things a HC has to tend to
    - He likely (don't know) has a limited network of assistants to come with him and the Chargers need strong coordinators
    - Seems a lead pipe cinch he will call the plays as a HC

    I see a guy who may be a great HC some day but who is not ready for it. Being a whiz is not enough. I see the offensive version of Brandon Staley. I see three years of hope followed by misery followed by a 4th year firing if Bolts go this way. And I see half to 2/3 of Herbert's career wasted. No thanks. Not a good fit for my team right now.

    TG
    great analysis, I agree. He may or may not be the next big guy, but has not been there done that yet at all and a hire this important should be someone who has been somewhere and done something - former HC is not mandatory but a longer track record, and working under great HC(s) where he at least could have learned winning ways, should be a min if he's not former HC.

    Leave a comment:


  • dmac_bolt
    replied
    Originally posted by Velo View Post

    Derwin gives up more big plays than he makes, by a 5-1 ratio.

    I agree he's not having a good year. you said he makes no big plays and I only said you're wrong on that. I now think you made that ratio up. I don't know what that ratio really is though. whatever, I think the secondary problem is the entire secondary - its the scheme and the implementation / teaching / coaching of the scheme that causes between 2 and 6 DBs to not know what they are supposed to do when the ball is snapped. They are all running around confused and blowing assignments far too often - its not just Derwin. He is a strong safety, he should never even be locked in 1x1 with a speedy WR. There is no reason to complain he's an elite shutdown CB, he shouldnt be asked to be one. Then again, Mack and Murray shouldn't be covering WRs either so there ya go.

    There was a good video breakdown of how confused the secondary is playing posted a week ago by someone - play after play where its not 1 or 2 guys open but 4. Nobody covered anywhere on the field. That is happening way too often and Staley blaming player execution for an entire defensive unit blowing assignment handoffs or sitting in a fucking zone spot while receivers just run to wide open gaping areas between the zone spots with 10 yards clearance to the nearest DB, time and time again, is looking in the wrong direction.

    I've seen Derwin play elite ball. I am still blaming the DC = HC at this point, I'll need to see DJ suck with a competent DC before I agree with you so we'll just disagree for now. For now - how about DJ stop hitting receivers with his fucking helmet and work up from there? I agree with you on that, although his last penalty was a shoulder hit BS call. He seems very frustrated out there and its showing in his play and I doubt that changes as long as Staley remains 100% confident in and committed to his scheme, calls and "messaging".

    Leave a comment:


  • Boltjolt
    replied
    Originally posted by Bolt4Knob View Post

    Telesco was never going to get rid of "his guys." First, that would admit failure. Second, that would mean actually having to scout and work and try to replace them. It was easier to kick the can down the road than actually, do his job. Hell he did it with Guyton,. Parham and Clapp too. JK Scott as well. Scott has been better the last few weeks but part of this year, he was terrible. And granted, he wasn't great last year. But he was "easy"

    Telesco had a lazy offseason.
    He has done that before so i dont buy that reason.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bolt4Knob
    replied
    Originally posted by Critty View Post

    It's all circumstances. No HC has been super successful in past decade. So it's hard for me to say, this a really talented team that GM Telesco constructed but his coaches are completely underachieving.

    I've never been a fan of how Telesco constructed the roster.
    ​​​​​​Tillery cut, JCJ traded, Davis benched. Bosa and Williams hurt again. Pipkins back up quality player at best paid to start at RT.
    Etc., etc...

    In off season I posted to trade Bosa and M.Williams as I felt they were too injury prone. Bosa was also on my trade list because of his playoff meltdown. Williams make so many contested catches and jump balls that he is almost certain to get injured. I'm not paying for car that will be in the shop and not on the road.

    So I was really wanted them to trade Bosa, Williams. So I first guessed that getting something for these 2 players....like extra draft picks and free up cap space would be a really good move. Because I really did think how does having 50million of talent on IR help win games. Predictable.

    And I wanted Joey Porter Jr CB because CB needed more talent or Bijan Robinson because the RB room needed much more talent and he was clearly a stud RB. QJ is talented and probably will become a every good WR2 down the Rd. But how does that help win this year. Mostly I want them to draft OL/DL or CB in Rd 1 every year while they have Herbert. Rds 2-7 they can get other positions. But should always go BPA. Never PON.

    I think Staley benching Davis 25mil. Cut Tillery last year. Cut JCJ this year is great. It shows to me that Brandon is creating a culture that it doesn't matter if you are paid well and think you are a starter. You still better earn it or you will get cut or benched. Telesco money spent is not on the field. Which is another indication that Telesco has failed to do his job well. His career record is a losing one and Tom just can't seem to get the right chef to cook his meal.. well if your high priced lobster and caviar is rotten and useless and was tossed in the garbage then getting a new chef doesn't fix that problem of too many swing and miss on your grocery shopping for a decade.

    ​​​​​​
    Telesco was never going to get rid of "his guys." First, that would admit failure. Second, that would mean actually having to scout and work and try to replace them. It was easier to kick the can down the road than actually, do his job. Hell he did it with Guyton,. Parham and Clapp too. JK Scott as well. Scott has been better the last few weeks but part of this year, he was terrible. And granted, he wasn't great last year. But he was "easy"

    Telesco had a lazy offseason.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bolt4Knob
    replied
    Originally posted by Heatmiser View Post
    Ben Johnson. He is 37. Been in the NFL about 10 years but a lot of it was quality control or "assistant to the assistant" position coach. Been a full fledged assistant coach since 2018. Been an OC for 1.5 seasons. His experience is with the Lions and Dolphins only. He was quality control (which is bottom rung) offensive assistant when Cambell first hired him

    Here is what all that tells me:
    - He has not learned under a great HC how to be a HC or how a great organization is run (His HCs were Mike Sherman, Adam Gase, Joe Philburn and now Dan Campbell, who may be great in the long run, don't know)
    - He has pretty limited coaching experience and very limited OC experience to draw on
    - His trajectory was flat, slightly up, down, and then way up
    - He has no experience working with the rest of the team, being an executive, working with a front office, and all the organizational things a HC has to tend to
    - He likely (don't know) has a limited network of assistants to come with him and the Chargers need strong coordinators
    - Seems a lead pipe cinch he will call the plays as a HC

    I see a guy who may be a great HC some day but who is not ready for it. Being a whiz is not enough. I see the offensive version of Brandon Staley. I see three years of hope followed by misery followed by a 4th year firing if Bolts go this way. And I see half to 2/3 of Herbert's career wasted. No thanks. Not a good fit for my team right now.

    TG
    Thank you for spelling out logical reasons of why Ben Johnson is not the right fit for the Chargers. And for me, neither is Frank Smith or the Ravens DC, Mike McDonald (king of Yacht rock radio, Yah Mo Be There) or any of these so-called HOT names.

    A couple things you bring up
    1) staffing, years in the league does he have the contacts. I know Andy Reid had the big binder for his Eagles interview and was ready. But is every prospective hire Big Andy
    2) I still think it helps if you have been kicked in the gonads and had to work your way back up

    Daboll was intriguing because he did get to be an OC for I think the Browns (at their peak of being the Factory of Sadness) and the Fish or Chiefs. So he had some lean years , back to the Patriots, to Alabama even and to Buffalo. Zimmer and Arians also had this as well - many years as coaches, for good and bad teams.

    Hence, Harbaugh is a no-brainer. Quinn, took his lumps at the end in Atlanta, Flores and even a guy like Bisaccia. A lot of years in the leagye.

    Leave a comment:


  • Critty
    replied
    Originally posted by Boltx View Post
    I did not have "Retain Staley AND let him be the GM" on my bingo card.

    That's certainly a take.

    I think it's much more likely that after he's done being the Chargers HC, Staley probably never gets another HCing job in the NFL ever again (similar to all other previous Chargers HCs).

    But Critty you are certainly welcome to rub it in our faces if he ever does become successful, here or elsewhere.
    It's all circumstances. No HC has been super successful in past decade. So it's hard for me to say, this a really talented team that GM Telesco constructed but his coaches are completely underachieving.

    I've never been a fan of how Telesco constructed the roster.
    ​​​​​​Tillery cut, JCJ traded, Davis benched. Bosa and Williams hurt again. Pipkins back up quality player at best paid to start at RT.
    Etc., etc...

    In off season I posted to trade Bosa and M.Williams as I felt they were too injury prone. Bosa was also on my trade list because of his playoff meltdown. Williams make so many contested catches and jump balls that he is almost certain to get injured. I'm not paying for car that will be in the shop and not on the road.

    So I was really wanted them to trade Bosa, Williams. So I first guessed that getting something for these 2 players....like extra draft picks and free up cap space would be a really good move. Because I really did think how does having 50million of talent on IR help win games. Predictable.

    And I wanted Joey Porter Jr CB because CB needed more talent or Bijan Robinson because the RB room needed much more talent and he was clearly a stud RB. QJ is talented and probably will become a every good WR2 down the Rd. But how does that help win this year. Mostly I want them to draft OL/DL or CB in Rd 1 every year while they have Herbert. Rds 2-7 they can get other positions. But should always go BPA. Never PON.

    I think Staley benching Davis 25mil. Cut Tillery last year. Cut JCJ this year is great. It shows to me that Brandon is creating a culture that it doesn't matter if you are paid well and think you are a starter. You still better earn it or you will get cut or benched. Telesco money spent is not on the field. Which is another indication that Telesco has failed to do his job well. His career record is a losing one and Tom just can't seem to get the right chef to cook his meal.. well if your high priced lobster and caviar is rotten and useless and was tossed in the garbage then getting a new chef doesn't fix that problem of too many swing and miss on your grocery shopping for a decade.

    ​​​​​​I seriously doubt they keep Staley and make him GM as well. But I would like to see it. It certainly would be different than they have ever done. If the conventional way hasn't worked. Why not change things up.

    I would not rub in face if Staley succeeded. I would more likely just gain more confidence in my overall opinion that it's a players league, a QB driven league. And your coach needs play makers, not JAGs. Parcells called it a talent acquisition league. KC does have a great HC, but they were 12-4 with A.Smith before trading all the way up for Mahomes. Chargers would never do that. I wanted them to draft Lamar Jackson even though Rivers was still playing well and a had a few good years left. KC also has the best TE in league. Traded Hill and chose instead to invest that money in OL. They have one of the best OL in the league for Mahomes to play behind. It's not an accident. They built that roster. Telesco would have paid Hill and the OL would be below avg with JAGs. And Mahomes would get his ribs injured like Herbert.

    Staley, in my view would build a much better roster than Telesco. Brandon got Mack. And he said when he was hired that we have to be a line of scrimmage team. And his 1st pick was Slater-OT and his first free agent was Linsley-OC.
    The special teams was also fixed, finally. And I like that he says east coast trips and Chargering are myths. He is speaking those things out of existence. I'm all in with Staley. Too much good to throw the baby out with the bathwater for me. But Telesco can be given the boot.
    Last edited by Critty; 11-29-2023, 11:54 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Boltjolt
    replied
    Originally posted by Heatmiser View Post
    Ben Johnson. He is 37. Been in the NFL about 10 years but a lot of it was quality control or "assistant to the assistant" position coach. Been a full fledged assistant coach since 2018. Been an OC for 1.5 seasons. His experience is with the Lions and Dolphins only. He was quality control (which is bottom rung) offensive assistant when Cambell first hired him

    Here is what all that tells me:
    - He has not learned under a great HC how to be a HC or how a great organization is run (His HCs were Mike Sherman, Adam Gase, Joe Philburn and now Dan Campbell, who may be great in the long run, don't know)
    - He has pretty limited coaching experience and very limited OC experience to draw on
    - His trajectory was flat, slightly up, down, and then way up
    - He has no experience working with the rest of the team, being an executive, working with a front office, and all the organizational things a HC has to tend to
    - He likely (don't know) has a limited network of assistants to come with him and the Chargers need strong coordinators
    - Seems a lead pipe cinch he will call the plays as a HC

    I see a guy who may be a great HC some day but who is not ready for it. Being a whiz is not enough. I see the offensive version of Brandon Staley. I see three years of hope followed by misery followed by a 4th year firing if Bolts go this way. And I see half to 2/3 of Herbert's career wasted. No thanks. Not a good fit for my team right now.

    TG
    Sounds like a perfect Spanos cheap candidate, ....i agree with you on this though.

    Leave a comment:

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