Our Wide Receivers.

[like54ninjas]

2021

1) Keenan, 2) MW, 3) Tyron, 4) Guyton, 5) JP, 6) KJ Hill, 7) Reed

2022

1) Keenan, 2) Tyron, 3) JP, 4) KJ Hill

Will be an interesting camp battle for Reed and Hill.

[Topcat]

I'm excited for Johnson, too. I think he has the highest ceiling of any WR on the roster outside of Keenan Allen. I hope both he and Guyton get a lot of reps this year.

That being said I don't think it's fair to compare drops to percentage of targets that are caught. Johnson did have a 76% completion percentage on targets, which is awesome. The other stats aren't at the level of Guyton yet. I'm not trying to argue Johnson should be cut and Guyton should be on the team when I point out these stats. I want both on the roster and I think both will be awesome in a few years. But drops is an overrated stat in my opinion. It's helpful, but it's not close to the end all be all. It reminds me of errors or fielding percentage in baseball. The goal is to get outs. A SS won't make any errors if he never moves for a ball. I'd rather have the guy who gets 1000 assits a year and makes 10 errors than a guy who makes 800 assists with 0 errors. That's 200 more outs the first SS is getting.

Those who hold a dim view of Butterfingers Benji would like a few words with u...an occasional drop is one thing...but frequent drops by a receiver show he's not getting the job done, plain and simple...

[eaterfan]

Those who hold a dim view of Butterfingers Benji would like a few words with u...an occasional drop is one thing...but frequent drops by a receiver show he's not getting the job done, plain and simple...

https://scores.nbcsports.com/fb/leaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232

It's all a sliding scale, but Tyreek Hill, Alvin Kamara, DK Metcalf, Diggs, and Mike Evans were all in the top 15 in drops last season. We have the best receiving RB, and 5 of the top 10 WRs in football on the list. I'd say they are getting the job done, plain and simple.

Guyton had 4 drops last year. That means a drop on 7.2% of targets (55). Comparing that to Johnson 0 drops on 26 targets. It's not really equal because Guyton played 16 games to Guytons 12. Over a 16 game season Johnson would be targeted about 35 times. That's 20 more times Guyton was able to get open compared to Johnson. Those 4 drops don't mean as much to me as those 20 extra times getting open.

And once again, both these players are not finished products. I think Guyton can improve his hands and Johnson can improve his feel and get open more. I just think people on here get too focused on the drops when comparing these two players.

[jubei]

https://scores.nbcsports.com/fb/leaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232

It's all a sliding scale, but Tyreek Hill, Alvin Kamara, DK Metcalf, Diggs, and Mike Evans were all in the top 15 in drops last season. We have the best receiving RB, and 5 of the top 10 WRs in football on the list. I'd say they are getting the job done, plain and simple.

Guyton had 4 drops last year. That means a drop on 7.2% of targets (55). Comparing that to Johnson 0 drops on 26 targets. It's not really equal because Guyton played 16 games to Guytons 12. Over a 16 game season Johnson would be targeted about 35 times. That's 20 more times Guyton was able to get open compared to Johnson. Those 4 drops don't mean as much to me as those 20 extra times getting open.

And once again, both these players are not finished products. I think Guyton can improve his hands and Johnson can improve his feel and get open more. I just think people on here get too focused on the drops when comparing these two players.

but what if the drop was a TD to seal the game? or a big 1st down to ice the game. I'd look more at drop percentage, not total drops.

[DragonIce]

Ekeler is that type of receiver but takes the majority of his snaps @RB.

Jaylen Guyton, Joe Reed, and Austin Proehl are the others that have slot traits.
Guyton and Reed are explosive, superior COD agility, speed merchants, RAC specialists with Reed having elite contact balance and better hands.
Proehl is a long shot with his size and lack of blazing speed.

I've liked most all your posts, ninja, but I can't agree with you here, bro. Ekeler is arguably a very fine receiver for a RB, but he isn't at all like the electric receivers I mentioned. And when you invoke half the receiving core as explosive slot types, I'm not sure you appreciate the type of skill I'm talking about. We will need to agree to disagree on this one.

Popper might see Keenan as an ideal slot, and perhaps in a NO style offense that's true. But I don't see elite slot skill in any Charger receiver if we are talking about the viciously quick ankle breaking variety. I don't see Allen as a supreme separator, but as a guy who succeeds anyway with leverage, body control, high positional IQ and amazing hands.

Guys like Tyreek and Waddle will work themselves *wide open*, with deception and explosion through their breaks. This breed is typically 5'11 or less, usually light in frame, low in center of gravity. Their feet are a blur. They often are the best of the best in the return game.

I'm not trying to say this particular skill set is *better*. It is different and meaningful in certain contexts.

Watch this and you'll get a taste:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcKtEIsOcYk

[Topcat]

https://scores.nbcsports.com/fb/leaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232

It's all a sliding scale, but Tyreek Hill, Alvin Kamara, DK Metcalf, Diggs, and Mike Evans were all in the top 15 in drops last season. We have the best receiving RB, and 5 of the top 10 WRs in football on the list. I'd say they are getting the job done, plain and simple.

Guyton had 4 drops last year. That means a drop on 7.2% of targets (55). Comparing that to Johnson 0 drops on 26 targets. It's not really equal because Guyton played 16 games to Guytons 12. Over a 16 game season Johnson would be targeted about 35 times. That's 20 more times Guyton was able to get open compared to Johnson. Those 4 drops don't mean as much to me as those 20 extra times getting open.

And once again, both these players are not finished products. I think Guyton can improve his hands and Johnson can improve his feel and get open more. I just think people on here get too focused on the drops when comparing these two players.

Well Eater, u do make some valid points...true, Guyton isn't in the league of Butterfingers Benji, but I would like to see him reduce his drops...

[like54ninjas]

I've liked most all your posts, ninja, but I can't agree with you here, bro. Ekeler is arguably a very fine receiver for a RB, but he isn't at all like the electric receivers I mentioned. And when you invoke half the receiving core as explosive slot types, I'm not sure you appreciate the type of skill I'm talking about. We will need to agree to disagree on this one.

Popper might see Keenan as an ideal slot, and perhaps in a NO style offense that's true. But I don't see elite slot skill in any Charger receiver if we are talking about the viciously quick ankle breaking variety. I don't see Allen as a supreme separator, but as a guy who succeeds anyway with leverage, body control, high positional IQ and amazing hands.

Guys like Tyreek and Waddle will work themselves *wide open*, with deception and explosion through their breaks. This breed is typically 5'11 or less, usually light in frame, low in center of gravity. Their feet are a blur. They often are the best of the best in the return game.

I'm not trying to say this particular skill set is *better*. It is different and meaningful in certain contexts.

Watch this and you'll get a taste:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcKtEIsOcYk

The bolded loses you credibility on this topic. I know you haven’t been a Bolt fan long but you need to watch Slayer make most every DB look like a newborn foal on skates. No separation is a joke statement. It is how he makes his living. His route tree/stems are top 2 in the NFL.

You listed Cole Beasley as 1 of 4 examples. He’s never had a 12+ YPR season in his career or 7 TDs.
You listed 2 soon to be rookies. Let’s see how Waddle and Toney fare before considering them dominant slot players. Waddle won’t be open like he was at Bama. I do like Toney’s chances.
You listed Tyreek who is the lone proven playmaker of the bunch. Hard to find a comparison in the league for Hill.

I listed 3 players on our current roster that possess the skillsets in speed, COD agility, and explosion metrics to excel at WRS position.
Guyton needs to improve his catch rate and route tree. He can be a dangerous weapon inside or outside. We saw this last year on his vertical routes and a few times on underneath routes.
Reed needs to improve his route tree/stems. He was a raw WR prospect coming in but has the ideal skillset to play WRS. Joe is a mismatch waiting to happen.
Proehl is an unknown at the NFL level but his size limits him to play in the slot. He’ll be lucky to make the PS.
I will stay with my player/prospect evaluations.

[DragonIce]

The bolded loses you credibility on this topic. I know you haven’t been a Bolt fan long but you need to watch Slayer make most every DB look like a newborn foal on skates. No separation is a joke statement. It is how he makes his living. His route tree/stems are top 2 in the NFL.

You listed Cole Beasley as 1 of 4 examples. He’s never had a 12+ YPR season in his career or 7 TDs.
You listed 2 soon to be rookies. Let’s see how Waddle and Toney fare before considering them dominant slot players. Waddle won’t be open like he was at Bama. I do like Toney’s chances.
You listed Tyreek who is the lone proven playmaker of the bunch. Hard to find a comparison in the league for Hill.

I listed 3 players on our current roster that possess the skillsets in speed, COD agility, and explosion metrics to excel at WRS position.
Guyton needs to improve his catch rate and route tree. He can be a dangerous weapon inside or outside. We saw this last year on his vertical routes and a few times on underneath routes.
Reed needs to improve his route tree/stems. He was a raw WR prospect coming in but has the ideal skillset to play WRS. Joe is a mismatch waiting to happen.
Proehl is an unknown at the NFL level but his size limits him to play in the slot. He’ll be lucky to make the PS.
I will stay with my player/prospect evaluations.

You clearly don't understand my point. I am not talking about overall greatness as a receiver. I am talking about a specific skill set, a specific profile or player type.

I watched all of Keenan's 2020 highlights here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIOA7NaSI3k&t=117s)

In Allen I see a great receiver. One of the league's best. Great routes, great hands, great positioning. Good size and athleticism. Bold in traffic. He's amazing, but he's not got top-ten quickness. He wouldn't make an elite punt returner, which is what you inevitably find with the type of player I'm talking about.

And again, you aren't getting the point when you talk about the straight-line speed of Guyton. I'm talking not straight line speed, but quickness, a different thing. The cat I'm talking about can start or stop on a dime, attain top speed in just a few steps, turn suddenly with no loss of speed.

The cat I'm talking about is inevitably a little guy (it's physics and kinesiology - low center of gravity required). Again watch elite punters to understand:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX4c_RVcv2c

[Panamamike]

Lining up in the slot is not just about short area quickness, it is about creating mismatches. Some receivers and tight ends that have and do excel in the slot:

Godwin
Robinson
Allen
Jared Cook
Mike Evans
Megatron
Kupp
Lockett
Larry Fitzgerald.
Theilen

Few of the receivers that dominate from the slot position are what most people call slot receivers.

[Grinners]

Got it. I was confused as I thought we were discussing WRs not DBs.

LMAO I was thinking like you but your Ninja skills have now confused the shit out of me. Where were we again????

Maybe this is one of those "Jammer to Safety" moments?

[DragonIce]

Lining up in the slot is not just about short area quickness, it is about creating mismatches. Some receivers and tight ends that have and do excel in the slot:

Godwin
Robinson
Allen
Jared Cook
Mike Evans
Megatron
Kupp
Lockett
Larry Fitzgerald.
Theilen

Few of the receivers that dominate from the slot position are what most people call slot receivers.

No doubt. We sometimes even see NFL teams put their tight end in a slot role.

I'm talking about a specific physical profile, often best measured by 20 yard split time, & 3-cone time. When team's do have such a player they often play him mostly from the slot.

Again, I'm not talking about overall quality of player, but about the type. The Ram's added one in Atwell in the draft. The kid won't catch a lot of balls for them, but he's an interesting niche player for punt returns, screens, reverses and certain patterns.

[Panamamike]

No doubt. We sometimes even see NFL teams put their tight end in a slot role.

I'm talking about a specific physical profile, often best measured by 20 yard split time, & 3-cone time. When team's do have such a player they often play him mostly from the slot.

Again, I'm not talking about overall quality of player, but about the type. The Ram's added one in Atwell in the draft. The kid won't catch a lot of balls for them, but he's an interesting niche player for punt returns, screens, reverses and certain patterns.

5'8 and 150# .... He better be unhittable cuz he's like to get broken in two.