Staley’s Defense: Stop the Run or Pass first strategy

[RTPbolt]

Ok so Ive seen the issue of allowing a team to run on you brought up as a huge concern of us fans. Pundits offer this as a reason why we are in trouble. Frankly its been a weakness with Gus’s D at the Chargers that cost us games for sure. However, Gus never made a real CHOICE of this to create a top pass defense…he struggled to really commit to stopping either Pass or Run.

To me this is a CHOICE by Staley. Its incredibly hard to shut down both the run game and the passing game. Rather than try to do both he puts the Dome up with 2 safeties high for a reason…and it has a good outcome.

Shutting diwn the run game by bringing more men up near the line leaves you exposed to the quicker scoring pass plays. If you have a lead this is BAD right? Teams can catch up quickly and am I wrong in saying this NFL is a pass happy league that covets quick score ability that requires fewer plays AND time. Teams are better now and more committed to wanting a higher octane passing game. They are never out of a game…ala KC snd Tampa for instance.

Shutting down the pass game yes means you may give up more rushing yards but you also force the opposing offenses to chew up clock time and take a lot more plays to score. Between the 20s the opposing offense has to execute many times to get down the field but when you get to the red zone the field is compacted so naturally we can play both run/pass a bit easier which I believe is why Staleys D may allow yards but less points. Many offensive plays statistically means our D has more chances to cause a turnover or get a sack to disrupt a drive to force a punt or nust get the ball.

You combine a D strategy like this choice of STOP THE PASS with a very good aggressive Offense that will consistently put up 24-30 points and we get to pressure teams into having them run the ball easier and but also the clock out and difficulty in the red zone OR pass into a stacked deck with tighter windows of opportunity to succeed. Teams choose the Run and chew up clock and limit ability to keep up with our scoring.

To me this is SMART analysis by Staley. Yes in the NFL we’ve all heard the mantra STOP THE RUN first but I believe Staley for the 2nd year in a row is showing STOP THE PASS is a better fit when you have a good offense like we do as he has shown stopping yhe pass actually led the league in less scoring…the REAL measure of success for a Defense. Plus his disguise the D alignment still keeps offenses guessing until after the snap to decrease the offenses ability to call the best play.

So what say yall to this? To me it just makes brilliant sense for Staley to build it this way.

[Panamamike]

Ok so Ive seen the issue of allowing a team to run on you brought up as a huge concern of us fans. Pundits offer this as a reason why we are in trouble. Frankly its been a weakness with Gus’s D at the Chargers that cost us games for sure. However, Gus never made a real CHOICE of this to create a top pass defense…he struggled to really commit to stopping either Pass or Run.

To me this is a CHOICE by Staley. Its incredibly hard to shut down both the run game and the passing game. Rather than try to do both he puts the Dome up with 2 safeties high for a reason…and it has a good outcome.

Shutting diwn the run game by bringing more men up near the line leaves you exposed to the quicker scoring pass plays. If you have a lead this is BAD right? Teams can catch up quickly and am I wrong in saying this NFL is a pass happy league that covets quick score ability that requires fewer plays AND time. Teams are better now and more committed to wanting a higher octane passing game. They are never out of a game…ala KC snd Tampa for instance.

Shutting down the pass game yes means you may give up more rushing yards but you also force the opposing offenses to chew up clock time and take a lot more plays to score. Between the 20s the opposing offense has to execute many times to get down the field but when you get to the red zone the field is compacted so naturally we can play both run/pass a bit easier which I believe is why Staleys D may allow yards but less points. Many offensive plays statistically means our D has more chances to cause a turnover or get a sack to disrupt a drive to force a punt or nust get the ball.

You combine a D strategy like this choice of STOP THE PASS with a very good aggressive Offense that will consistently put up 24-30 points and we get to pressure teams into having them run the ball easier and but also the clock out and difficulty in the red zone OR pass into a stacked deck with tighter windows of opportunity to succeed. Teams choose the Run and chew up clock and limit ability to keep up with our scoring.

To me this is SMART analysis by Staley. Yes in the NFL we’ve all heard the mantra STOP THE RUN first but I believe Staley for the 2nd year in a row is showing STOP THE PASS is a better fit when you have a good offense like we do as he has shown stopping yhe pass actually led the league in less scoring…the REAL measure of success for a Defense. Plus his disguise the D alignment still keeps offenses guessing until after the snap to decrease the offenses ability to call the best play.

So what say yall to this? To me it just makes brilliant sense for Staley to build it this way.

We effectively stopped both the pass and the run last night. Our defense is going to grow in this scheme as a season goes along. Early season hot takes usually end up being cold crap.

[Steve]

Ok so Ive seen the issue of allowing a team to run on you brought up as a huge concern of us fans. Pundits offer this as a reason why we are in trouble. Frankly its been a weakness with Gus’s D at the Chargers that cost us games for sure. However, Gus never made a real CHOICE of this to create a top pass defense…he struggled to really commit to stopping either Pass or Run.

To me this is a CHOICE by Staley. Its incredibly hard to shut down both the run game and the passing game. Rather than try to do both he puts the Dome up with 2 safeties high for a reason…and it has a good outcome.

Shutting diwn the run game by bringing more men up near the line leaves you exposed to the quicker scoring pass plays. If you have a lead this is BAD right? Teams can catch up quickly and am I wrong in saying this NFL is a pass happy league that covets quick score ability that requires fewer plays AND time. Teams are better now and more committed to wanting a higher octane passing game. They are never out of a game…ala KC snd Tampa for instance.

Shutting down the pass game yes means you may give up more rushing yards but you also force the opposing offenses to chew up clock time and take a lot more plays to score. Between the 20s the opposing offense has to execute many times to get down the field but when you get to the red zone the field is compacted so naturally we can play both run/pass a bit easier which I believe is why Staleys D may allow yards but less points. Many offensive plays statistically means our D has more chances to cause a turnover or get a sack to disrupt a drive to force a punt or nust get the ball.

You combine a D strategy like this choice of STOP THE PASS with a very good aggressive Offense that will consistently put up 24-30 points and we get to pressure teams into having them run the ball easier and but also the clock out and difficulty in the red zone OR pass into a stacked deck with tighter windows of opportunity to succeed. Teams choose the Run and chew up clock and limit ability to keep up with our scoring.

To me this is SMART analysis by Staley. Yes in the NFL we’ve all heard the mantra STOP THE RUN first but I believe Staley for the 2nd year in a row is showing STOP THE PASS is a better fit when you have a good offense like we do as he has shown stopping yhe pass actually led the league in less scoring…the REAL measure of success for a Defense. Plus his disguise the D alignment still keeps offenses guessing until after the snap to decrease the offenses ability to call the best play.

So what say yall to this? To me it just makes brilliant sense for Staley to build it this way.

It all comes down to the fact that even a bad passing team averages more yards per pass than the best running teams. Even the best running teams will (generally) stop themselves. Either a negative play to get them off of schedule or penalty. A small improvement in our pass defense in terms of yards per pass will really cut back in the yards given up over the course of the season. And unless a football field has gotten shorter, you still have to drive the ball the length of the field to score a TD.

Old school football guys will tell you that stopping the run was priority #1. QB's threw a lot more int, held the ball and gave up a lot of sacks, so passing was kind of a low percentage way to go. Today, not so much.

It can get a little demoralizing if a team keeps running and running against you. That is the bitching you keep hearing, they are responding to the emotional part of their brains. But in the end, they still have to move the ball the length of the field and score, and if you make them put long drives together, chances are they will stop themselves, or we will make a play and stop them. But not a lot of football coaches are wired so that they will want to run the ball on a 20 play drive to score a TD. At some point, they will start to put the ball in the air, and the percentages work in our favor again. Carr hit his receivers in the 1st couple of drives on Monday night, but his guys dropped the passes and he took some hits and sacks and they couldn't get going. And even if they didn't, we were scoring, so we wouldn't have fallen behind.

The way you really stop teams from running the ball is by taking away the chance to do it. Get them down by 21 points and make them throw the ball. Serve them up for our pass rush. make it clear, we are going to score points, you have to keep up with us. That puts a lot of pressure on the other team, and that forces mistakes as much as blitzing or rushing the QB does.

The big thing I think we are going to see is that Staley and Lombardi are really rethinking how to play 5 minute offense. Staley is not gambling with those 4th down plays. They are being very deliberate. We seem to be planning to go for these, and I would be shocked if the call sheet didn't have more than a normal # of plays that would be perfect for these situations (3rd and 4th and medium). Add in the some extra 3rd and long plays, but they are planning to keep the ball.

And if we don't make it, it strikes me that we would shorten the field, so we will probably be able to get the ball back with enough time to get one last shot at trying to score a TD.

And I don't think this is something that other teams can really copy too much. KC can. Seattle, GB ... but how many teams have the QB that you can really give the ball too and expect them to carry the team? A few, but Herbert is an elite QB, which makes that go for it choice a lot easier. Other teams can try it, but once it blows up in your face a few times, I think other coaches will probably back off.

It will eventually not work for us, and we will lose a game here and there. But the old way of running the ball, not finishing and giving the ball to the other team late in a 1 score game makes it a crap shoot. With Herbert we will come out ahead more often then not. Plus that is when emphasis of the pass D is really going to pay off. We are 2 deep at the edge rusher spots, and I saw Linval Joseph rushing the QB on the last drive right before Carr through the int. It's all about keeping the DL fresh and playing sound bend but don't break coverage behind.

[equivocation]

It all comes down to the fact that even a bad passing team averages more yards per pass than the best running teams. Even the best running teams will (generally) stop themselves. Either a negative play to get them off of schedule or penalty. A small improvement in our pass defense in terms of yards per pass will really cut back in the yards given up over the course of the season. And unless a football field has gotten shorter, you still have to drive the ball the length of the field to score a TD.

Old school football guys will tell you that stopping the run was priority #1. QB's threw a lot more int, held the ball and gave up a lot of sacks, so passing was kind of a low percentage way to go. Today, not so much.

It can get a little demoralizing if a team keeps running and running against you. That is the bitching you keep hearing, they are responding to the emotional part of their brains. But in the end, they still have to move the ball the length of the field and score, and if you make them put long drives together, chances are they will stop themselves, or we will make a play and stop them. But not a lot of football coaches are wired so that they will want to run the ball on a 20 play drive to score a TD. At some point, they will start to put the ball in the air, and the percentages work in our favor again. Carr hit his receivers in the 1st couple of drives on Monday night, but his guys dropped the passes and he took some hits and sacks and they couldn't get going. And even if they didn't, we were scoring, so we wouldn't have fallen behind.

The way you really stop teams from running the ball is by taking away the chance to do it. Get them down by 21 points and make them throw the ball. Serve them up for our pass rush. make it clear, we are going to score points, you have to keep up with us. That puts a lot of pressure on the other team, and that forces mistakes as much as blitzing or rushing the QB does.

The big thing I think we are going to see is that Staley and Lombardi are really rethinking how to play 5 minute offense. Staley is not gambling with those 4th down plays. They are being very deliberate. We seem to be planning to go for these, and I would be shocked if the call sheet didn't have more than a normal # of plays that would be perfect for these situations (3rd and 4th and medium). Add in the some extra 3rd and long plays, but they are planning to keep the ball.

And if we don't make it, it strikes me that we would shorten the field, so we will probably be able to get the ball back with enough time to get one last shot at trying to score a TD.

And I don't think this is something that other teams can really copy too much. KC can. Seattle, GB ... but how many teams have the QB that you can really give the ball too and expect them to carry the team? A few, but Herbert is an elite QB, which makes that go for it choice a lot easier. Other teams can try it, but once it blows up in your face a few times, I think other coaches will probably back off.

It will eventually not work for us, and we will lose a game here and there. But the old way of running the ball, not finishing and giving the ball to the other team late in a 1 score game makes it a crap shoot. With Herbert we will come out ahead more often then not. Plus that is when emphasis of the pass D is really going to pay off. We are 2 deep at the edge rusher spots, and I saw Linval Joseph rushing the QB on the last drive right before Carr through the int. It's all about keeping the DL fresh and playing sound bend but don't break coverage behind.

Exactly. You also have to play the clock. Give them a short field with 5 minutes or a long field with 5 minutes? If you get a stop it's good either way. But a short field with 5 minutes gives you the ball back if they do go ahead.

Now if it's 8 or 9 minutes, that long field is probably better.

This on top of the % chance you convert the 4th down.

[RTPbolt]

Very much agree. This team design matches up to the strategy of we are ok using all 4 downs to keep drives moving, chew up some clock but we will eventually score enough tds vs going for the easier fg. We can fail on 1 of 2 4th down attempts to get a td vs 2 fgs and we get the additional pt 7 vs 6. The 4th down plays have been innovative quick plays to yield the short yardage and even the longer plays have been aggressive. I thought I saw a stat about 4th down attempts at 100% but not sure if that was short yardage. We dont seem to run much unless its the qb sneak.

Provided we dont have penalties on offense we have been able to use the 4 down strategy to run out the time on last drives pretty well too. Keeping that opposing Offense off the field at the end of game is a good benefit of using 4 down. Obviously has risk but seeing how effective we have been is encouraging.

This is not the strategy of a Lynn run team…3 runs and a punt just was so frustrating to watch as we gave up opportunity after opportunity by letting them get the ball back and have Gus run the break but dont bend broken fence D. We would rather die by our own hand than someone elses. Control our destiny.

[Topcat]

Very much agree. This team design matches up to the strategy of we are ok using all 4 downs to keep drives moving, chew up some clock but we will eventually score enough tds vs going for the easier fg. We can fail on 1 of 2 4th down attempts to get a td vs 2 fgs and we get the additional pt 7 vs 6. The 4th down plays have been innovative quick plays to yield the short yardage and even the longer plays have been aggressive. I thought I saw a stat about 4th down attempts at 100% but not sure if that was short yardage. We dont seem to run much unless its the qb sneak.

Provided we dont have penalties on offense we have been able to use the 4 down strategy to run out the time on last drives pretty well too. Keeping that opposing Offense off the field at the end of game is a good benefit of using 4 down. Obviously has risk but seeing how effective we have been is encouraging.

This is not the strategy of a Lynn run team…3 runs and a punt just was so frustrating to watch as we gave up opportunity after opportunity by letting them get the ball back and have Gus run the break but dont bend broken fence D. We would rather die by our own hand than someone elses. Control our destiny.

^ This...

[AK47]

So what say yall to this? To me it just makes brilliant sense for Staley to build it this way.

We gives a shiznit if teams run as opposed to getting big 20+ yard plays. It puts teams in a lot of 3rd down aka passing situations. We like our chances of stopping you in such situations as you must convert at a high level mistake free football over the course of upwards to 12 plays per drive. That's with a bad rush defense the first 3 games. The 4th game displayed things to come should the run defense catch up with the program. Then it becomes a team hard to run on and hard to throw on. Essentially trending towards last years Rams defense with that pretty good DC coach of theirs...oh wait

Staley's system involves less thinking for our players (due to thoughtful preparation and simple real time in-game changes by coaches) yet more confusion on the opposing offensive players. It negates speed (Hill and Ruggs) from making game changing scoring plays. It's starting to take away your key go-to player (Waller) from getting off. It forces opposing QBs to be Alex Smith game management efficient. Deviate and play like a rock star and you spring our trap. Come in thinking oh the Chargers can be ran against and you play right into our trap. We shut out (zero points) two of the most dynamic offenses for a total 3 quarters in just 2 games in KC and Raturds. This includes a quarter where KC managed to score 3 points.


Edit: We also shut out the Cowboys for 2 quarters and WFT for 1 quarter.

[ChargersPowderBlue]

We shut out (zero points) two of the most dynamic offenses for a total 3 quarters in just 2 games in KC and Raturds. This includes a quarter where KC managed to score 3 points.

That field goal the Chiefs kicked at the end of the first half didn't really look like it went in.

[AK47]

That field goal the Chiefs kicked at the end of the first half didn't really look like it went in.

Shhhh! They're listening.

[ghost]

It all comes down to the fact that even a bad passing team averages more yards per pass than the best running teams. Even the best running teams will (generally) stop themselves. Either a negative play to get them off of schedule or penalty. A small improvement in our pass defense in terms of yards per pass will really cut back in the yards given up over the course of the season. And unless a football field has gotten shorter, you still have to drive the ball the length of the field to score a TD.

Old school football guys will tell you that stopping the run was priority #1. QB's threw a lot more int, held the ball and gave up a lot of sacks, so passing was kind of a low percentage way to go. Today, not so much.

It can get a little demoralizing if a team keeps running and running against you. That is the bitching you keep hearing, they are responding to the emotional part of their brains. But in the end, they still have to move the ball the length of the field and score, and if you make them put long drives together, chances are they will stop themselves, or we will make a play and stop them. But not a lot of football coaches are wired so that they will want to run the ball on a 20 play drive to score a TD. At some point, they will start to put the ball in the air, and the percentages work in our favor again. Carr hit his receivers in the 1st couple of drives on Monday night, but his guys dropped the passes and he took some hits and sacks and they couldn't get going. And even if they didn't, we were scoring, so we wouldn't have fallen behind.

The way you really stop teams from running the ball is by taking away the chance to do it. Get them down by 21 points and make them throw the ball. Serve them up for our pass rush. make it clear, we are going to score points, you have to keep up with us. That puts a lot of pressure on the other team, and that forces mistakes as much as blitzing or rushing the QB does.

The big thing I think we are going to see is that Staley and Lombardi are really rethinking how to play 5 minute offense. Staley is not gambling with those 4th down plays. They are being very deliberate. We seem to be planning to go for these, and I would be shocked if the call sheet didn't have more than a normal # of plays that would be perfect for these situations (3rd and 4th and medium). Add in the some extra 3rd and long plays, but they are planning to keep the ball.

And if we don't make it, it strikes me that we would shorten the field, so we will probably be able to get the ball back with enough time to get one last shot at trying to score a TD.

And I don't think this is something that other teams can really copy too much. KC can. Seattle, GB ... but how many teams have the QB that you can really give the ball too and expect them to carry the team? A few, but Herbert is an elite QB, which makes that go for it choice a lot easier. Other teams can try it, but once it blows up in your face a few times, I think other coaches will probably back off.

It will eventually not work for us, and we will lose a game here and there. But the old way of running the ball, not finishing and giving the ball to the other team late in a 1 score game makes it a crap shoot. With Herbert we will come out ahead more often then not. Plus that is when emphasis of the pass D is really going to pay off. We are 2 deep at the edge rusher spots, and I saw Linval Joseph rushing the QB on the last drive right before Carr through the int. It's all about keeping the DL fresh and playing sound bend but don't break coverage behind.

The run game forces a defense to deal with the challenging physicality involved in beating blocks and tackling, in a manner that the passing game does not. - Coach Staley (paraphrased)

[Charge!]

Ok so Ive seen the issue of allowing a team to run on you brought up as a huge concern of us fans. Pundits offer this as a reason why we are in trouble. Frankly its been a weakness with Gus’s D at the Chargers that cost us games for sure. However, Gus never made a real CHOICE of this to create a top pass defense…he struggled to really commit to stopping either Pass or Run.

To me this is a CHOICE by Staley. Its incredibly hard to shut down both the run game and the passing game. Rather than try to do both he puts the Dome up with 2 safeties high for a reason…and it has a good outcome.

Shutting diwn the run game by bringing more men up near the line leaves you exposed to the quicker scoring pass plays. If you have a lead this is BAD right? Teams can catch up quickly and am I wrong in saying this NFL is a pass happy league that covets quick score ability that requires fewer plays AND time. Teams are better now and more committed to wanting a higher octane passing game. They are never out of a game…ala KC snd Tampa for instance.

Shutting down the pass game yes means you may give up more rushing yards but you also force the opposing offenses to chew up clock time and take a lot more plays to score. Between the 20s the opposing offense has to execute many times to get down the field but when you get to the red zone the field is compacted so naturally we can play both run/pass a bit easier which I believe is why Staleys D may allow yards but less points. Many offensive plays statistically means our D has more chances to cause a turnover or get a sack to disrupt a drive to force a punt or nust get the ball.

You combine a D strategy like this choice of STOP THE PASS with a very good aggressive Offense that will consistently put up 24-30 points and we get to pressure teams into having them run the ball easier and but also the clock out and difficulty in the red zone OR pass into a stacked deck with tighter windows of opportunity to succeed. Teams choose the Run and chew up clock and limit ability to keep up with our scoring.

To me this is SMART analysis by Staley. Yes in the NFL we’ve all heard the mantra STOP THE RUN first but I believe Staley for the 2nd year in a row is showing STOP THE PASS is a better fit when you have a good offense like we do as he has shown stopping yhe pass actually led the league in less scoring…the REAL measure of success for a Defense. Plus his disguise the D alignment still keeps offenses guessing until after the snap to decrease the offenses ability to call the best play.

So what say yall to this? To me it just makes brilliant sense for Staley to build it this way.

I agree with all of that...... but the rams have a better DL that can stuff the run with little help (for the most part)...... I dont think the rams were at the bottom of league in stopping the run last year like Chargers were the first 3 games.....

Chargers surprised me and everyone that they were able to shut down the raiders run and the pass for the entire first half....... Raiders are a good team and showed that on 2 scoring drives that made it a one score game..... then Chargers rose to the occasion and closed out the game by scoring again and on defense......

I have to hand it to Staley, he and Bellicheck seem to be the only coaches in NFL that know how to best defend todays pass happy teams..... this is not old school anymore..... Staley thought it was ok to let our first 3 opponents run almost at will as long as they were not successful throwing the ball or getting in endzone much.....

This new system goes against/opposite everything ive learned about football the last 50 years, but so far its working, so I have to give Staley credit .....Im impressed!

[Critty]

The run game forces a defense to deal with the challenging physicality involved in beating blocks and tackling, in a manner that the passing game does not. - Coach Staley (paraphrased)

Staley knows exactly what he wants to do and why.
You don't need a good run game.
But you do need the run to impact the game.