POLL: Does Lombardi's Playcalling Stink?

Collapse
X
Collapse
First Prev Next Last
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Critty View Post

    Herbert has a league high 24 completions of 15 yards more outside the numbers this year.


    'Herbert is making a second-year leap to superstardom, and he's doing it by routinely making some of the most difficult throws in all of football. He has a league-high 24 completions of 15 or more yards on throws outside the numbers, which means he's hitting the most hard-to-access spots on the field with more regularity than anybody in the game.'

    My post pointed out 1) that you were calling 15 yard passes "deep" in your post, which is ridiculous, 2) that the stat you cited about the 15 yard passes gave no indication that those did not include routine short pass catch and run plays totaling 15+ yards, and 3) that Herbert definitely is (unnecessarily) being asked to make small window throws in Lombardi's offense.

    Comment

    • NoMoreChillies
      Outback Goon
      • Sep 2018
      • 1607
      • Australia
      • Send PM

      Last season people complained Lynn was holding Herbert back

      This season people complain Lombardi is holding Herbert back and want more of what Lynn did....

      Tis good drama

      Comment

      • Topcat
        AKA "Pollcat"
        • Jan 2019
        • 17402
        • Send PM

        Originally posted by chaincrusher View Post

        My post pointed out 1) that you were calling 15 yard passes "deep" in your post, which is ridiculous, 2) that the stat you cited about the 15 yard passes gave no indication that those did not include routine short pass catch and run plays totaling 15+ yards, and 3) that Herbert definitely is (unnecessarily) being asked to make small window throws in Lombardi's offense.
        I wondered the same thing...very few QB's can gun the rock into those tight windows...and sooner or later opposing D's will get wise to this and better disguise coverages/bait Herbie and/or jump routes and pick him...longer pass routes will force the safeties back and make those windows on the short/midrange routes wider...

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Critty View Post

          They are scheming specifically to open up outside throws and are leading the league in them. And the scheme is designed to also be an effective run formation as well. If you understood the scheme and tempo used, you would understand it's to keep the defense guessing about pass and run and where the ball will go and the the opponent defense will go vanilla because they are unsure where the ball is going to go. They are trying to use the whole field and intentionally trying to create high percentage completions. They lead the league in completions of 15 plus yards outside the numbers with 24.

          I have no issue with a scheme design to use the whole field, all it's personnel and to be effective like they have been on outside throws.

          You want more air yards and bombs away. Just because they aren't doing what you like to see doesn't mean they suck or are wrong in how they are gameplanning with their roster. But you certainly can say they are as if you know more about football than Staley and Lombardi. You should go coach and win a Superbowl since you act like you know better than anyone else. Why waste your brilliant mind here.


          83% of posters polled on this forum think I am right and you are wrong about Lombardi being a poor play caller. So, let's not pretend that this is just me saying this. Get a clue.

          The lack of point production by the offense relative to its talent does mean that the DC is having issues.

          The scheme works when Payton is calling plays, but much less so when Lombardi is calling plays. That also suggests that Lombardi is not that great of a play caller.

          Defenses that have brought lots of players close to the line of scrimmage have had success against us because we have refused to throw the ball deep. The passes and runs are in the same area of the field in terms of depth, so there is little to be gained by wrongfooting defenses on play calls.

          I question the constant use of riskier sideline passes to gain only a few yards. If the ball is going to be 30 yards in the air, giving the defense some time to react to the pass, I like the thought of gaining more than 5 yards on the play. I see a lot of small window small gain plays that seem unnecessarily risky for what we are gaining from them. I see defenses squatting on our short routes. I see lots of defenders close to the line of scrimmage and still no deep throws.

          I see Herbert playing much better than he did last year, but having a higher INT percentage because of Lombardi's misuse of personnel and poor play calling.

          Comment

          • Critty
            Dominate the Day.
            • Mar 2019
            • 5406
            • Send PM

            Originally posted by chaincrusher View Post

            My post pointed out 1) that you were calling 15 yard passes "deep" in your post, which is ridiculous, 2) that the stat you cited about the 15 yard passes gave no indication that those did not include routine short pass catch and run plays totaling 15+ yards, and 3) that Herbert definitely is (unnecessarily) being asked to make small window throws in Lombardi's offense.
            Clearly you didn't read the article.

            Herbert is having success throwing outside the numbers, which are longer throws and some of the most difficult throws. The ball has to travel twice as far on those outside throws. They are big time throws. The defenses are also playing to take away the deep shots. Herbert is QB great, the OC has him playing well within the system. And you focus on air yards and deep passes and ignore all other context. Since you said they aren't doing anything well deep. I posted the article to show they are using these longer throws outside the numbers to show you there is more than just the X axis there is also the Y axis. And they are leading the league on these type of longer pass plays.

            There are also the stats about how effective the offense is, they are one of the best in the league per play. How can an OC be terrible if the offense is one of the most efficient in the league?

            He's 91 of 124 for 983 yards and eight touchdowns on outside-the-numbers throws overall, giving him the most completions and third-most touchdowns in the league on these plays. The arm strength and touch it takes to make throws like this is just outrageous, but Herbert is out here making it look easy. And he's making defensive backs look ridiculous (and lose their minds) in the process
            You are playing a one dimensional game with your argument about the OC hurting Herbert's game with lack of deep throws.
            There is much more going on than simply cherry picking vertical air yards to make a case. Seriously, you have a pretty flimsy one stat argument. It's an accurate number but meaningless without context.


            Who has it better than us?

            Comment

            • RTPbolt
              Charger Fan till the end
              • Jun 2013
              • 2568
              • North Carolina
              • Send PM

              Herbs has made a few bad throws and some were on the WRs or like the last game throwing the ball into the helmet of a jumping DL.

              i think Lombarti and this whole offense are still evolving. The OL has been problematic when the right side can be abused…its the clear weak point and the smart D coordinators are going to stress it regularly and not let Herb throw with time. Personally I think we need time still to evolve this offense…its only 10 games in and no way have the players mastered all the options avsilable. Call me an optimist but I think given time, probably a player or 2 and better OL on the right side we can be a dominant offense. We have moments now and again.

              Comment

              • Critty
                Dominate the Day.
                • Mar 2019
                • 5406
                • Send PM

                Originally posted by chaincrusher View Post

                83% of posters polled on this forum think I am right and you are wrong about Lombardi being a poor play caller. So, let's not pretend that this is just me saying this. Get a clue.

                The lack of point production by the offense relative to its talent does mean that the DC is having issues.

                The scheme works when Payton is calling plays, but much less so when Lombardi is calling plays. That also suggests that Lombardi is not that great of a play caller.

                Defenses that have brought lots of players close to the line of scrimmage have had success against us because we have refused to throw the ball deep. The passes and runs are in the same area of the field in terms of depth, so there is little to be gained by wrongfooting defenses on play calls.

                I question the constant use of riskier sideline passes to gain only a few yards. If the ball is going to be 30 yards in the air, giving the defense some time to react to the pass, I like the thought of gaining more than 5 yards on the play. I see a lot of small window small gain plays that seem unnecessarily risky for what we are gaining from them. I see defenses squatting on our short routes. I see lots of defenders close to the line of scrimmage and still no deep throws.

                I see Herbert playing much better than he did last year, but having a higher INT percentage because of Lombardi's misuse of personnel and poor play calling.
                Who ever pretended that fans votes on forum aren't down on the OC?

                I will contend that most fans that voted down on the OC did not know that the Chargers offense this season is one of the most efficient in the league and one of the best ever in series conversion rates .....because if they did know that I find it hard to believe they would down vote him.

                Others lacking knowledge like you do and having a similar opinion doesn't make it a solid opinion. People used to have the opinion the earth was flat because of lack of knowledge, and I bet they all felt good knowing 83% of the population thought the same thing. Then actual facts and science showed how incorrect the majority opinion was.
                Kind of like the stats Popper recently tweeted and that Xenos posted on this forum to show the reality of the Chargers offense vs the fan perceptions.
                Who has it better than us?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Critty View Post

                  Clearly you didn't read the article.

                  Herbert is having success throwing outside the numbers, which are longer throws and some of the most difficult throws. The ball has to travel twice as far on those outside throws. They are big time throws. The defenses are also playing to take away the deep shots. Herbert is QB great, the OC has him playing well within the system. And you focus on air yards and deep passes and ignore all other context. Since you said they aren't doing anything well deep. I posted the article to show they are using these longer throws outside the numbers to show you there is more than just the X axis there is also the Y axis. And they are leading the league on these type of longer pass plays.

                  There are also the stats about how effective the offense is, they are one of the best in the league per play. How can an OC be terrible if the offense is one of the most efficient in the league?

                  He's 91 of 124 for 983 yards and eight touchdowns on outside-the-numbers throws overall, giving him the most completions and third-most touchdowns in the league on these plays. The arm strength and touch it takes to make throws like this is just outrageous, but Herbert is out here making it look easy. And he's making defensive backs look ridiculous (and lose their minds) in the process
                  You are playing a one dimensional game with your argument about the OC hurting Herbert's game with lack of deep throws.
                  There is much more going on than simply cherry picking vertical air yards to make a case. Seriously, you have a pretty flimsy one stat argument. It's an accurate number but meaningless without context.

                  Yes, I did read the article as it relates to Herbert. It supports my points 100% as far it can be considered.

                  I say that last statement because the article was written on October 15th, nearly a month and a half ago and before our last 5 games were played.

                  But the article is just as I thought it was. You referred to the 15 yard passes as deep passes initially, which was ridiculous. But beyond that, the article does not say that that means 15 air yards, so it seems to include short catches and runs on the sideline.

                  The article also discusses how Herbert is making incredible throws into tight windows. I am really not sure why you think having our QB throw with great regularity into tight windows is a good thing, especially when those throws are most often for a small gain only. I would like our QB to throw to wide open receivers down the field for larger gains.

                  My whole point is that we have refused to use much of the Y axis, and we have been using the X axis far too much with tight window throws for little gain. Defenses are squatting on us and we still refuse to throw deep with any regularity. Using the Y axis will actually help our X axis passes be more open and will create bigger plays for us, which means fewer well executed plays to score. Less converted plays to score makes scoring easier.

                  Finally, I have cited multiple stats that all support the same conclusion. We are in the bottom 5 in air yards per pass. That means we throw short a ton. We are efficient, yet we are not among the best scoring teams. That is because of our refusal to throw deep passes and make our drives easier.

                  By mixing in deep passes, this offense could produce many more points per game and could easily be a 30 point per game offense. The players have that level of talent. But Lombardi's play calling will never allow for that to happen unless he changes his approach.

                  Comment

                  • Topcat
                    AKA "Pollcat"
                    • Jan 2019
                    • 17402
                    • Send PM

                    Originally posted by chaincrusher View Post
                    I question the constant use of riskier sideline passes to gain only a few yards. If the ball is going to be 30 yards in the air, giving the defense some time to react to the pass, I like the thought of gaining more than 5 yards on the play.
                    This is another good point...those sideline passes are easier for a safety or LB to jump the route, pick it, or even go Pick-6...use sideline routes, but sparingly--especially if we need to conserve time in a 2-minute drill...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Critty View Post

                      Who ever pretended that fans votes on forum aren't down on the OC?

                      I will contend that most fans that voted down on the OC did not know that the Chargers offense this season is one of the most efficient in the league and one of the best ever in series conversion rates .....because if they did know that I find it hard to believe they would down vote him.

                      Others lacking knowledge like you do and having a similar opinion doesn't make it a solid opinion. People used to have the opinion the earth was flat because of lack of knowledge, and I bet they all felt good knowing 83% of the population thought the same thing. Then actual facts and science showed how incorrect the majority opinion was.
                      Kind of like the stats Popper recently tweeted and that Xenos posted on this forum to show the reality of the Chargers offense vs the fan perceptions.
                      You pretended by your approach in your discussion toward my majority based view, which is also held by writers apart from this forum and national pundits.

                      Popper's minority opinion is wrong. It is just that simple. Others who have written on the subject and have reached the opposite conclusion are correct. All of Popper's numbered individual points were wrong. All of them.

                      It is not a lack of knowledge on our part. Your suggestion that the 83% who voted that Lombardi's play calling stinks are all ignorant is both arrogant and incorrect.

                      It is your lack of understanding of the data that causes you to fail to reach the correct conclusion. Efficiency means squat. You might ask why if we convert first downs so well, we are not the leaders in points scored. What is the reason for that reality? How can an offense be both efficient and not score? Once you figure that out, you will understand why Lombardi is not doing a good job at calling plays.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Topcat View Post

                        I wondered the same thing...very few QB's can gun the rock into those tight windows...and sooner or later opposing D's will get wise to this and better disguise coverages/bait Herbie and/or jump routes and pick him...longer pass routes will force the safeties back and make those windows on the short/midrange routes wider...
                        Of course.

                        Comment

                        • Critty
                          Dominate the Day.
                          • Mar 2019
                          • 5406
                          • Send PM

                          Originally posted by chaincrusher View Post

                          You pretended by your approach in your discussion toward my majority based view, which is also held by writers apart from this forum and national pundits.

                          Popper's minority opinion is wrong. It is just that simple. Others who have written on the subject and have reached the opposite conclusion are correct. All of Popper's numbered individual points were wrong. All of them.

                          It is not a lack of knowledge on our part. Your suggestion that the 83% who voted that Lombardi's play calling stinks are all ignorant is both arrogant and incorrect.

                          It is your lack of understanding of the data that causes you to fail to reach the correct conclusion. Efficiency means squat. You might ask why if we convert first downs so well, we are not the leaders in points scored. What is the reason for that reality? How can an offense be both efficient and not score? Once you figure that out, you will understand why Lombardi is not doing a good job at calling plays.
                          I find it hard to believe that the QB coach for Drew Brees who was part of an offense that was a top 5 scoring offense doesn't understand the game better than you and the Chargers fans in the poll.

                          The Chargers offense have already went from 18th last year to 11th this year. And are scoring more points per game this season. They are only 4pt less per game than the league leader team which is lead by the Goat QB, and Bucs are a team that has better weapons and depth and better O-line which you claimed 15 QBs could have won superbowl with because they were so talented.

                          The Chargers being 4 point less than your juggernaut team just 10 games into this season for the new OC is massive fail to you. Really?

                          There are no facts to back your claim they would be scoring more if they threw more deep passes. It very likely would lead to more loses as Herbert holding the ball will lead to more interceptions, sacks and fumbles.

                          Only 10 games and you have fully concluded Lombardi is a bad play caller even though so many stats point to improved play by offense.

                          There nothing arrogant about telling flat earthers that they are mistaken and need to learn more about science. Or football fans that they are mistaken and need to learn more about football.

                          Chainy, you are clearly an incorrigible Chargers fan.
                          :beer:
                          Who has it better than us?

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X
                          😀
                          😂
                          🥰
                          😘
                          🤢
                          😎
                          😞
                          😡
                          👍
                          👎