POLL: Is it Time to Fire Lombardi?

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  • Topcat
    AKA "Pollcat"
    • Jan 2019
    • 17432
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    Originally posted by AK47 View Post

    I heard the Chargers are averaging 6+ yards per rush when running left. Not so hot running up the gut and running right. If we solidify the right side and find a legit big back we're in business for the run game.
    Yep. Our game plan, simplified, should be:

    1. Short passes until they stack the box.
    2. Long passes until they drop 2 safeties deep, and drop back LB's.
    3. Run left.
    4. Repeat.

    Comment

    • Sgt Schultz
      Bandwagon since 8/6/1960
      • Jun 2013
      • 372
      • Palm Springs
      • I know nothing
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      I've changed my tune. He is building something very special, in my opinion.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by powderblueboy View Post

        Why don't Mahomes and the Chiefs just go back to the big plays that got them to two Super Bowls?

        Its just so simple: send Tyreek deep! send Kelce up a seam! Harooom, haroom!

        Just do it!!!
        Different teams face different issues. The issues facing the Chiefs are not the same as those facing the Chargers.

        Our problem has been the lack of the deep and very deep passing games despite defenses occasionally squatting on our short passing game. The Cincinnati game clearly demonstrated what we can do if we would just try.

        IMO, excuses offered on this forum suggesting that teams are defending us like they have been defending the Chiefs and about how our improved OL cannot sustain the deep passing game are false.

        Our OC has a clear bias against dialing up designed deep passing plays. He has proven that with his history, his words and his play calling this year just as Lynn proved his early down running the ball game plan bias last year.

        I think 3-4 very deep passes per game is about right for us. That is one for every 15-20 minutes of game time. While I am generally fine with Lombardi's pass to run play calling ratio as it has played out, Lombardi is a little off in what he is doing in the passing game and he relies on running plays too often on 3rd and 4th down and 2+ yards to go, which I would never do when faced with the choice of Herbert in the passing game versus our running game. Let Herbert make big plays and key plays. No routes short of the sticks on 3rd or 4th down. Herbert just might be the most gifted QB in the whole league in terms of his ability to translate his natural gifts to the field and I think we need to lean into that.

        Comment

        • powderblueboy
          Registered Charger Fan
          • Jul 2017
          • 8803
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          Originally posted by chaincrusher View Post

          Different teams face different issues. The issues facing the Chiefs are not the same as those facing the Chargers.

          Our problem has been the lack of the deep and very deep passing games despite defenses occasionally squatting on our short passing game. The Cincinnati game clearly demonstrated what we can do if we would just try.
          SIMO, excuses offered on this forum suggesting that teams are defending us like they have been defending the Chiefs and about how our improved OL cannot sustain the deep passing game are false.

          Our OC has a clear bias against dialing up designed deep passing plays. He has proven that with his history, his words and his play calling this year just as Lynn proved his early down running the ball game plan bias last year.

          I think 3-4 very deep passes per game is about right for us. That is one for every 15-20 minutes of game time. While I am generally fine with Lombardi's pass to run play calling ratio as it has played out, Lombardi is a little off in what he is doing in the passing game and he relies on running plays too often on 3rd and 4th down and 2+ yards to go, which I would never do when faced with the choice of Herbert in the passing game versus our running game. Let Herbert make big plays and key plays. No routes short of the sticks on 3rd or 4th down. Herbert just might be the most gifted QB in the whole league in terms of his ability to translate his natural gifts to the field and I think we need to lean into that.

          "The Chiefs' intended air yards per pass attempt has dropped each of the last three seasons — from 9.1 yards, which ranked fourth in the NFL in 2018, to 8.5 in 2019 and 8.1 in 2020. But it plunged off a cliff in 2021. Kansas City currently ranks 19th in the NFL at 7.5 yards in 2021."

          Chiefs' offense struggles with lack of explosive passing plays

          https://www.kshb.com/sports/chiefs-o...ds%20in%202021.

          Same issue, they were making big plays the last two years (& going to Super Bowls), and this year they aren't: K.C. offense average yards per pass attempt have "plunged off the cliff".

          Consequently, their offense sucks!

          And now you say that teams are defending the Chiefs differently than the Chargers? Could you describe how teams are changing their coverage schemes on K.C., and how these schemes differ from what the Chargers encounter?

          This fan forum wants you to slice up some raw meat and feed us!
          Last edited by powderblueboy; 12-11-2021, 07:47 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by powderblueboy View Post


            "The Chiefs' intended air yards per pass attempt has dropped each of the last three seasons — from 9.1 yards, which ranked fourth in the NFL in 2018, to 8.5 in 2019 and 8.1 in 2020. But it plunged off a cliff in 2021. Kansas City currently ranks 19th in the NFL at 7.5 yards in 2021."

            Chiefs' offense struggles with lack of explosive passing plays

            https://www.kshb.com/sports/chiefs-o...ds%20in%202021.

            Same issue, they were making big plays the last two years (& going to Super Bowls), and this year they aren't (K.C. offense average yards per pass attempt have "plunged off the cliff").

            Consequently, their offense sucks! What's the deal with that?

            Andy Reid is such an idiot: why not have just Mahome's push the ball down the field so that they can go to the Super Bowl again?

            It's so simple!
            No, it is not the same issue. Defenses are defending the teams differently. The offenses of the two teams have played very, very differently.

            One QB forced far too many deep balls early in the season into deep cover shells when receivers were open underneath resulting in multiple game changing INTs, but has shifted to more throws underneath in recent weeks, but he is not as good at that because he has never had elite passing accuracy and has never been elite from within the pocket. The other QB has an OC that has eschewed the deep passing game almost altogether despite having defenses squat on receivers in the short game, presenting potential deep game passing opportunities that the OC has failed to take advantage of effectively for almost the entire season due to his play calling biases.

            Comment

            • richpjr
              Registered Charger Fan
              • Jun 2013
              • 21036
              • Nashville
              • Send PM

              Originally posted by powderblueboy View Post


              "The Chiefs' intended air yards per pass attempt has dropped each of the last three seasons — from 9.1 yards, which ranked fourth in the NFL in 2018, to 8.5 in 2019 and 8.1 in 2020. But it plunged off a cliff in 2021. Kansas City currently ranks 19th in the NFL at 7.5 yards in 2021."

              Chiefs' offense struggles with lack of explosive passing plays

              https://www.kshb.com/sports/chiefs-o...ds%20in%202021.

              Same issue, they were making big plays the last two years (& going to Super Bowls), and this year they aren't: K.C. offense average yards per pass attempt have "plunged off the cliff".

              Consequently, their offense sucks! What's the deal with that?

              Andy Reid is such an idiot: why not just have Mahome's push the ball down the field so that they can go to the Super Bowl again?

              It's so simple!
              First they need to claim Johnson off the Raiders practice than it's an easy road to the SB!

              Comment

              • Critty
                Dominate the Day.
                • Mar 2019
                • 5407
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                I'll just put this here. Enjoy.
                Joe Lombardi is getting most of the blame for the LA Chargers struggles on the offense but there are bigger reasons for the team's struggles.
                Who has it better than us?

                Comment

                • powderblueboy
                  Registered Charger Fan
                  • Jul 2017
                  • 8803
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                  Originally posted by chaincrusher View Post

                  No, it is not the same issue.Defenses are defending the teams differently. The offenses of the two teams have played very, very differently.

                  One QB forced far too many deep balls early in the season into deep cover shells when receivers were open underneath resulting in multiple game changing INTs, but has shifted to more throws underneath in recent weeks, but he is not as good at that because he has never had elite passing accuracy and has never been elite from within the pocket. The other QB has an OC that has eschewed the deep passing game almost altogether despite having defenses squat on receivers in the short game, presenting potential deep game passing opportunities that the OC has failed to take advantage of effectively for almost the entire season due to his play calling biases.
                  What do you mean by 'deep cover shells'? You mean defenses are primarily playing cover 3 or 4 against KC this year, but not against the Chargers?
                  What are your sources for this?

                  All this business about 'deep cover shells' and 'squatting' on receivers sounds a bit anecdotal.



                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Critty View Post
                    I'll just put this here. Enjoy.
                    1. Popper creates a straw man here in the worst way. He keeps referring to people calling for Herbert to throw the ball deep every play. I have not heard a single person advocate for such an outrageous plan of attack. I have advocated for 3-4 deep shots per game. I do this because even if those shots do not succeed, they should, at a minimum help the short passing game by forcing defenses to play us honestly. However, I think a good number of the long pass plays called will succeed just as they did last year.

                    2. Popper forgets that 2020 ever happened. He acts like DCs never saw Herbert before the the 2021 season began and that they had no clue how to defend him last year. That is just flat out wrong. Yet, we were able to throw the ball deep effectively last year. Nothing has changed this year except our OL is better and we are calling more passing plays as a percentage of total plays (both of which favor more, not fewer deep passes), and, of course, that Lombardi is the one calling the plays.

                    3. Popper creates another straw man by arguing that long passes on 2nd and 8 are unwise because they have a lower percentage of success. Why would we be running very deep passes in a known longer passing situation if we wanted to time the play properly? First down, any 2nd down and short, and any 3rd down and short if we will be going for it on 4th down are all better long pass down and distance indicators. And I actually like long passes on 4th down and short too as they are likely to produce a TD and produce it right now, but I admit that that is a risky call.

                    4. Popper fails to account for the OL improvement this year coupled with the team's deep pass success last year with the worst OL in the NFL. His suggestion that our OL cannot protect for long passes simply ignores what happened last year with a much worse OL.

                    I think Popper gets some things right, but he is obviously dead wrong with his take here. We need a better passing balance that includes at least some deep passes.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by powderblueboy View Post

                      What do you mean by 'deep cover shells'? You mean defenses are primarily playing cover 3 or 4 against KC this year, but not against the Chargers?
                      What are your sources for this?

                      All this business about 'deep cover shells' and 'squatting' on receivers sounds a bit anecdotal.


                      What is your evidence that defenses are playing against us the same as KC? What is your evidence that Lombardi and EB are calling similar plays?

                      If you can't see what the defenses have been doing to us, please re-watch all of the games.

                      Comment

                      • powderblueboy
                        Registered Charger Fan
                        • Jul 2017
                        • 8803
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                        Originally posted by chaincrusher View Post

                        What is your evidence that defenses are playing against us the same as KC? What is your evidence that Lombardi and EB are calling similar plays?

                        If you can't see what the defenses have been doing to us, please re-watch all of the games.
                        You seem to have lost track of the train of argumentation.

                        I have not made a claim, one way or another, on what defenses the Chiefs and Chargers face, and how they differ;
                        However, i did make a comparison between the two offenses in terms of the mutual reduction
                        in yards per pass attempt, and the sense that each team is not making as many 'big' plays as last year.
                        I furnished evidence on the matter; I suggested that it is an oversimplification to simply demand that they push the ball down field.

                        You countered that the Chief and Charger offenses face two different situations, because of the different style of defenses each team encounters.
                        Now, when i asked you to give some semblance of statistical evidence to support your claim (of the Chiefs facing (more?) 'deep cover shells' ),
                        you pretend that it is my responsibility to furnish this information.
                        :wtf:

                        In a rational debate, the person who makes a claim is required to furnish proof of that claim. You do realize that, no?
                        If you don't wish to abide by that format, just say so and i'll likewise just start making up shit and asking others to prove otherwise.


                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by powderblueboy View Post

                          You seem to have lost track of the train of argumentation.

                          I have not made a claim, one way or another, on what defenses the Chiefs and Chargers face, and how they differ;
                          However, i did make a comparison between the two offenses in terms of the mutual reduction
                          in yards per pass attempt, and the sense that each team is not making as many 'big' plays as last year.
                          I furnished evidence on the matter; I suggested that it is an oversimplification to simply demand that they push the ball down field.

                          You countered that the Chief and Charger offenses face two different situations, because of the different style of defenses each team encounters.
                          Now, when i asked you to give some semblance of statistical evidence to support your claim (of the Chiefs facing (more?) 'deep cover shells' ),
                          you pretend that it is my responsibility to furnish this information.
                          :wtf:

                          In a rational debate, the person who makes a claim is required to furnish proof of that claim. You do realize that, no?
                          If you don't wish to abide by that format, just say so and i'll likewise just start making up shit and asking others to prove otherwise.

                          I am not wasting my time to provide the obvious for you. Every semi-involved NFL football fan on this planet knows that teams have been doubling Hill a lot and playing deep cover shells against KC. The defenses are taking away the explosive deep passes that Mahomes prefers. If you do not believe me, feel free to do your own homework on that subject. It is the clear truth and whether or not I spend a bunch of time showing that to you does not change that.

                          Similarly, if you think defenses are playing the same coverages that I have just described above in the same way versus us, then I cannot help you as I have been assuming that you have actually been watching our team's games. Again, the truth does not change simply because you have not done your homework.

                          Offensively, it is clear that KC's offense and our ours are not similar. Again, if you cannot see that, please feel free to go back and watch all of the games of both teams. It is not worth my time to illustrate the obvious for you.

                          Finally, it is humorous in light of some of your contentions that you think that you are somehow waiting until now to "start making up shit". I think you have been pretty well on your way already.

                          Comment

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