Giants @ Chargers Pregame Discussion (wk 14)

[powderblueboy]

Guyton's speed is readily apparent. He runs by defenders regularly. Seriously, I thought you watched the Chargers games over the past two years. Guyton's 40 time has been reported at 4.35 from multiple sources. Guyton is much closer to Tyreek Hill than he is Palmer, Williams or Allen--just in a whole other class in terms of speed.

Funny how Herbert doesn't notice him running by defenders regularly; however, i generally notice Guyton blanketed by the nickel back.
Are you really paying attention?

On the clutch 4rth down play against the Chiefs that he dropped, he gained zero separation from the db;
Go watch Palmer to get an idea on how much separation can be achieved by an out route.

On that missile from Herbert, quite frankly, no Giant seemed to really bother with him.
The lead footed Logan Ryan, whom he barely beat, got a late jump primarily because he was more preoccupied by the much more dangerous Mdub on that dig route.

The multiple sources btw wouldn't happen to be you, yes?

[powderblueboy]

FFS, you keep missing the point.

I have been discussing Guyton as a complementary piece in our offense. That is why he has more value than Palmer. Palmer does nothing better than Allen or Williams. He adds nothing except reserve caliber depth.

Guyton, by contrast, gives us the pure speed deep threat that can take the top off of defenses as he has repeatedly demonstrated. That is something the team does not otherwise have. That is why Guyton is easily the more valuable WR for our team as it is presently constituted.

I am focusing on that trait because that is the trait that Guyton and only Guyton gives us.

Repeatedly as in two times this year outracing some of the slower safeties in the NFL.

If he could actually run a 4.35 40, maybe he could be that complementary piece: which would compensate for his uselessness on all other routes.

Missing the point means not adhering to your alternate version of reality.

veryourhead:

[dmac_bolt]

I agree with your take about VJ taking time to develop, but I do not think that VJ and Palmer are similar at all. Jackson was much bigger, faster and a better leaper. Palmer comes into the NFL as a better route runner, but lacking in the natural gifts that Jackson had.

In short, Jackson had a lot of what you cannot teach. Palmer has learned more of what there is to learn than Jackson had by this point in his career, but has significantly less of what coaching cannot give him.

Palmer lacks the tools to be like Jackson was. While not devoid of athletic talent by any means, he lacks elite traits (size, speed, vertical leaping ability, ability to create separation, uniquely good hands, et cetera). He has every appearance of a career reserve, though I think he is worthy of being on an NFL roster (as opposed to a player like K.J. Hill).

VJ was a unique athletic beast, one of our best WRs ever albeit too brief to register in history’s log of Bolt Greats. Completely different. But at the same time, those that say Palmer was not VJ, while true, don’t admit that Palmer is doing more right now than VJ did his first year. VJ was an injury scratch his entire first year if I recall correctly. It’s far too early to say what Palmer will be in year 3. He will never be the VJ freak beast but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t become an important valuable contributor. I like the kid so far. Claims he cannot get open appear widely exaggerated. He has every appearance of a solid #2 or #3, which is both valuable and necessary in today’s NFL

Where’s the guy that said Joiner was a speed merchant? Lol … Palmer looks to have more physical gifts than Charlie did, one could only hope he’s half as effective as our all time great. (Don’t mean to start the “he’s not Charlie” rants - i agree he’s not, yet).

[captaind]

I wish this were true, but there is simply no evidence at all to support the notion that Palmer is going to be better than Keenan Allen (which he would be if he were as good as DeAndre Hopkins).

I mean maybe Trey Pipkins will turn into the next Ronnie Stanley, but I am not holding my breath on that one either.

So now Palmer is Pipkins? Oh, man.....you're really digging now. This is beyond comical.

[Guest]

Funny how Herbert doesn't notice him running by defenders regularly; however, i generally notice Guyton blanketed by the nickel back.
Are you really paying attention?

On the clutch 4rth down play against the Chiefs that he dropped, he gained zero separation from the db;
Go watch Palmer to get an idea on how much separation can be achieved by an out route.

On that missile from Herbert, quite frankly, no Giant seemed to really bother with him.
The lead footed Logan Ryan, whom he barely beat, got a late jump primarily because he was more preoccupied by the much more dangerous Mdub on that dig route.

The multiple sources btw wouldn't happen to be you, yes?

Do your homework. You will see Guyton's speed listed both ways, each by multiple sources.

You are overselling Palmer big time. His catch on Sunday was routine. His catch tonight was a more difficult, better catch.

[Guest]

So now Palmer is Pipkins? Oh, man.....you're really digging now. This is beyond comical.

Both are third round picks that are very far from the players to whom they are being compared. I believe Palmer is better than Pipkins, but Hopkins is better than Stanley. There is a gigantic gap in both cases, which, of course, is the point unless someone is deliberately trying to miss the point.

[Guest]

Repeatedly as in two times this year outracing some of the slower safeties in the NFL.

If he could actually run a 4.35 40, maybe he could be that complementary piece: which would compensate for his uselessness on all other routes.

Missing the point means not adhering to your alternate version of reality.

veryourhead:

There is not much I can do to help you if you cannot even see the obvious, which happened all of last year and on every deep ball to Guyton this year.

[Steve]

Steve Largent was a guy who wasn't fast; but he didn't slow down while cutting, he almost seemed to be speeding up.

Just focusing on straight line speed is ludicrous in evaluating receivers.

More great receivers run 4.6 + 40s, than those that run 4.35 minus

Chad Johnson (Ochocinco) ran like a 4.7 40. While other guys who ran 4.4 40's would slow down to 4.7 out of a break, Johnson was still running 4.7.

Travis Benjamin was the other most recent WR with 4.3 speed, and you probably remember how that worked out. Pretty limited route tree, and when he lost his nerve as a return guy....

Jimmy Oliver was a 4.2 40 guy for us, and again never did anything for us or the Cowboys.