Chargers @ Raiders Game Day Thread / Post Game Discussion (Wk 18)

[jamrock]

So you’re telling me that if Staley had tried the 2 and didn’t get it, you wouldn’t have been mad at him for not settling for the tie and a playoff berth?

I’m telling you that if you’re going to be aggressive enough to for for it on your own 18 because that’s the culture and you have full confidence in your team don’t turtle up at the end of the game. Be consistent or your message is bullshit

[Xenos]

I’m telling you that if you’re going to be aggressive enough to for for it on your own 18 because that’s the culture and you have full confidence in your team don’t turtle up at the end of the game. Be consistent or your message is bullshit

Staley’s as aggressive as the analytics. I wish I had the win probability numbers for going for it there versus kicking an extra point but I don’t unfortunately.

[powderblueboy]

Staley’s as aggressive as the analytics. I wish I had the win probability numbers for going for it there versus kicking an extra point but I don’t unfortunately.

You, or someone, correctly said that a possible tie at the end of OT helped tip the scales towards caution.
Also, the offense wasn't running smoothly at the end: everything that wasn't a 4rth down play was getting stuffed.

[Canal Zone Bolt Fan]

No one said they were going to take a knee on 3rd down. They were running the clock down on 1st, 2nd and 3rd down as much as possible then running the ball. That isn't what you do if you are trying to get in field goal position for a win. You would want to get closer for a chip shot.

They could not lose either way. Out of field goal range take a knee or try a 57 yd field goal. No one would criticize either move. 47 yder same decision but kicking the field goal probably made more sense

All I was ever saying was it was intriguing all the thinking taking place on both sides given the down/distance situation and the fact a tie is a win.

Exactly! If a team is trying to go down the field and end the game with the field-goal they’re not gonna call three straight running plays. They are going to pass to get the ball down field for an easy chip shot game-winning field goal. On top of that, they’re not gonna run a play and then casually wait until there’s very little time left to run the next play and then call another running play. That’s exactly what the Raiders were doing. They were running the ball to run out the clock.

The entire NFL world sees this for exactly what it was, a colossal mistake by Staley. And those here are just trying to defend him because they like the coach. Fine you like him. I like him. But admit when he was wrong. At least he should be admit when he is wrong. Which with his big ego, put on full display in that second Kansas City game, he probably will never do.

[Canal Zone Bolt Fan]

If this wasnt a weird game that could get you in the playoffs with a tie, does anyone else think that Staley would have gone for 2 after the TD at the end of regulation?
I understand the conservative decision to kick the extra point for overtime but I was kind of expecting a "john harbaugh" type of decision to win or lose with a 2 point attempt.

we have to have a 2 point play up our sleeves for that exact scenario. I think he does but thought it too risky, even for him.

He’s been saying all year long they were going to go for it and put on the players shoulders to win. Well there was the opportunity to go for two and he didn’t.

[richpjr]

Exactly! If a team is trying to go down the field and end the game with the field-goal they’re not gonna call three straight running plays. They are going to pass to get the ball down field for an easy chip shot game-winning field goal. On top of that, they’re not gonna run a play and then casually wait until there’s very little time left to run the next play and then call another running play. That’s exactly what the Raiders were doing. They were running the ball to run out the clock.

The entire NFL world sees this for exactly what it was, a colossal mistake by Staley. And those here are just trying to defend him because they like the coach. Fine you like him. I like him. But admit when he was wrong. At least he should be admit when he is wrong. Which with his big ego, put on full display in that second Kansas City game, he probably will never do.

Could not disagree with this more and it has nothing to do with what I think about Staley. There were 6 seconds left on the play clock when the timeout was called. I have yet to see any rational argument or reason how that 6 seconds changed the outcome. The Raiders were lined up to run a play in the same formation they ran on the previous play. They were not going to taking a knee. If you want to fault Staley for the players he put in and how they defended the run, that is fair - but the timeout was not a mistake.

[dmac_bolt]

These things stood out to me about last night's game.

1. Going for it on 4th down and 1 from our own 19 is fine, but Lombardi has repeatedly failed to understand that we are not a running team (even after having been stopped on the play before). Unless it is 4th down and half a yard or less, we need to be passing the ball or trusting Herbert to run for it if nobody is open.

2. Tyron Johnson shoved it in our face big time by forcing a key fumble that changed the game early on, by drawing a holding penalty on special teams, and by giving the Raiders good field position with a couple of his returns. By the way, wasn't one of the big knocks against Johnson mentioned by several on this forum that he could not play special teams?

3. When we had the momentum at the end of the game, and given our struggles on defense, I really wanted us to go for two after the Williams TD with no time remaining. Again, with the game on the line, put the ball in Herbert's hands. I can live with whatever happens in that situation. I like our chances in that situation. Instead, we ended up losing for the second time this season because we lost the OT coin toss. In one scenario, we guarantee that Herbert gets a chance to win it for us. In the other, we do not.

4. On a very positive note, when Herbert made absolutely perfect throws to Palmer (on 4th and 21) and Williams (with no time left) for the late 4th quarter TDs and the absolutely perfect throw to Ekeler for the critical two point conversion, I really felt like I could identify with Neo's colleagues in the Matrix when they proclaimed, "He is the one!" We have the best QB in the NFL right now and that is a really good thing going forward. And I have to believe that our being two seconds from the playoffs and not getting in is going to make our players a little salty for next year, which is also a good thing.

5. I understand why the team chose to focus on the OL in the past offseason at the expense of keeping some of our players on defense or adding more players on defense. Protecting Herbert is of vital importance. But I am hoping that aside from locking down Williams and shoring up the right side of the OL, we put a lot of the considerable resources we have (draft picks and cap room) into upgrading the defense. The defense was just too soft for much too much of the season.

A lot to like in this post, a very welcome change.
#2 looked like a ball that was never secured, 100% returner drop fault. I don’t think Tbilly changed the game so much.

#4 jumps out - QFT - the plays he made in the 4th Q were nothing short of amazing. He Is the One

I would have gone with #3. as a visitor, play for the win right then and there.

I think #1 was a bit on the desperate / reckless side of confidence. Thats ok, not like 4th and 9.

Overall - I read all the Monday morning critiques and I fully agree Staley was not perfect, either for the season or that game.
But idunno - I’m still with him. I see something different in the kid from the last several rounds, I’m willing to invest in a bit of growth as I still have hope there is potential there. I still think he doesn’t have a competitive roster.

But we’ve got #10 - the best damn QB in the land, bar none.

[Canal Zone Bolt Fan]

Could not disagree with this more and it has nothing to do with what I think about Staley. There were 6 seconds left on the play clock when the timeout was called. I have yet to see any rational argument or reason how that 6 seconds changed the outcome. The Raiders were lined up to run a play in the same formation they ran on the previous play. They were not going to taking a knee. If you want to fault Staley for the players he put in and how they defended the run, that is fair - but the timeout was not a mistake.

Players and the coach on the Raiders said they were playing for the tie. It’s not the 6 seconds, it’s the fact that he called the time out thus putting doubt in the Raiders mind. Yes, we should have stopped the run. But we didn’t. 2 min left, they ran the ball, 1:30 left they ran the ball. No hurry up offense to get closer for a better field goal. No pass to get them down the field. No signs of them having any urgency to go down the field. They were running the clock out. A time out was called and it showed them that we wanted to stop and force them into a longer FG attempt, possibly giving us the ball back for our own shot. Everyone saw it, the broadcasters couldn’t believe it, every sports person I’ve heard talk about this game say the same thing, Staley shit the bed.

[richpjr]

Players and the coach on the Raiders said they were playing for the tie. It’s not the 6 seconds, it’s the fact that he called the time out thus putting doubt in the Raiders mind. Yes, we should have stopped the run. But we didn’t. 2 min left, they ran the ball, 1:30 left they ran the ball. No hurry up offense to get closer for a better field goal. No pass to get them down the field. No signs of them having any urgency to go down the field. They were running the clock out. A time out was called and it showed them that we wanted to stop and force them into a longer FG attempt, possibly giving us the ball back for our own shot. Everyone saw it, the broadcasters couldn’t believe it, every sports person I’ve heard talk about this game say the same thing, Staley shit the bed.

Do you believe they would have run the ball if Staley had not called a timeout? Or would they have taken a knee from a non-victory formation?

[gzubeck]

Do you believe they would have run the ball if Staley had not called a timeout? Or would they have taken a knee from a non-victory formation?

I think it made no difference whether he called the time out or not. They were gonna run the ball no matter what. The fact they made ten yards on the run is what determined whether they were gonna try for the field goal or not. If we would have stuffed them for one yard run gain they would knelt down for the tie. This is how stupid we handled the situation.

:facepalm1:

[Craig440]

I just watched the fourth quarter and OT again. Norton was getting killed. Did Staley ever put in Pipkin? He had done good in Nortons absence. Why didn't he put him in or did he?

[TTThunder]

1. I believe that the Raiders were playing for a tie when I watched it live, so I was shocked when we call a TO...

2. All media seems to agree on this, but I am still not sure (since a few here also made valid points)...

Only after reading Steve's post, that it confimed me what I think I saw...

3. Everyone makes a mistake (though it is an expensive one since I really would like Herbert to have a playoff experiences.)...

Learnt from it and improve...

Go Bolts!!!