Staley is a defensive coach?

Collapse
X
Collapse
First Prev Next Last
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Steve
    Administrator
    • Jun 2013
    • 6841
    • South Carolina
    • Meteorologist
    • Send PM

    #13
    It frequently happens with NFL coaches, that a new HC comes in with his background and then that side of the ball often lags. The best example was Brian Billick. #1 Offense in NFL history at the time in Minn as the OC under Dennis Green, but despite the SB win, the Ravens were never better than average on offense. Their defense was great, all-time great.

    If you go back and look at a lot of teams, it is kinda the norm, not an exception. The thinking is that HC ego often overrate how much a difference their coaching can make. So, they spend more resources on the "other" side of the ball, thinking they can coach "their" side up to overcome a lack of talent. It just doesn't work, at least not very often.

    Staley is very inexperienced. Often, when you have coaches like that, a team will make a special effort to get a coordinator or position guy who has been a HC before. That was a big part of why the Rams hired Wade to be the DC. Partly to let McVay focus more on the O, but to give him the sounding board. We didn't do that.

    The other thing that always worries me is when a coach is a "scheme" guy. Is he trying to make his scheme work, or is he trying to put together a D that will work for the players he has now? Pagano was always trying to make his D work, and there was always a stretch every season, where he couldn't get guys lined up correctly. How flexible is Staley willing to be about simplifying his D, or adjusting the personnel, or whatever? When it comes down to it, he has to make the thing work with the guys we have.

    I keep hearing about how the whole D didn't seem to have been installed this year, because of injuries and new players. OK, maybe those issues won't be as bad next year, but what about 2 or 3 years, will be shitty on D again because you have too much D to install quickly or for new players to pick up quickly?

    I don't think we will hire Fangio, but I think that would be an excellent move. 1st, he is a very experienced DC. He has been successful in college and on multiple teams in the NFL. He has been a DC for 5 different teams in the NFL, including expansion teams (2x), which has to be a unique experience. I don't know if I would consider him a scheme guy, but he certainly has found ways to make his scheme work, both in terms of being able to have inital success, as well as sustain success (several of his D kept playing at a high level well after he was gone).

    Comment

    • Boltgang74
      We Are The Storm!
      • Aug 2018
      • 4573
      • Send PM

      #14
      Originally posted by ChargersPowderBlue View Post

      Renaldo Hill exists.

      And I don't buy the excuses people make for him.



      People thought this was a really talented team. Not all people, there were those who knew better. But some people overrated the talent of this team. I called out on this two years ago when the team went 5-11. Last year I did a thread saying how the DL rotation sucks, how bad the DL is. So here we are now. More people realize these and have woken up. We heard how bad Bradley's scheme is when he was with LAC. He's not as bad as he is made out to be. We heard how it was all Rivers' fault in his last year with this franchise. He did well with the Colts and IND turn out to be failures this year. For the longest time this team's talent has been overrated. Now we see more people acknowledging the things I called out on.

      This team was bad at tackling even before this. The defense needs better tackling LBs.
      The team needs a new GM and scouts and if lil johnny twerp is anywhere near the draft room where the grown men are he needs to be yanked up by his daipers and thrown the hell out.One can dream I guess....

      Comment

      • Steve
        Administrator
        • Jun 2013
        • 6841
        • South Carolina
        • Meteorologist
        • Send PM

        #15
        Originally posted by Boltgang74 View Post

        Where did the Rams defense rank this year without Staley?Were they still #1?Because they still have Aaron Donald and Jaylen Ramsey there.
        Rams
        17th in 2021 -> Raheem Morris
        1st in 2020 -> Staley
        18th, in 2019 -> Wade
        13th in 2018 -> Wade
        19th in 2017 -> Wade

        For comparison
        Chargers
        23rd in 2021 -> Staley
        10th in 2020 -> Bradley
        6th in 2019 -> Bradley
        9th in 2018 -> Bradley
        15th in 2017 -> Bradley

        From https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/...Yards/dir/desc

        Sorting by yards allowed, and then counting the position (so I might have miscounted, but the numbers are close enough for comparisons).

        Comment

        • Guest

          #16
          So it kinda sounds like the performance of the Rams defense had nothing to do with the hire. But yet that was the thing everyone was touting about the guy. Because what other accomplishments did he have? None other than that. So where does that leave us? He is a paper tiger.

          His main accomplishment now is being known for risky dumb calls. I really don't know what to expect going forward. Can only hope he changes.

          Comment

          • NoMoreChillies
            Outback Goon
            • Sep 2018
            • 1614
            • Australia
            • Send PM

            #17
            Rams 1st with Staley
            Rams 17th without Staley

            Thats significant

            Comment

            • AFboltfan
              Registered Charger Fan
              • Nov 2018
              • 695
              • Balboa Park bench
              • Medical Simulation
              • Send PM

              #18
              Originally posted by NoMoreChillies View Post
              Rams 1st with Staley
              Rams 17th without Staley

              Thats significant
              And we went from 23rd to 30th... That is also significant. The Rams lost Brockers, Hill, and Johnson III on defense in 2021. Aaron Donald and Ramsey aren't the entire defense.

              Comment

              • chris9341
                Registered Charger Fan
                • Jul 2013
                • 784
                • Send PM

                #19
                Brandon Staley is in a position that no other Charger HC has been in since Marty Schottenhiemer. This team is a a few players a way from being superbowl contenders. We all know that the Run defense has been horrendous this season as it has been in past seasons we have 11 draft picks which we could use to our advantage and trade up and get a very good DL. Another thing that hurts this team is depth and you have the most cap space then any other team. But I am going to tell you the most important part that this team is missing and I know I'm the only one who thinks this is you need a number one back and I'm sorry but Eckler is not it. More specifically you need a power back, we have scat backs, you know shifty kind of runners but none of them that just gets that tough few yards. If you're going to be the kind of coach that Staley is and be aggressive and go for it on your own 18 yard line on 4th and 1 and you call a running play well you better have a RB who can get that 1 yard. Eckler is not that back. I love Eckler but he needs to go back to being a 3rd down back. I think he would actually be more dangerous if you just line him up everywhere, one play you have him in the slot then a few plays later he's lined up at rb and then you line him up at wr.

                Comment

                • madcaplaughs
                  Registered Charger Fan
                  • Jun 2013
                  • 414
                  • Send PM

                  #20
                  Staley's scheme would look a lot better with a DT that could hold his ground while commanding a double team. Preferably 2. We got a franchise LT in the draft last year, and it paid immense dividends on the OL. Maybe we'll get another Jamaal Williams this year (Davis, out of GA?).

                  Comment

                  • WindsorUK
                    Registered Charger Fan
                    • Jul 2013
                    • 5393
                    • Windsor, U.K.
                    • Send PM

                    #21
                    Originally posted by Boltgang74 View Post

                    The team needs a new GM and scouts and if lil johnny twerp is anywhere near the draft room where the grown men are he needs to be yanked up by his daipers and thrown the hell out.One can dream I guess....
                    :cheers:

                    Comment

                    • powderblueboy
                      Registered Charger Fan
                      • Jul 2017
                      • 8987
                      • Send PM

                      #22
                      Originally posted by ChargersPowderBlue View Post

                      Renaldo Hill exists.

                      And I don't buy the excuses people make for him.



                      People thought this was a really talented team. Not all people, there were those who knew better. But some people overrated the talent of this team. I called out on this two years ago when the team went 5-11. Last year I did a thread saying how the DL rotation sucks, how bad the DL is. So here we are now. More people realize these and have woken up. We heard how bPeoad Bradley's scheme is when he was with LAC. He's not as bad as he is made out to be. We heard how it was all Rivers' fault in his last year with this franchise. He did well with the Colts and IND turn out to be failures this year. For the longest time this team's talent has been overrated. Now we see more people acknowledging the things I called out on.

                      This team was bad at tackling even before this. The defense needs better tackling LBs.
                      It is in the Nature of fans to overrate talent on their team.

                      However, less talented than that Raider squad on Sunday?

                      Comment

                      • powderblueboy
                        Registered Charger Fan
                        • Jul 2017
                        • 8987
                        • Send PM

                        #23
                        Originally posted by NoMoreChillies View Post
                        Rams 1st with Staley
                        Rams 17th without Staley

                        Thats significant
                        Perhaps, or maybe the Rams personnel fortuitously matched Staley's defensive concepts best.
                        We've seen what happens when that is not the case this year with his Charger's defense.

                        I remember Staley talking about the importance of a certain DT on his John Carrol defenses:
                        how this tackle had special traits in the Division III environment that were invaluable.

                        Rams had him in Donald, but the Chargers just might not.

                        Comment

                        • powderblueboy
                          Registered Charger Fan
                          • Jul 2017
                          • 8987
                          • Send PM

                          #24
                          Originally posted by Steve View Post
                          It frequently happens with NFL coaches, that a new HC comes in with his background and then that side of the ball often lags. The best example was Brian Billick. #1 Offense in NFL history at the time in Minn as the OC under Dennis Green, but despite the SB win, the Ravens were never better than average on offense. Their defense was great, all-time great.

                          If you go back and look at a lot of teams, it is kinda the norm, not an exception. The thinking is that HC ego often overrate how much a difference their coaching can make. So, they spend more resources on the "other" side of the ball, thinking they can coach "their" side up to overcome a lack of talent. It just doesn't work, at least not very often.

                          Staley is very inexperienced. Often, when you have coaches like that, a team will make a special effort to get a coordinator or position guy who has been a HC before. That was a big part of why the Rams hired Wade to be the DC. Partly to let McVay focus more on the O, but to give him the sounding board. We didn't do that.

                          The other thing that always worries me is when a coach is a "scheme" guy. Is he trying to make his scheme work, or is he trying to put together a D that will work for the players he has now? Pagano was always trying to make his D work, and there was always a stretch every season, where he couldn't get guys lined up correctly. How flexible is Staley willing to be about simplifying his D, or adjusting the personnel, or whatever? When it comes down to it, he has to make the thing work with the guys we have.

                          I keep hearing about how the whole D didn't seem to have been installed this year, because of injuries and new players. OK, maybe those issues won't be as bad next year, but what about 2 or 3 years, will be shitty on D again because you have too much D to install quickly or for new players to pick up quickly?

                          I don't think we will hire Fangio, but I think that would be an excellent move. 1st, he is a very experienced DC. He has been successful in college and on multiple teams in the NFL. He has been a DC for 5 different teams in the NFL, including expansion teams (2x), which has to be a unique experience. I don't know if I would consider him a scheme guy, but he certainly has found ways to make his scheme work, both in terms of being able to have inital success, as well as sustain success (several of his D kept playing at a high level well after he was gone).
                          Good read!

                          Yes to bringing in Fangio....personality clashes aside.

                          I hear he'll be cheap for the Spanos (Elway still paying him): that will be uber appealing.

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X