Welcome JT Woods, DB, Baylor (R3, #79)

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  • Boltnut
    Registered Charger Fan
    • Feb 2019
    • 5398
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    Originally posted by chaincrusher View Post

    Jones will probably be better than any of our DTs by next year. Everyone seems to think we made these great improvements on our DL. PFF suggests that the improvements made were actually pretty marginal. Yes, they are better run defenders than the combination of Justin Jones and Linval Joseph, but it is not like either Johnson or SJD is the second coming of Jamal Williams. In fact, they are nowhere close.

    The consensus big board I have been citing had Jones at #44 overall. The Athletic's consensus big board had Jones even higher at #40 overall. When a team gets a chance to get a player like that in round 3, it is an easy choice.

    It is not a knock on Woods that a clearly better player was on the board. And just like we were not looking at certain safeties, many other teams were not looking at Woods. The odds strongly favored him being still on the board at #123.
    Staley chose Austin Johnson and Sebastian Joseph-Day very early on in free agency... because they do exactly what he wants them to do in his scheme. They make everyone to the side of them (and behind them) better... regardless of the grades awarded by PFF. Jamaal Williams (a pure NT) wouldn't be on Staley's roster... that's not what he does on defense.

    There is nothing to suggest that JT Woods would have been available @#123. The safety class talent dropped off significantly after the late 3rd round safety picks of Nick Cross (3/32) and Kerby Joseph (3/33). Starting in round 4, teams began to reach for less-talented safeties... Butler, Belton, Turner-Yell, Anderson...

    Instead of reaching for safeties (that would inhibit our ability maximize Derwin's talents) in the 4th round, we were able to choose RB Isaiah Spiller (great value pick).
    With this strategy (Woods, Spiller) our defense took a huge step forward and our RB depth/versatility improved significantly. I'll take that strategy everyday; and twice on Sunday.

    Comment

    • Critty
      Dominate the Day.
      • Mar 2019
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      Kiper is a fun draft analyst wether you agree with him or not.
      Just like PFN or Jeremiah, he was higher on Woods than consensus.

      "I'll tell you a guy I like who's underrated is J.T. Woods from Baylor," Kiper told Heavy. "You know, [Jalen] Pitre gets all the publicity and rightfully so -- he's a heck of a player -- but J.T. Woods is a good football player. I like him a lot. When I went back to watch two or three games from last year he jumped out, J.T. Woods in the third.."
      Who has it better than us?

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      • Topcat
        AKA "Pollcat"
        • Jan 2019
        • 17435
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        Originally posted by Critty View Post
        Kiper is a fun draft analyst wether you agree with him or not.
        Just like PFN or Jeremiah, he was higher on Woods than consensus.

        "I'll tell you a guy I like who's underrated is J.T. Woods from Baylor," Kiper told Heavy. "You know, [Jalen] Pitre gets all the publicity and rightfully so -- he's a heck of a player -- but J.T. Woods is a good football player. I like him a lot. When I went back to watch two or three games from last year he jumped out, J.T. Woods in the third.."
        Nice to hear that Mr. Toupee agrees with TT/Staley...

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        • wu-dai clan
          Smooth Operation
          • May 2017
          • 12905
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          Positionless defenders.
          Position flexible defenders.
          Disguised coverages.
          Evolving StaleyD concepts.
          Throw away your depth charts
          To the recycling bin.

          We play modern defensive football.
          You don't know ball

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          • powderblueboy
            Registered Charger Fan
            • Jul 2017
            • 8803
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            Originally posted by Boltnut View Post

            Staley chose Austin Johnson and Sebastian Joseph-Day very early on in free agency... because they do exactly what he wants them to do in his scheme. They make everyone to the side of them (and behind them) better... regardless of the grades awarded by PFF. Jamaal Williams (a pure NT) wouldn't be on Staley's roster... that's not what he does on defense.

            There is nothing to suggest that JT Woods would have been available @#123. The safety class talent dropped off significantly after the late 3rd round safety picks of Nick Cross (3/32) and Kerby Joseph (3/33). Starting in round 4, teams began to reach for less-talented safeties... Butler, Belton, Turner-Yell, Anderson...

            Instead of reaching for safeties (that would inhibit our ability maximize Derwin's talents) in the 4th round, we were able to choose RB Isaiah Spiller (great value pick).
            With this strategy (Woods, Spiller) our defense took a huge step forward and our RB depth/versatility improved significantly. I'll take that strategy everyday; and twice on Sunday.

            Sometimes, i think Chaincrusher is just talking to stone. What does Boltnut not understand about picking players, in order, based on the official draft consensus?

            To save reasonable fans this agony by prideful and wrong headed front offices, GMs should just hand the league office a list of position priorities,
            and Roger Goodell could just do the choosing of each team's selections on draft day, using the official draft consensus list.

            I think this would dramatically improve the process. GMs can trade up or back, but that is it!!!

            Comment

            • Boltnut
              Registered Charger Fan
              • Feb 2019
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              Originally posted by chaincrusher View Post

              I understand what the team is trying to with Woods and have since the night he was selected. That the player fits the team's system just means that that is a player that the team would consider drafting. It does not have anything to do with when the player should be drafted.

              My only knock on Woods as a player is that after seeing his INTs, I do not think he is quite the ball hawk that Staley and some on this forum think he is. I think most of his INTs were flukish in nature (right place, right time and not really due to closely defending at the time).

              The only other point that I have raised about Woods is that the consensus view of him is that he is not worth anywhere near the #79 overall pick. That is simply a statement of fact about the consensus view.

              I continue to be of the view that taking a consensus late 4th round player in the middle of round 3 is bad draft strategy as is failing to take advantage of an opportunity to select an early second round ranked player when that opportunity is present. And both together is twice as bad.

              Regarding the players you listed, Tycen Anderson is just as big (actually bigger in weight, length of arms and hand size), just as fast, and his 3-cone drill versus Woods' 3-cone drill (Anderson's is .3 seconds faster and in the top 3 of all combine participants) suggests that Anderson may be more agile. Having the same traits and possibly better agility than Woods, it is not readily apparent why he could do the same things that we expect the team to ask Woods to do. In terms of tackling, Woods is kind of a twig and Anderson is 14 pounds heavier at the same height and speed.

              In light of that, I think the clear best approach would have been to trade up to get the better player in Jones while hoping to get Woods in round 4, and having Anderson as a fall back option. Instead, we drafted for need and not value, which is not the best approach.

              I do not see Woods any sort of special player, but I agree that he would fit the role that you have described and certainly would do so better than Gilman.
              Making arguments based on consensus "experts" have little effect on me. If these guys were truly talented, they'd be working for NFL teams. They are often wrong and their lens is not focussed specifically on individual teams' schemes or needs. If Staley's eval said "2nd rounder", I have a hard time discounting his opinion over some click-bait writer.

              You talk about timed speed, weight, arm length etc. without considering any of the things that Staley values (instincts, ability to make reads, understand assignments, coverage skills etc.). Woods excels in every one of those categories over Tycen Anderson. And as you say, it's not even close.

              You say that you understand what the team is try to do... yet every point you make suggests the polar opposite.
              Woods was selected because he was better in back-end coverage (Staley's opinion) than any prospect still available @#79.
              Staley wants to bring Derwin into play-makers' role... and make this defense top-10 rather than bottom-10. A back-end defender helps him do that. A rotational IDL does not.

              Comment

              • Boltnut
                Registered Charger Fan
                • Feb 2019
                • 5398
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                Originally posted by wu-dai clan View Post

                Or something entirely different.
                I expect a lot of variations. There will be a number of different looks. All you have to do is look at the new additions on defense... but also hear what Staley specifically says. When he says that Derwin will be in the slot... when he says he wants Derwin in the middle... I take him at face-value. Derwin is Adrian Phillips... only better.

                Can't wait to see Derwin Unchained. Can't wait to see all of the different variations. Can't wait to see all of the new defensive players in this system.

                Comment

                • Critty
                  Dominate the Day.
                  • Mar 2019
                  • 5407
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                  Originally posted by chaincrusher View Post

                  Jones will probably be better than any of our DTs by next year. Everyone seems to think we made these great improvements on our DL. PFF suggests that the improvements made were actually pretty marginal. Yes, they are better run defenders than the combination of Justin Jones and Linval Joseph, but it is not like either Johnson or SJD is the second coming of Jamal Williams. In fact, they are nowhere close.

                  The consensus big board I have been citing had Jones at #44 overall. The Athletic's consensus big board had Jones even higher at #40 overall. When a team gets a chance to get a player like that in round 3, it is an easy choice.

                  It is not a knock on Woods that a clearly better player was on the board. And just like we were not looking at certain safeties, many other teams were not looking at Woods. The odds strongly favored him being still on the board at #123.
                  I would suggest you research the type of DL responsibility that is being asked in the Staley scheme in base and sub packages.

                  Staley whole plan is to dictate what happens and control the down. He wants to show 4-1 or 4-2 boxes, knowing what your team is good at and who is most likely to hurt you. He will show 5-0 looks to force a check to man protections. He also want to show the same backend look and have then various rotations out of them. He is going to keep an umbrella over the top and make the backend looks questionable and have the QB guessing. Force the opponent into the weaker part of their offense and have his defenders close that space quickly.

                  SJD and Johnson are not playing a Jamal Williams role so you might as well compare them to a rock and say the rock does a better job being a rock than they do and you would be just as right about that statement. But its all within the context of being completely inaccurate and wrong about personnel required on field for the Staley defense.

                  JT Woods at #79 is an awesome fit for the defense and is very likely to play a much higher percentage of snaps for LAC than Jones would have. So where is your value in trading away draft capital to go up and get a player who will play less snaps than JT Woods will in a Staley defense. All because of a consensus board that cannot and doesn't account for scheme and culture fits, as well as relationships with college coaching staffs that provide information on the actual person you are adding to the roster and locker room.

                  Jones is a good prospect and looks to be a good fit at NT with upside for Ravens. Let's say he is the starter. Based on that position history for Ravens. He will play 50-60% of defensive snaps.

                  JT Woods if he is a starter based on Staley defense history, will play 90-100% of defensive snaps..

                  Again value was your big selling point on the idea of the JT Woods reach and fail draft strategy by Stalesco.

                  Are you sure about this value you are crying about that was lost. Are you sure a trade up for Jones was the value move?

                  I think the math favors JT Woods at #79 for the Staley defense as better value than Jones.
                  Who has it better than us?

                  Comment

                  • AK47
                    Registered Charger Fan
                    • May 2019
                    • 1922
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                    Originally posted by Critty View Post

                    Staley whole plan is to dictate what happens and control the down. He wants to show 4-1 or 4-2 boxes, knowing what your team is good at and who is most likely to hurt you. He will show 5-0 looks to force a check to man protections. He also want to show the same backend look and have then various rotations out of them. He is going to keep an umbrella over the top and make the backend looks questionable and have the QB guessing. Force the opponent into the weaker part of their offense and have his defenders close that space quickly.
                    For us non technical folks. Staley wants his defense to put the offense into an MMA crucifix position.

                    For us non technical and purely visual folks:


                    Comment

                    • equivocation
                      Registered Charger Fan
                      • Apr 2021
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                      Originally posted by powderblueboy View Post

                      How much would you wager critty that draftniks who gave Woods a 5th or 6th round label watched very little of his tape,
                      and never played or coached the position?
                      Exactly. When you get such a wide spread in player evals, someone is wrong. It's probably the ones not watching tape. How do you get a consensus by averaging the ones who did the work with the ones who didn't?

                      The other possibility with woods is they are downgrading him for tackling. And I get that. But tackling is easier to develop than diagnosis and coverage skills.

                      Comment

                      • equivocation
                        Registered Charger Fan
                        • Apr 2021
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                        A handful of us were anticipating deep safety in the 3rd. I was focused on Nick Cross. But after watching Woods film anyone who gave him a 5th or 6th round grade is either stupid or copying off the stupid kids.

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                        • equivocation
                          Registered Charger Fan
                          • Apr 2021
                          • 2600
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                          Originally posted by Critty View Post
                          Kiper is a fun draft analyst wether you agree with him or not.
                          Just like PFN or Jeremiah, he was higher on Woods than consensus.

                          "I'll tell you a guy I like who's underrated is J.T. Woods from Baylor," Kiper told Heavy. "You know, [Jalen] Pitre gets all the publicity and rightfully so -- he's a heck of a player -- but J.T. Woods is a good football player. I like him a lot. When I went back to watch two or three games from last year he jumped out, J.T. Woods in the third.."
                          Woods will be playing the exact same role he already plays. Just he's supporting Derwin instead of Pitre.

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