AFC West Roster Positional Rankings

[TexanBeerlover]

Not really but I didn't set the presidence and you might be misunderstanding.

I'm arguing groups of recieving corps. Has nothing to do with where players are drafted. That was never mentioned.

He is saying our group of recievers are the best in the league and Guyton is the best 4th-5th reciever in the league.
I'm saying it isn't really close. We might be top 10 at best.

Those 2 guys plus their WRs Johnson, Claypool and throw in Pickens who is unknown right now, and they have Anthoney Miller who has had better seasons than Guyton and Palmer.........are better than Guyton.
This is just one example. I named 7 other teams without breaking down their players.

Misunderstood “Guyton is the best 4th/5th receiver in the league” on DEPTH CHART. So why not just dangle, this still young, but experienced veteran WR, on a cheap contract, out there and see what Telesco could net. If only a 6th-7th then ok, he’s not all that, but 5th-4th that’s another thing. Like a comp, my small brain needs structure to do the calculations. Know this, I’ve seen plenty worse 4th rd. WR’s even 3rds who couldn’t match the production I expect from Guyton this upcoming season.

However, claim that Chargers have the best WR group would require adding a top receiver with speed, in next years draft. Guyton may or may not be retained then, as merely depth piece.

[Guest]

There is absolutely no comparison between Eli Manning and Patrick Mahomes.

Eli was an average quarterback who gets too much credit for his Super Bowl victories, when they were really superior gameplans developed by Tom Coughlin and his staffs, and defenses (particularly their pass-rushers) pounding Brady.

Mahomes has one regular-season MVP so far, and has thrown 50, 38, and 37 touchdown passes in three of the seasons he's been a full-time starter. The one year he didn't reach 30 touchdown passes was when he was injured a few games. He has only 37 interceptions in 63 career starts. He's a two-time All-Pro, one of them first team. Herbert very well could achieve the same as or better than what Mahomes has and will accomplish, but as of right now ranking Herbert higher is pure homerism.

You are missing the point. The point is not a comparison between Mahomes and Eli Manning. The point of my comment is the improper reliance on team accomplishments in support of the quality of individual players. A player is not better or worse if that player is on a Super Bowl winning team. Jim Plunkett was not better than Dan Fouts; Eli Manning was not better than Philip Rivers; and Patrick Mahomes is not better than Justin Herbert because he was on a Super Bowl winning team and Herbert has not been. The notion that being on a Super Bowl winning team somehow makes the player better is ridiculous.

Further, we are discussing who is better right now and going forward between Herbert and Mahomes, not which player was better a couple of years ago, when Mahomes had a loaded roster combined with a great play caller and produced one of the most flukishly stat padded seasons ever. Right now, the Chiefs do not have Hill and have an aging Kelce. The rest of their receivers, while solid NFL players, are nothing special at this point with the possible exception of Moore, who we have yet to see.

You mentioned TD passes. Herbert had more TD passes than Mahomes did last year. Mahomes' stat padded early 2018 is totally irrelevant to the present. It is pictured next to the definition of the word "fluke" in the dictionary. It was not even relevant by the end of the 2018 season. This is 2022, not 2018.

Herbert is also more physically gifted than Mahomes. When you see the two players on the same field, you can really see a difference, one that favors Herbert, who is simply bigger, faster and throws a better ball than Mahomes does. I will take that advantage all day, every day.

Herbert was already better than Mahomes last year and is still ascending. Mahomes is not ascending and lost a key weapon. The gap in favor of Herbert should be even greater this year and it does not make me or pundits like Rex Ryan Charger homers for saying so.

If I could pick one player in the entire league going forward at any position, I, like Rex Ryan, would take Justin Herbert.

[Guest]

Something started on the old Charger SDUnion board: who was that famous poster? He came over here, had some tough protracted battles with Chaincrusher, who was patrolling his turf; and then he left never to be heard from again.

Here's my rankings of AFC west position groups (to get the ball rolling): I'll fill it in when i have more time. 4 points - 1rst, 3 points - 2nd, 2 points - 3rd, 1 point - 4rth


Offense:

QB:

1. Patrick Mahomes (AFC championship & Super Bowl appearance is why he beat out Herbert)
2. Justin Herbert
3. Russell Wilson
3. Derek Carr

Offensive line:

1. Los Angeles
2. Kansas City
4. Denver
4. Las Vegas

Wide receivers:

1. Las Vegas
1. Los Angeles
3. Denver
4. Kansas City

Tight ends:

1. Kansas City
2. Las Vegas
3. Los Angeles
4. Denver

Running backs

1. Denver
2. Los Angeles
3. Las Vegas
4. Kansas City


Defense:

Defensive interior:

1. Kansas City
2. Denver
2. Los Angeles
4. Las Vegas

Edge:

1. Los Angeles
2. Las Vegas
3. Denver
4. Kansas City

inside linebackers (weakest position group in the AFC west)

1. Las Vegas
2. Kansas City
3. Denver
4. Los Angeles

safeties

1. Los Angeles
2. Denver
3. Kansas City
4. Las Vegas

Corners:

1. Denver
2. Los Angeles
3. Kansas City
4. Las Vegas

Total: Chargers 30 points, Las Vegas 22, Denver 24 points, Kansas City 25 points

My take is as follows:

Herbert is better than Mahomes and the gap between the two should widen over time.

As a minor difference of opinion, I would rank LV's WRs 4th instead of first. Adams will not be the same player with Carr as he was with Rodgers. Renfrow is good, but not elite. They have little else and Johnson only seems to fit with Herbert.

The RB groups are close and none of them are great.

I agree regarding OL and TE rankings.

Defensively, I think our interior DL and LV's interior DL are equally terrible. Assuming we keep 6 interior DL players, 5 are in need of immediate upgrade. Both teams seem hell bent on having on having poor interior DLs. Telesco should get a "special" award for finding an interior DL player in Morgan Fox that actually carries a worse run defending PFF score than Jerry Tillery. Why waste one roster spot when you can waste two? As a player, and without considering the "knucklehead" factor, I would take the as yet unsigned Darius Philon over Tillery or Fox as an interior pass rush specialist that is every bit of the pass rusher while not being anywhere near the run defending liability that Tillery and Fox are.

Edge rusher is close between KC and DEN for worst in the division. Both are significantly worse than us or the Raiders.

I think I agree with the rest defensively.

[foreigner]

My rankings are all Chargers are at the bottom until proven otherwise... I hate this blue sky shiat...

[DerwinBosa]

You are missing the point. The point is not a comparison between Mahomes and Eli Manning. The point of my comment is the improper reliance on team accomplishments in support of the quality of individual players. A player is not better or worse if that player is on a Super Bowl winning team. Jim Plunkett was not better than Dan Fouts; Eli Manning was not better than Philip Rivers; and Patrick Mahomes is not better than Justin Herbert because he was on a Super Bowl winning team and Herbert has not been. The notion that being on a Super Bowl winning team somehow makes the player better is ridiculous.

Further, we are discussing who is better right now and going forward between Herbert and Mahomes, not which player was better a couple of years ago, when Mahomes had a loaded roster combined with a great play caller and produced one of the most flukishly stat padded seasons ever. Right now, the Chiefs do not have Hill and have an aging Kelce. The rest of their receivers, while solid NFL players, are nothing special at this point with the possible exception of Moore, who we have yet to see.

You mentioned TD passes. Herbert had more TD passes than Mahomes did last year. Mahomes' stat padded early 2018 is totally irrelevant to the present. It is pictured next to the definition of the word "fluke" in the dictionary. It was not even relevant by the end of the 2018 season. This is 2022, not 2018.

Herbert is also more physically gifted than Mahomes. When you see the two players on the same field, you can really see a difference, one that favors Herbert, who is simply bigger, faster and throws a better ball than Mahomes does. I will take that advantage all day, every day.

Herbert was already better than Mahomes last year and is still ascending. Mahomes is not ascending and lost a key weapon. The gap in favor of Herbert should be even greater this year and it does not make me or pundits like Rex Ryan Charger homers for saying so.

If I could pick one player in the entire league going forward at any position, I, like Rex Ryan, would take Justin Herbert.

You said it was as just as ridiculous to say Patrick Mahomes is a better quarterback than Justin Herbert as it was to say Eli Manning was better than Philip Rivers. You brought it up. It was a ridiculous comparison because Mahomes since Day One as a starting quarterback has separated himself as a top-three passer every year. His individual accomplishments trounce the likes of Eli Manning, Jim Plunkett, or any other average quarterback you want to bring into the conversation.

Herbert was not better than Mahomes last year. You may choose to believe that because Herbert had one more touchdown pass than Mahomes, and a two-time failure as a head coach in Rex Ryan (who fell in love with Mark Sanchez) made a stupid comment in an attempt to sound different from everyone else (like he's never done that before...), but it isn't reality. After a shaky start to the season, down the stretch Mahomes did what he needed to do to get the Chiefs another division title. Herbert didn't He's young and still has plenty of time to grow, as does Mahomes, but Herbert failed against the Vikings, Patriots, Broncos (the first time), and Texans. Those were all games I feel we had a better team than the opposition. That doesn't include the absolute disaster Herbert had against Baltimore.

I believe Herbert will keep getting better and could possibly become the best quarterback in the NFL. Right now he isn't, and I really don't care. My primary concern is the Chargers having the best team. Many fans, like yourself, are rooting for the quarterbacks over the team.

[Guest]

You said it was as just as ridiculous to say Patrick Mahomes is a better quarterback than Justin Herbert as it was to say Eli Manning was better than Philip Rivers. You brought it up. It was a ridiculous comparison because Mahomes since Day One as a starting quarterback has separated himself as a top-three passer every year. His individual accomplishments trounce the likes of Eli Manning, Jim Plunkett, or any other average quarterback you want to bring into the conversation.

Herbert was not better than Mahomes last year. You may choose to believe that because Herbert had one more touchdown pass than Mahomes, and a two-time failure as a head coach in Rex Ryan (who fell in love with Mark Sanchez) made a stupid comment in an attempt to sound different from everyone else (like he's never done that before...), but it isn't reality. After a shaky start to the season, down the stretch Mahomes did what he needed to do to get the Chiefs another division title. Herbert didn't He's young and still has plenty of time to grow, as does Mahomes, but Herbert failed against the Vikings, Patriots, Broncos (the first time), and Texans. Those were all games I feel we had a better team than the opposition. That doesn't include the absolute disaster Herbert had against Baltimore.

I believe Herbert will keep getting better and could possibly become the best quarterback in the NFL. Right now he isn't, and I really don't care. My primary concern is the Chargers having the best team. Many fans, like yourself, are rooting for the quarterbacks over the team.

No, I did not say the bolded part. That is just false, a complete and total failure to comprehend what I said.

Once again, for the third time, the point being made is that being on a Super Bowl winning team by itself means jack squat in terms of how good or bad a player is. There have been mediocre and even bad players on Super Bowl winning teams and there have been great players that never played in a Super Bowl. So when a poster counts Mahomes playing in Super Bowls as somehow making Mahomes better than Herbert, I disagree with that take because being on a Super Bowl winning team by itself says nothing about how good or bad the player is.

The mentality of posters who subscribe to that approach is the same as that expressed by Giants fans who think that Eli Manning was better than Philip Rivers because Manning was on two Super Bowl winning teams when the reality is that being on a Super Bowl winning team does not say anything about which QB is better. There was never any comparison made being made between Mahomes and Eli Manning.

The point is very simple. There are things that can reasonably be argued when debating who is better between players A and B, but being on a Super Bowl winning team is not one of them.

Herbert absolutely was better than Mahomes last year. He passed for more yards, more TDs and had a better QBR. And he did not have Tyreek Hill or Travis Kelce as receivers.

Rex Ryan took a team with basically zero offense and Mark "Butt Fumble" Sanchez at QB to two AFCCGs, almost as many as our team has been to in its history. Jimmy Johnson said he would select Herbert over every player in the league in a hypothetical draft.

Also, Mahomes did not "do what he needed to do". He did not injure Aaron Rodgers and Derwin James. He did not cause us to lose two critical OT coin tosses. He did not cause our players to get Covid. He did not cause Prescott to play like crap against KC. Mahomes was simply an NFL player for the Chiefs when those season altering events happened.

Herbert is the best QB in the NFL right now and going forward, though Josh Allen is a very close second.

Finally, your last statement is asinine. I am first and foremost a Chargers fan. Thankfully, though, I can also appreciate that we have the best QB in the league. The weakness of the interior DL and ILBs is a concern, though.

[bartman83642]

No one cares about special teams. Except if it's kickers and returners.

And fans if special teams makes or gives up a big play.

[blueman]

My rankings are all Chargers are at the bottom until proven otherwise... I hate this blue sky shiat...

So much this.

[sonorajim]

My rankings are all Chargers are at the bottom until proven otherwise... I hate this blue sky shiat...

LOL! Winning is nice but I love the anticipation & build up. Let's get this crap over with ain't my style.

[DerwinBosa]

No, I did not say the bolded part. That is just false, a complete and total failure to comprehend what I said.

Once again, for the third time, the point being made is that being on a Super Bowl winning team by itself means jack squat in terms of how good or bad a player is. There have been mediocre and even bad players on Super Bowl winning teams and there have been great players that never played in a Super Bowl. So when a poster counts Mahomes playing in Super Bowls as somehow making Mahomes better than Herbert, I disagree with that take because being on a Super Bowl winning team by itself says nothing about how good or bad the player is.

The mentality of posters who subscribe to that approach is the same as that expressed by Giants fans who think that Eli Manning was better than Philip Rivers because Manning was on two Super Bowl winning teams when the reality is that being on a Super Bowl winning team does not say anything about which QB is better. There was never any comparison made being made between Mahomes and Eli Manning.

The point is very simple. There are things that can reasonably be argued when debating who is better between players A and B, but being on a Super Bowl winning team is not one of them.

Herbert absolutely was better than Mahomes last year. He passed for more yards, more TDs and had a better QBR. And he did not have Tyreek Hill or Travis Kelce as receivers.

Rex Ryan took a team with basically zero offense and Mark "Butt Fumble" Sanchez at QB to two AFCCGs, almost as many as our team has been to in its history. Jimmy Johnson said he would select Herbert over every player in the league in a hypothetical draft.

Also, Mahomes did not "do what he needed to do". He did not injure Aaron Rodgers and Derwin James. He did not cause us to lose two critical OT coin tosses. He did not cause our players to get Covid. He did not cause Prescott to play like crap against KC. Mahomes was simply an NFL player for the Chiefs when those season altering events happened.

Herbert is the best QB in the NFL right now and going forward, though Josh Allen is a very close second.

Finally, your last statement is asinine. I am first and foremost a Chargers fan. Thankfully, though, I can also appreciate that we have the best QB in the league. The weakness of the interior DL and ILBs is a concern, though.

I'm not bothering with this. In your eyes it's an insult if anyone says any quarterback in the NFL you don't like is better than Justin Herbert right now, when he's been in the NFL only two years. If Joe Montana, Peyton Manning, and Johnny Unitas were in their primes right now, you'd probably be saying they're overrated and not nearly as good as Justin Herbert because they can't throw the ball as hard and aren't as gifted physically or athletically. And you value Rex Ryan's opinions simply because he says what you like. That is pure homerism and absolutely ridiculous at this point.

As of right now I think Patrick Mahomes and Aaron Rodgers are better than Herbert. There are other quarterbacks who are around the same level as Herbert--Josh Allen, Deshaun Watson (if he actually plays), and your boy Joe Burrow. I don't include Brady in that group because I think Herbert is clearly better than him now. If you don't like my opinion, I don't care. I'm looking forward to watching my team this season.

[beachcomber]

complete and total failure to comprehend

Once again, for the third time,
means jack squat

The mentality of posters

your last statement is asinine

as your fellow poster, just gonna say, that am not overly amused/humored w/the above, nor do I see the need to go over the top as such, and yes.... we are all Charger fans here, and.... how much Charge is necessary in your post.... to make your point.

your analysis/discussion is inordinately and routinely thorough and oft exhaustive, and of which am of the mind that the most of us appreciate the such.

my suspicion is that some of the such border on projection, and that this forum would be better served if we spent more time making our point and offering our perspective and less time belittling and discounting our fellow posters.

and not just directed @you Crusher, as I seem to be the poster boy for Jolt more oft than not, and there are others here who I wonder if they volunteer more of their own prognostications and observation, or rather they spend more time berating others here.

carry on sir, and thank you for your most heightened ranconteur, and.... less the rancor (just sayin').

[21&500]

No, I did not say the bolded part. That is just false, a complete and total failure to comprehend what I said.

Once again, for the third time, the point being made is that being on a Super Bowl winning team by itself means jack squat in terms of how good or bad a player is. There have been mediocre and even bad players on Super Bowl winning teams and there have been great players that never played in a Super Bowl. So when a poster counts Mahomes playing in Super Bowls as somehow making Mahomes better than Herbert, I disagree with that take because being on a Super Bowl winning team by itself says nothing about how good or bad the player is.

The mentality of posters who subscribe to that approach is the same as that expressed by Giants fans who think that Eli Manning was better than Philip Rivers because Manning was on two Super Bowl winning teams when the reality is that being on a Super Bowl winning team does not say anything about which QB is better. There was never any comparison made being made between Mahomes and Eli Manning.

The point is very simple. There are things that can reasonably be argued when debating who is better between players A and B, but being on a Super Bowl winning team is not one of them.

Herbert absolutely was better than Mahomes last year. He passed for more yards, more TDs and had a better QBR. And he did not have Tyreek Hill or Travis Kelce as receivers.

Rex Ryan took a team with basically zero offense and Mark "Butt Fumble" Sanchez at QB to two AFCCGs, almost as many as our team has been to in its history. Jimmy Johnson said he would select Herbert over every player in the league in a hypothetical draft.

Also, Mahomes did not "do what he needed to do". He did not injure Aaron Rodgers and Derwin James. He did not cause us to lose two critical OT coin tosses. He did not cause our players to get Covid. He did not cause Prescott to play like crap against KC. Mahomes was simply an NFL player for the Chiefs when those season altering events happened.

Herbert is the best QB in the NFL right now and going forward, though Josh Allen is a very close second.

Finally, your last statement is asinine. I am first and foremost a Chargers fan. Thankfully, though, I can also appreciate that we have the best QB in the league. The weakness of the interior DL and ILBs is a concern, though.

I have my suspicions....

Haha