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We're more likely to move on from Keenan next offseason than we are to hunt an "elite" WR, and I don't think we're moving on from Keenan next year. It would be awesome to give Herbert a weapon like Chase or Jefferson or Adams, but having a deeper pass-catching core might even make for a better offense.
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To use an automotive analogy, the offense is a car with a high-powered engine that isn't even fully broken in yet. This car has a six speed transmission, but-- so far-- hasn't been driven any faster than 60 mph, and has never even been put into 6th gear.Originally posted by Velo View Post
If the offseason additions to the RB group have the desired impact, it will set the stage for the offense to function smoothly on all cylinders, with minimal breakdowns.
Can't wait to see how everything comes together.Comment
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Today’s Popper report.
COSTA MESA, Calif. — The Chargers held their ninth practice of training camp Saturday morning at Jack R. Hammett Sports Complex.
Here are my observations, notes and takeaways.
Taking stock of key position battles
The Chargers have 10 training camp practices remaining. After Sunday’s intrasquad scrimmage, they will be more than halfway through camp. So now feels like a good time to take stock of two of the team’s most important position battles: right tackle and the No. 2 running back spot.
Trey Pipkins III and Storm Norton are competing for the starting right tackle job. Joshua Kelley, Larry Rountree III and rookie Isaiah Spiller are competing for the backup job behind Austin Ekeler — a crucial role, as the Chargers need a consistent and reliable presence there to take some of the load off Ekeler.
I caught up with offensive line coach Brendan Nugent and running backs coach Derrick Foster this week to get some insight into how these competitions are unfolding.
Right tackle
When Nugent was hired to replace Frank Smith in February, he wanted to give all the offensive linemen on the roster a “blank slate.” He got some intel in his initial conversations with assistant offensive line coach Shaun Sarrett, who was on staff last season. But otherwise, Nugent wanted the tape to speak for itself.
“I had no preconceived notions about anybody,” Nugent said.
He watched the film and then made his initial reads on what he was working with at right tackle.
“Storm played a lot last year,” Nugent said. “A lot of good reps. There are some things that he can work on.”
“The games Trey played, there were some things on there that jumped out that were encouraging,” Nugent added. Pipkins started two games last year, one at left tackle against the Chiefs in Week 15 and one at right tackle against the Broncos in Week 17.
Based on the film, Nugent and Sarrett decided that an open competition was the best course forward.
“Let’s even these reps out early on and compete with this thing, and hopefully one guy will just separate,” Nugent said. “Let’s just see, challenge them both each day. Is it separation day? When’s it going to be separation day? Just challenge them both to make the decision for us. Let’s turn on the tape, and anybody that turns on the tape will know, OK, that’s it there. And then if it stays close all the way through, that’s just a good thing for us because it’s building more depth.”
So far, that separation day has not come. Norton and Pipkins continue to split reps evenly with the first team in 11-on-11. On one day, Norton will take the first three reps, Pipkins the second three. On the next day, Pipkins will go first, Norton second.
Both players have looked improved during one-on-one pass protection drills, and that continued in Saturday’s padded practice, the Chargers’ third padded practice of camp and first since Tuesday.
Norton opened the period with an outstanding rep against Joey Bosa on the edge. Pipkins, meanwhile, has been more fluid and intentional in his movements. He also beat Bosa in a one-on-one rep. Bosa attempted a stutter move. Pipkins was initially off balance, but he recovered to cut Bosa off on the outside and smother him. I am starting to see Pipkins’ athleticism translate in these on-one-one periods.
“I feel like there’s confidence,” offensive coordinator Joe Lombardi said of Pipkins. “More consistency, understanding that you have to come out every day and be ready to go. I haven’t seen some of the dips, maybe, that we saw last year in his performance. A lot of consistency. He’s a talented guy. He’s been playing more like what you would expect from him so far in camp.”
There have also been down moments for both players. Bosa got pressure against Norton in the first 11-on-11 period that nearly resulted in a sack-fumble on Justin Herbert. Pipkins then lost to Bosa on a bull rush in an 11-on-11 red zone session, getting pushed back into Herbert.
This battle is dead even. The key moments are going to come in the preseason games and the joint practices with the Cowboys on Aug. 17 and 18. Nugent said the plan is for both Pipkins and Norton to play in the preseason.
“We’ll split the reps and see how it goes,” he said.
RB2
I started out by asking Foster for scouting reports on the three running backs competing for the second spot behind Ekeler.
On Kelley: “Josh is smart. He understands the game of football. He sees it through a different lens as far as just the protection aspect of it. He’s a really good pass protector, and he actually has improved from my first year into his second year, just watching him in one-on-ones and then getting some team reps and everything like that. That side of his game is really improving. He’s added some weight, and some good weight. He’s looked really good. He looks bigger. He looks stronger. He’s running hard. And obviously we haven’t had any live reps, but he is running as physically and strong as you possibly can without being tackled just yet. I think all that will express itself once we start putting the pads on and going full pads and tackling each other and taking each other to the ground. How many of those tackles will he break? I think he has, definitely, the capability of doing that. I think that’s his strong suit, is he’s a big, strong, physical back. And Josh has acceleration.”
On Rountree: “He’s a mass. He’s big. He’s a big body. His lowers are so thick and strong. What I try to continue to harp on with him is just playing with that power from the ground up, using your force and your power through your legs. … He brings a physicality about him. He brings this edge about him that I really like about him. And his pass protection has improved. And Larry has pretty good hands — really good hands. And he spent a lot of time in the offseason, I will give him that credit. In the offseason, he went outside, he caught a lot of Jugs balls on his own, he spent a lot of time in the offseason on his craft, spent a lot of time on the mental part of the game. He’s asking the right questions. It’s so different from a rookie (year) to a second year. … The best part of his game is just his physical ability to be able to try to break tackles, run through arm tackles. He has good, soft hands. And he’s a pretty good route runner as well.”
On Spiller: “He’s the mold of both of them put together, because he has size, he has good speed, and then he has soft hands. This guy can run routes out of the backfield. We’ve seen that. He’s been able to display that side of it. Obviously we haven’t been live, but he’s had some pretty good runs that look really good so far. I like that part about his game, because he’s got good vision. … I like the speed, the pass-catching ability and the ability to be able to run with the ball in his hands.”
In a perfect world for the Chargers, Spiller will emerge in the preseason games, when tackling is live, and take hold of this job. The team clearly loves his skill set. The only thing that could hold Spiller back is that he is young and, as such, needs to develop both mentally and physically. He was the youngest player drafted in April and turns 21 on Tuesday.
“I do get excited about the part that he is young because I think the ceiling for him is high,” Foster said. “So he hasn’t even tapped into how great he can really be. I think the best is yet to come. I think Year 1 will only just show the ability of where this thing could go and where it could end up.”
Spiller has shown some want-to in pass protection. Foster brought an example up from one-on-ones earlier this week. On Monday, Spiller lost a rep badly to Kyle Van Noy. The next day, he asked to face Van Noy again, telling Foster, “I want to prove that I can protect.”
“The willingness to want to go to do it,” Foster said, “that’s probably half of the battle when it comes to protection.”
I focused in on the running back-linebacker one-on-ones in Saturday’s practice and came away impressed with how all three running backs protected. Pass protection was once a weakness in Kelley’s game, but he has turned it into a strength. He had a great rep against rookie Tyreek Maddox-Williams, attacking upfield aggressively and delivering a powerful initial blow. Spiller had a really stout rep against Damon Lloyd early in the period. And Rountree won a rep against Amen Ogbongbemiga, whose speed and downhill mentality make him a good blitzer and run defender.
“They all are well aware that this is a competition,” Foster said.
Kelley is turning heads this camp, among both coaches and teammates. He looks way more comfortable in his cuts and decision-making on runs. He has been a presence in the passing game, too. He ran the best route of any running back during Saturday’s passing period, shaking linebacker Troy Reeder with a double move on an out route.
“This being JK’s third season, you would expect that he would understand the system a little faster, be able to go out and execute at a high level, and be able get what we want out of that No. 2 spot,” Foster said.
Rountree had the best run of Saturday’s 11-on-11 drills, exploding up the middle on a second down.
This competition remains wide open. The deciding factor will be which of these backs shows up in the preseason games.
“I feel confident that one of these guys will kind of separate themselves from the pack, and right now they’re all competing,” Foster said.
News and notes
• Derwin James sat out his ninth straight practice as his contract negotiations continue.
• During the 11-on-11 red zone period, Donald Parham Jr. limped off after Herbert attempted a pass to him down the left sideline. He laid on his back while trainers worked on him. Then he headed to medical tent. He did not return. After practice, Parham walked to the bus with his left thigh wrapped. We will get an update on Parham on Sunday, when Staley talks to the media again.
• Van Noy, Drue Tranquill, Mark Webb Jr., Tre’ McKitty and Jason Moore Jr.did not practice.
• The run defense was particularly strong during 11-on-11 drills. Emeke Egbule, Breiden Fehoko, Jamal Davis II, Forrest Merrill and Sebastian Joseph-Day all had run stuffs for no gain or losses. Merrill and Joseph-Day also had sacks in 11-on-11.
• Rookie defensive lineman Otito Ogbonnia continued to work as the third defensive lineman with the first-team base defense, next to Joseph-Day and Austin Johnson. He had his second batted pass in as many days. Bosa created the initial pressure on that rep while facing Norton.
• Rookie guard Zion Johnson is still looking dominant in pass-pro one-on-ones. In his first rep, he stood up Morgan Fox. On his second rep, he lost initial leverage against Ogbonnia but recovered to prevent the pressure. The defensive line and edge rushers worked on twists and stunts for the second half of the period, with two defensive players going up against two or three offensive linemen. Johnson was really crisp in this section of the period, working well with his teammates in passing off blocks. He only lost one of these reps, when Bosa got through on an inside stunt.
• Rashawn Slater and Khalil Mack faced off again in pass rush one-on-ones, and these battles are becoming the highlight of camp. Mack tried a spin move on his first rep, and Slater anticipated it, shutting it down by giving up some ground. The second rep came in the stunt section of the period. This time, Mack came with a bull rush and stunned Slater with the power, pushing him back two or three yards. Slater then anchored, as he often does, to recover and prevent the sack. Just a massive collision. Said Lombardi: “Rashawn just always amazes me at his ability to sit down on power. The flexibility that he has in his body to absorb and transition from blocking a speed rush, and that thing goes to power — his ability to sit that down, he’s so strong, but strong in a unique way. I look forward to turning those on every day.”
• Ogbongbemiga intercepted Herbert in the red zone. He was in coverage on tight end Gerald Everett on a seam route. Herbert underthrew it slightly, and Ogbongbemiga — who has been working with the first team amid all the linebacker injuries — made a great play on the ball.
• DeAndre Carter caught two more touchdowns during the red zone period — one from Easton Stick and one from Chase Daniel. Carter now has six red zone touchdown catches in training camp.
• Tight end Hunter Kampmoyer caught a touchdown in red zone 11-on-11. He came open in the left flat and Herbert hit him. Kampmoyer beat Ogbongbemiga to the corner before diving for the pylon.
• JT Woods got reps with the first-team defense, rotating in with Alohi Gilman.
• Rookie fullback Zander Horvath has some route-running chops. He spun Maddox-Williams around with an out route during one-on-ones. Gabe Nabers, meanwhile, beat Ogbongbemiga in route-running one-on-ones, despite a clear hold from Ogbongbemiga. Nabers was better than Horvath in pass protection, winning both of his reps. This is another competition that remains open. Horvath was working with the first-team punt return unit.
• The physicality ticked up a notch in this practice. There were a few plays where running backs were tackled to the ground. Ogbongbemiga had a big hit on Ekeler. And Cole Christiansen had a big hit on Leddie Brown on a check down. The Chargers are in pads Sunday evening for their instrasquad scrimmage.
• Michael Davis and Tevaughn Campbell were the gunners on the first-team punt unit.Comment
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It would take either a top 5 draft pick or around $30 million to get a receiver of that caliber. Even then, might not be as good as 1 of those 3.Originally posted by SK21209 View PostComment
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Ed McGuire/Tom Telesco are proving to be master builders/Cap Managers.
As far as I am concerned, at this time ANY discussion of Keenan Allen's departure from the Chargers is crap.
May Slayer retire as a Charger, after several more years of elite play.
Let's live in the moment--we are after the Lombardi. Now.We do not play modern football.Comment
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I’ve read here or there that:
- Carter had a return for TD a couple days ago and another 2 TDs as WR (yesterday?). He’s making an unchallengeable case that he is more than just a returner and more than Reed. Could be a real FA steal here. Is Reed odd man out if it continues or will they carry 6?
- Palmer continues to outshine Guyton according to majority of reports. Both are safe and have a role so no big deal. Camp gossip.
- Tranquil - wtf is his injury - am I the only one concerned he’s developing a trend?
- Tillery really could be cut. He’s not winning any battles against pretty much anyone in camp?
- Kelly “gets it” now and is much more decisive and added strength, but nobody really can judge RBs until they play actual full contact football. Rountree sounds like odd man out. This cold be the biggest battle in PS games
- Mixed comments on JT - he’s overwhelmed still, or he’s flashing real talent at times. Could be a 1 year project. If he gets it together, is Gilman odd man out?
- Pip v Norton - coaches continue to stress its still a tie, but I’m sensing they see more in Pip’s ceiling and he’ll end up as RT1
Damn, can’t wait for some football!“Less is more? NO NO NO - MORE is MORE!”Comment
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I would like to see this, his entire career as a Chargers, like Gates, but with rings.Originally posted by wu-dai clan View PostComment
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Agree - this year Slayer will be key to our first SB.Originally posted by wu-dai clan View Post
I’m not sentimental about the retire as charger stuff. This is a business and people need to not get weepy about shit. Everyone in the game fully knows it and are getting paid big boy wages to accept the situation. A club cannot keep players beyond their use-by date just for nostalgia or you degrade your team and do a disservice to Sport.
that said - Slayer will be here next season, not as sure for his final contract year - I’d say its 60/40 odds he is as he will be a great value compared to 2023 WR contracts. but its not a lock, and its not knowable right now so chatter is pointless“Less is more? NO NO NO - MORE is MORE!”Comment
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Originally posted by Ghost of Quacksaw View PostHerbert is going into his third seasonOriginally posted by sonorajim View Post
His 2nd season under this offense
His 3rd season with KA, MW, JG, Ekeler and Parham, his 2nd with JP
Palmer and Guyton are entering their prime years
Add in Everett and Stiller, who caught 75 passes in college
Don't dismiss McKitty
The offense is loaded. A shiny new WR would be nice, but not needed. Half the time 1st round WRs turn out to be busts. In 2020, Henry Ruggs, Jerry Jeudy and Jalen Reagor were all picked in the 1st round before Justin Jefferson. Six WRs were picked in the top 18 in this year's draft. You know some of them are going to be busts. It will be interesting to see this season to who lives up to the hype as rookies and who doesn't. The point being, the Chargers' offense right now is loaded with receiving weapons, with a QB who has been better than any other QB in league history through two seasons. I won't be surprised - as a matter of fact I am kind of expecting - if this offense is not the league's best this season. The FA or draft capital it would require to acquire a shiny and speedy new WR is better spent on improving the defense AND special teams. I'd like to see them acquire a top notch placekicker or punter than a WR. It is more of a priority IMO.
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It's often like reading tea leaves trying to discern a coaches intent; but in my opinion, there were the key phrases in that Popper article concerning the RT battle:Originally posted by dmac_bolt View Post
Joe Lombardi - “I feel like there’s confidence, more consistency, understanding that you have to come out every day and be ready to go. I haven’t seen some of the dips, maybe, that we saw last year in his (Pipken's) performance. A lot of consistency. He’s a talented guy. He’s been playing more like what you would expect from him so far in camp.”
Daniel Popper - "I am starting to see Pipkins’ athleticism translate in these on-one-one periods."
Daniel Popper - " Pipkins, meanwhile, has been more fluid and intentional in his movements (than Norton?)"
It's a tie because they want to declare that it is a tie......I'd be very much surprised if Norton starts: but then again, maybe not.
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Interesting camp battles, some surprises from younger guys improving (Kelley, Rountree, Pipkins), and vets (Carter).Comment
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