Don Coryell - Hall of Famer

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  • jamrock
    lawyers, guns and money
    • Sep 2017
    • 13113
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    #25
    Originally posted by Formula 21 View Post
    There is nobody around to champion for Don to get in the HOF anymore. Nobody. No coaches, sportswriters, owners or even a City. Only a few of us old guys who still remember him. And we don’t count.
    Dan Fouts has been passionately championing him for years. Probably still is.

    I saw Coryell work his magic at SD State, St Louis and with the Chargers. Most entertaining coach ever. By the time he got to the Chargers his system was refined and every game gave us something unique to see.

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    • northerner
      Charger fan since '79
      • Mar 2019
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      #26
      Originally posted by jamrock View Post

      Dan Fouts has been passionately championing him for years. Probably still is.

      I saw Coryell work his magic at SD State, St Louis and with the Chargers. Most entertaining coach ever. By the time he got to the Chargers his system was refined and every game gave us something unique to see.
      Yes, Fouts has LONG been a staunch supporter, but he is the only guy left (watch John Madden's speech at Coryell's funeral on youtube if you want to see a legend pay his respects to another legend).

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      • cmplxgal
        Registered Charger Fan
        • Jul 2017
        • 1848
        • New Jersey
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        #27
        Originally posted by jamrock View Post
        Dan Fouts has been passionately championing him for years. Probably still is.
        One year (2009) Fouts sent a letter to every Hall of Fame voter, urging that Coryell be elected:

        Former San Diego coach Don Coryell is one of 25 semifinalists for election into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. The final voting will be in February.Coryell, known as a passing-game  innovator, has a lot of support for induction.


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        • Steve
          Administrator
          • Jun 2013
          • 6839
          • South Carolina
          • Meteorologist
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          #28
          Originally posted by northerner View Post

          Yes, Fouts has LONG been a staunch supporter, but he is the only guy left (watch John Madden's speech at Coryell's funeral on youtube if you want to see a legend pay his respects to another legend).
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIeG...tateUniversity

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRIJK37i78Y&ab_channel=SanDiegoStateUniver sity
          - Fouts
          Last edited by Steve; 08-01-2022, 09:28 PM.

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          • Craig440
            Registered Charger Fan
            • Apr 2019
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            #29
            That video is GOLD. Thanks.

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            • MakoShark
              Disgruntled
              • Jun 2013
              • 2837
              • North Alabama
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              #30
              When is the vote?
              sigpic

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              • Bolt-O
                Administrator
                • Jun 2013
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                #31
                Originally posted by MakoShark View Post
                When is the vote?
                The final HOF committee is done during the Super Bowl week. I don't know when they will pick the contributor and coach to go to that committee.

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                • kgbpasha
                  #болтап
                  • May 2017
                  • 209
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                  #32
                  Every year that Don isn't in makes a mockery of the Hall.
                  That is all.
                  #boltupbitches
                  Last edited by kgbpasha; 08-24-2022, 06:51 AM.

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                  • Heatmiser
                    HarbaughHarrisonHeatMiser
                    • Jun 2013
                    • 4725
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                    #33
                    Thanks Steve. I hated Madden as the Raiders HC, for obvious reasons. But he was a great announcer and listening to that eulogy, it is clear he was a great man. I could listen to Madden for hours. So entertaining. And smart, too. RIP both John and Don. Two greats.

                    TG
                    Like, how am I a traitor? Your team are traitors.

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                    • JOJAX85
                      Registered Charger Fan
                      • Sep 2018
                      • 1625
                      • Irmo, SC
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                      #34
                      https://www.instagram.com/p/ChpPXMat...d=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

                      At least he's at least made it as a finalist.

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                      • Formula 21
                        The Future is Now
                        • Jun 2013
                        • 16188
                        • Republic of San Diego
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                        #35
                        Originally posted by JOJAX85 View Post
                        https://www.instagram.com/p/ChpPXMat...d=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

                        At least he's at least made it as a finalist.
                        Wow. That’s outstanding.
                        Now, if you excuse me, I have some Charger memories to suppress.
                        The Wasted Decade is done.
                        Build Back Better.

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                        • Formula 21
                          The Future is Now
                          • Jun 2013
                          • 16188
                          • Republic of San Diego
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                          #36
                          As Don Coryell clears Pro Football Hall of Fame hurdle, what’s the criteria? Who’s next?

                          Mike Sando
                          Aug 24, 2022

                          7


                          NFL decision makers are frequently asked whether this player or that coach belongs in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

                          The smart replies follow a similar theme.

                          “I don’t know,” they’ll say. “What is the criteria?”

                          As a Hall of Fame selector who recently joined the subcommittee for coaches and contributors, the criteria conundrum has gnawed at me.

                          After solving for elite wide receiver production across eras, I’ve turned my attention toward head coaches. The timing is appropriate as the coach/contributor subcommittee convened Tuesday to consider 12 candidates for inclusion among 2023 finalists. Don Coryell emerged from a group including Mike Holmgren, Mike Shanahan, Dan Reeves, Clark Shaughnessy, Art Rooney Jr., Buddy Parker, Bucko Kilroy, Robert Kraft, Art Modell and Roone Arledge. Coryell now will run unopposed as a finalist on the 2023 ballot, requiring an 80 percent “yes” vote from the full committee to gain enshrinement. It’ll be a huge upset if he falls short of the threshold, because voting “yes” for him will not force voters to choose him over any other candidates.

                          That work was completed Tuesday, forcing some big names — Holmgren and Kraft among them — to wait another year, which is fine as long as there’s a coherent process.

                          We don’t need criteria to identify George Halas, Vince Lombardi, Don Shula or anyone else whose credentials are so overwhelming. That caliber of candidate passes through without discussion. We absolutely do need criteria when separating Tom Flores from Dick Vermeil from Coryell from Holmgren from Shanahan from Reeves and so on. Otherwise, advocates for specific candidates build compelling narratives around those individuals until, sometimes after many years, the committee might be swayed.

                          In this environment, results become difficult to predict or explain. Flores makes it one year, Vermeil makes it the next, Coryell finally breaks through this time and no one can really say what separated them from someone else. Mystery grows around the process. What really goes on behind closed doors?

                          With input from NFL coaches and executives, and in consultation with other members of the coach/contributor subcommittee, below I’ve created criteria that might be helpful in evaluating head coaching candidates. I introduced this criteria to the subcommittee Tuesday and will continue to refine it.
                          1. Did the coach drive elite success in more than one place?


                          It can be difficult to know who deserves credit for what in football. It’s such a team sport. The farther away from the field and specifically from the football a Hall candidate operated, the more difficult it becomes to evaluate the candidate’s impact on winning and losing. Players can be easier to evaluate than coaches, who can be easier to evaluate than owners, who can be easier to evaluate than other contributors.

                          To determine what impact the head coach made, it’s helpful to know whether that coach succeeded in more than one place. Coryell and Holmgren posted winning records everywhere they worked as head coaches, whereas Reeves and Shanahan, for all their successes with Denver in particular, had losing records in two of the other three places they worked as head coaches. This hardly disqualifies them, but it does give Coryell and Holmgren an edge over them by this measure.

                          The table below stacks the five head coaches the subcommittee considered Tuesday by career win rate as head coaches, breaking out their win rates in each of their head coaching stops (excluding a single season when Parker was co-coach of the Chicago Cardinals). Blue shading highlights winning records.
                          Mike Holmgren .670 (Packers) .538 (Seahawks)
                          Buddy Parker .671 (Lions) .521 (Steelers)
                          Don Coryell .607 (Cardinals) .552 (Chargers)
                          Mike Shanahan .400 (Raiders) .616 (Broncos) .375 (Redskins)
                          Dan Reeves .601 (Broncos) .484 (Giants) .454 (Falcons)
                          Coryell won 61 percent of his games coaching the St. Louis Cardinals and 55 percent coaching the San Diego Chargers. Holmgren won 67 percent with the Green Bay Packers and 54 percent with the Seattle Seahawks, taking both to the Super Bowl. The Super Bowls gave Holmgren an edge, by this measure, over Coryell, who was 3-6 in postseason (Holmgren was 13-11).

                          I do think at least reaching the Super Bowl is a good threshold for the best head coaches. If you think that bar is too high, the general concept still holds. Driving success in more than one place lets us know the coach transcended a single set of circumstances. If a coach succeeded in one place and struggled in another, this naturally should work against his candidacy relative to a candidate who succeeded in more than one place.

                          Chuck Knox and Marty Schottenheimer never reached Super Bowls as head coaches. That might disqualify them from consideration in your mind. But each had winning records and playoff appearances with three franchises, which is hard to do. If they are considered in the future, this should be a leading reason.
                          2. Did the coach succeed with more than one QB?


                          This is the Joe Gibbs test. It’s a good way to separate the coach from the No. 1 factor driving success in the NFL in recent decades: quarterback play. Gibbs won three Super Bowls with three different quarterbacks, none of them destined for the Hall of Fame. Gibbs is the gold standard for a head coach succeeding with more than one quarterback.

                          The table below shows the Super Bowl-era coaches under consideration by the subcommittee this week and the quarterbacks each rode to the playoffs or Super Bowl. Shanahan reached the playoffs following the 2000 season in Denver when Brian Griese went 7-3 as a starter but gave way to Gus Frerotte (4-2) for the playoffs. Both are listed in the table.
                          Mike Holmgren Favre, Hasselbeck Kitna
                          Dan Reeves Elway, Chandler Simms
                          Mike Shanahan Elway Plummer. Griese/Frerotte, Griffin
                          Don Coryell Hart, Fouts
                          Holmgren reached Super Bowls with Brett Favre (twice) and Matt Hasselbeck. The one year he did not have those quarterbacks, he reached the playoffs with Jon Kitna. Reeves reached Super Bowls with John Elway and Chris Chandler as his quarterbacks. He also reached the playoffs with Phil Simms in Simms’ final season. Shanahan won with Elway and also reached the playoffs with offenses featuring Robert Griffin III, Jake Plummer and Griese/Frerotte. Coryell made the playoffs with Jim Hart and Dan Fouts, who both enjoyed their best statistical seasons with him running the offense.

                          Among current head coaches, Sean McVay reached Super Bowls with both Jared Goff and Matthew Stafford. Andy Reid has reached Super Bowls with Donovan McNabb and Patrick Mahomes, while enjoying success with quarterbacks ranging from Mike Vick to Alex Smith.
                          3. Did the coach turn losing cultures into winning cultures?


                          Taking over for a Hall of Fame coach and inheriting a Hall of Fame quarterback is easier than turning around a floundering franchise. When Reeves took over the Broncos in 1981, Denver was coming off a four-year run under former coach Red Miller that saw the team post a 40-22 (.645) record, fifth-best in the NFL over that span, even before the team landed John Elway. That was a far better situation than the one Reeves encountered when he later succeeded June Jones in Atlanta (the Falcons had gone 19-29 under him, only 24th in the NFL).

                          Tony Dungy never won a Super Bowl with Tampa Bay, but his work in turning around a Buccaneers franchise that had endured 13 consecutive losing seasons before his arrival might be as impressive as anything he accomplished while winning it all with Indianapolis, where he inherited Peyton Manning.

                          Coaches able to turn around terrible franchises should get extra consideration.

                          The table below stacks every head coaching job for the five coaches considered by the subcommittee: Coryell, Holmgren, Reeves, Shanahan and Parker. The jobs are ranked from largest to smallest gain in win rate for each coach over his predecessor. Coryell accounts for two of the four largest improvements. Parker and Holmgren account for the others. This table helps put into context the degree of turnaround orchestrated. The fact that Parker and Holmgren won championships as part of their turnarounds might need to become part of the equation. We can consider ways to factor for such things.
                          Lions McMillin (.333) Parker (.671) +.338
                          Packers Infante (.375) Holmgren (.670) +.295
                          Cardinals Hollway (.321) Coryell (.607) +.286
                          Chargers Prothro (.357) Coryell (.552) +.195
                          Steelers Kiesling (.379) Parker (.520) +.141
                          Broncos Phillips (.500) Shanahan (.616) +.116
                          Falcons Jones (.396) Reeves (.454) +.058
                          Seahawks Erickson (.484) Holmgren (.538) +.054
                          Giants Handley (.438) Reeves (.484) +.046
                          Redskins Zorn (.375) Shanahan (.375) +.000
                          Broncos Miller (.645) Reeves (.601) -.044
                          Raiders Flores (.610) Shanahan (.400) -.210
                          The Cardinals and Chargers were losing organizations before Coryell arrived and quickly turned them around. The Cardinals had missed the playoffs 25 consecutive seasons before hiring Coryell. They had won 41 percent of their games over that span, worst among the nine teams that operated continuously in the NFL during that quarter century. The team then won back-to-back division titles and reached the playoffs in Coryell’s first two seasons. The Chargers had missed the playoffs 13 consecutive seasons before hiring Coryell, who took them to the playoffs in each of his first four full seasons on the job, winning three division titles along the way.

                          Those types of turnarounds are exceedingly difficult to pull off once, let alone twice.

                          Green Bay and Seattle both ended long playoff droughts shortly after Holmgren took over as head coach. The Packers had missed the playoffs nine years in a row and in 22 of their past 24 before Holmgren. They then posted winning records in each of Holmgren’s seven seasons with the team, reaching two Super Bowls and winning one. They then went 8-8 in their first season without him, their worst record since before his arrival. The Seahawks had missed the playoffs 10 successive seasons before Holmgren arrived. They went to the playoffs in Holmgren’s first season, with Kitna at quarterback, and had seven winning seasons in his 10 years with the team, reaching a Super Bowl for the first time in franchise history.

                          Reaching Super Bowls following franchise turnarounds elevated Holmgren over Coryell in my mind, but the work Coryell did in turning around franchises, coupled with his undeniable impact on the game as a schematic innovator, made him a formidable candidate as well.
                          4. Was the coach directly involved in driving success via tangible ways, such as by developing QBs, calling plays, innovating with scheme, etc.?


                          Being directly involved in these important roles delivers greater value. It assures us that the coach was more than a figurehead.

                          Coryell stands as one of the strongest examples on the schematic innovation front, popularizing option routes and a brand of wide-open football that lives today. The subcommittee obviously felt that was enough to overcome his lack of postseason success.

                          Bill Walsh with the West Coast Offense is a giant in this realm.

                          Holmgren called the offensive plays throughout both head coaching tenures in Green Bay and Seattle. The Packers ranked third in scoring during his 1991-98 tenure. The Seahawks ranked 10th during his 1999-2008 tenure. Holmgren was very much involved with the QBs and the scheme in both spots. This elevates him.

                          Shanahan’s version of the West Coast Offense became famous for implementing zone blocking concepts that helped produce dynamic rushing attacks. Some of the more successful coaches in the game today use the scheme he popularized.

                          We know these coaches put specific important stamps on their teams in a hands-on manner.
                          5. Did the coach develop an impressive “tree” of assistant coaches, extending his reach/impact?


                          Bill Parcells’ coaching tree includes Bill Belichick, Tom Coughlin, Sean Payton, Romeo Crennel, Todd Haley, Tony Sparano, Al Groh, Chris Palmer, Ray Handley, etc.

                          Walsh’s coaching tree is legendary with Sam Wyche, George Seifert, Dennis Green, Holmgren and Ray Rhodes.

                          Holmgren’s tree includes Andy Reid, Jon Gruden, Steve Mariucci, Mike Sherman, Marty Mornhinweg, Dick Jauron, Jim Zorn etc.

                          Coryell can claim Gibbs, Ernie Zampese, Al Saunders and Jim Hanifan, plus John Madden, if you count their association at the college level.



                          Some of the greatest head coaches were also highly successful assistants, from Tom Landry to Bill Belichick to some of the Hall candidates whose careers we evaluated as a committee this week.

                          Holmgren was arguably the NFL’s best offensive play caller for two decades. When he took over for Walsh as the 49ers’ top offensive coach in 1989, there was talk about what an impossible task it was to fill Walsh’s shoes. The offense reached new heights under Holmgren, culminating in a 55-10 Super Bowl victory. One reason: Holmgren ran a computer analysis of Montana’s career INTs, sorted them by route concept and removed two pass routes where the majority of picks had occurred, because those routes “appealed very much to Joe’s gambling instincts,” as Holmgren explained at the time.

                          While Coryell was never an NFL assistant, Shanahan helped get the best from Steve Young with San Francisco, after Holmgren helped develop Young as the 49ers’ quarterbacks coach years earlier. Reeves was renown for his work in multiple capacities on Landry’s Dallas staffs, beginning as a player/coach.
                          Final thoughts


                          I would weight the first three categories more heavily than the final three. There will of course be candidates who do not fit this criteria as well as others. For them, we might make exceptions if the evidence warrants. As one current head coach put it to me during my training camp travels, “That is OK, just let us know when you’re making an exception.” Fair enough. First, though, we need criteria, and I think we are closer to getting there.

                          This wound up being Coryell’s year. I felt better about his candidacy after considering more closely the magnitude of the turnarounds he orchestrated, in combination with his trailblazing on offense. Holmgren was my top choice among coaches for the turnarounds he orchestrated, the elite postseason success he enjoyed and his work with quarterbacks. He appears to be in prime position for enshrinement in the near future.

                          The Hall seems receptive to suggestions that might improve the process. One consideration could be to separate coaches from owners and other contributors, which could help someone such as Kraft, but more on him in another column, as there’s ownership criteria to consider as well.
                          Now, if you excuse me, I have some Charger memories to suppress.
                          The Wasted Decade is done.
                          Build Back Better.

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