Creating Pass Rush

[Lefty2SLO]

Thought it would be a good idea to take this out of the Keenan Allen thread and start a new topic. To those of you more knowledgeable than I am on this kind of stuff;

21&500 brought up the concept of going away from the stud edge pass rushers, mainly because of the NFL's continuous enabling of offensive tackles to grab and hold, thus generally negating the value of those (highly paid) edge rushers. The concept is about resource allocation; is it better to have solid (inexpensive) edge setters at the end positions and generate pass rush in some other manner? If an average (and relatively inexpensive) OT can largely negate an elite and very expensive edge rusher's ability to effect play by creatively holding does it make sense to invest in other positions to generate a pass rush?

Would this concept work? Is anyone currently running something like this in the league?



Lefty2SLO;
I haven't thought about it this way, but it makes sense. Do we get edge setters (solid but unspectacular) and then . . . . blitz to get pressure? That way the defense is less predictable?

21&500:
That's exactly what I've thinking about all offseason.
maybe a bunch of lower round, big bodies to beatup and wear down an Oline for a few quarters and use DBs to blitz on occasion. Just seems like such a waste to draft these stud athletes at edge just to have qbs throw the ball before they get a chance to beat the OTs and the few times they succeed, the OT will get away with holding or the DE will get flagged for touching the qb.

[21&500]

Well said Lefty, I want to add that the DEs main responsibility would be to set the edge.
And be selective on when to truly rush the passer vs provide pressure/physically work the OL.
We can find these guys on day 3 and UDFAs.
270lber types.

[Bolt4Knob]

Thought it would be a good idea to take this out of the Keenan Allen thread and start a new topic. To those of you more knowledgeable than I am on this kind of stuff;

21&500 brought up the concept of going away from the stud edge pass rushers, mainly because of the NFL's continuous enabling of offensive tackles to grab and hold, thus generally negating the value of those (highly paid) edge rushers. The concept is about resource allocation; is it better to have solid (inexpensive) edge setters at the end positions and generate pass rush in some other manner? If an average (and relatively inexpensive) OT can largely negate an elite and very expensive edge rusher's ability to effect play by creatively holding does it make sense to invest in other positions to generate a pass rush?

Would this concept work? Is anyone currently running something like this in the league?



Lefty2SLO;
I haven't thought about it this way, but it makes sense. Do we get edge setters (solid but unspectacular) and then . . . . blitz to get pressure? That way the defense is less predictable?

21&500:
That's exactly what I've thinking about all offseason.
maybe a bunch of lower round, big bodies to beatup and wear down an Oline for a few quarters and use DBs to blitz on occasion. Just seems like such a waste to draft these stud athletes at edge just to have qbs throw the ball before they get a chance to beat the OTs and the few times they succeed, the OT will get away with holding or the DE will get flagged for touching the qb.

I think the key thing is - if you are payihg for Elite talent, are you getting elite production.

Has Joey Bosa dominated like TJ Watt, Chris Jones type level on the DLine. I am not even talking about JJ Watt or Aaron Donald level. I think Bosa has been a good solid player. But not sure is a dominant player and hte Chargers are paying for dominant. HIs brother is better than he is. Maybe they can play together

They have two guys with big cap hits this year - and I get part of the money is dead but in salary alone, Bosa is 24m and Mack is scheduled to be almost 23m. Total cap hits will be $58.4,

So to those who think Bosa would be a player to trade before Allen released - I actually agree with you. I don;t see Bosa being traded with Floyd or Clark on the market but the Chargers need a helluva lot more if those two guys are on the field

[Lefty2SLO]

I think the key thing is - if you are payihg for Elite talent, are you getting elite production.

Has Joey Bosa dominated like TJ Watt, Chris Jones type level on the DLine. I am not even talking about JJ Watt or Aaron Donald level. I think Bosa has been a good solid player. But not sure is a dominant player and hte Chargers are paying for dominant. HIs brother is better than he is. Maybe they can play together

They have two guys with big cap hits this year - and I get part of the money is dead but in salary alone, Bosa is 24m and Mack is scheduled to be almost 23m. Total cap hits will be $58.4,

So to those who think Bosa would be a player to trade before Allen released - I actually agree with you. I don;t see Bosa being traded with Floyd or Clark on the market but the Chargers need a helluva lot more if those two guys are on the field

The question as to whether we're getting elite production out of elitely paid players is really the crux of the discussion. If holding is called as it's defined in the rules the Bosa / Mack pairing would be exceptional (when healthy at the same time of course), but the way play on the field is being called negates their value to a large extent - so are they worthy of the massive contracts and the limitations their salaries place on the rest of the team? Can the defense be set up differently to allow average to above average players at different positions to effect play at an elite level?

I get that blitzing can be risky, but in this age of offense why not go with an aggressive D concept and hope that they're successful more often than not. Is that worse than having a team pound it's way down the field 4 yds at a time?

Maybe this just comes down to aggressive vs passive defensive philosophy?

[wu-dai clan]

Speed pass rushers with spin moves.
Stunts.
That creates vulnerabilities.
There must be contain plus inside pressure from DTs and blitzing LBs.

[Bolt4Knob]

Speed pass rushers with spin moves.
Stunts.
That creates vulnerabilities.
There must be contain plus inside pressure from DTs and blitzing LBs.

Wu - I asked about Murray earlier - the other thread - good blitzer you said

What about Tranq - are you on the sign Tranq or wait and see the numbers on Tranq

[wu-dai clan]

Wu - I asked about Murray earlier - the other thread - good blitzer you said

What about Tranq - are you on the sign Tranq or wait and see the numbers on Tranq

My guess us that we will lose Tranq.

The dollars won't make sense

[Lefty2SLO]

My guess us that we will lose Tranq.

The dollars won't make sense

That will be - not good. Doesn't leave too much on the table for our LB corp.

[Critty]

Trade Joey Bosa for Aaron Donald would create more pass rush. Draft Tuipulotu-Edge he lead the nation in sacks.
No need to blitz.

[wu-dai clan]

Trade Joey Bosa for Aaron Donald would create more pass rush. Draft Tuipulotu-Edge he lead the nation in sacks.
No need to blitz.

Not unless Donald is part of the Ramsey trade (says Derwin).

Ha Ha.

[wu-dai clan]

That will be - not good. Doesn't leave too much on the table for our LB corp.

I love Tranq.
Murray would suffer.
Charger fans would suffer.
The only solutions I see would be Troy Reeder or Jack Campbell.

[NoMoreChillies]

good edge setters
big NT collapsing the pocket.
blitzing LB or SS

one can dream...