Welcome Coach Butch Barry - Fixing the Offensive Line

[powderblueboy]

Withholding water is actually recognized as being extremely dangerous for players as big as some OL. The Stringer institute was established for a reason (Korey Stringer, all pro LT for Minn died post practice from heat stress).

Vince Lombardi was often portraited as the kind of negative reinforcement, and he did use it, but even he could go too far. He had a famous incident in TC his rookie year, where Lombardi went overboard and was just going too far on future Hall of Fame OG Jerry Kramer. To top it off Lombardi's son was watching and even he could sense that his dad went too far. The first thing Lombardi did after the practice was to go to Kramer, and tell him that one day he would be the best OG in football, which of course is exactly what happened. However, some people have claimed that Kramer was on the verge of quitting at that point (can't find a citation for that), which is why the locker room was empty except for Lombardi, his son and Kramer.
As far as motivation, no one method works for everyone. Some players respond better to some methods than others. And for some players it is not a matter of motivation at all. Either mentally or physically, they aren't good enough. Coaches try to make the players as skillful as possible and try to get every player to execute them perfectly. But most never will. There are degrees of imperfection, just like every job has. The point is coaches need the players to strive for perfection even if the ultimate goal (perfection) is out of reach. Everyone makes mistakes all the time. It is a matter of learning, trying to minimize them and not repeat them.

Michigan State basketball coach Tom Izzo used to forbid the phrase "my bad", because too many players kept making the same mistakes over and over. He likes to call them "your bads" to emphasize that they are unacceptable mistakes.

''My bad'' generally means that I did it, but I really couldn't give a fuck about it, one way or the other.
That is why they kept on screwing up in the same way.

Izzo finally realized that.

[sonorajim]

Withholding water is actually recognized as being extremely dangerous for players as big as some OL. The Stringer institute was established for a reason (Korey Stringer, all pro LT for Minn died post practice from heat stress).

Vince Lombardi was often portraited as the kind of negative reinforcement, and he did use it, but even he could go too far. He had a famous incident in TC his rookie year, where Lombardi went overboard and was just going too far on future Hall of Fame OG Jerry Kramer. To top it off Lombardi's son was watching and even he could sense that his dad went too far. The first thing Lombardi did after the practice was to go to Kramer, and tell him that one day he would be the best OG in football, which of course is exactly what happened. However, some people have claimed that Kramer was on the verge of quitting at that point (can't find a citation for that), which is why the locker room was empty except for Lombardi, his son and Kramer.
As far as motivation, no one method works for everyone. Some players respond better to some methods than others. And for some players it is not a matter of motivation at all. Either mentally or physically, they aren't good enough. Coaches try to make the players as skillful as possible and try to get every player to execute them perfectly. But most never will. There are degrees of imperfection, just like every job has. The point is coaches need the players to strive for perfection even if the ultimate goal (perfection) is out of reach. Everyone makes mistakes all the time. It is a matter of learning, trying to minimize them and not repeat them.

Michigan State basketball coach Tom Izzo used to forbid the phrase "my bad", because too many players kept making the same mistakes over and over. He likes to call them "your bads" to emphasize that they are unacceptable mistakes.

Drive home unit identity and the need to improve every day. Individual specifics are different and coaches have to pick their shots.

[Steve]

Negative reinforcement is really old school...I'll never forget a report back in the 70's that during practices, Rams HC George Allen was actually withholding water from players he felt were underperforming...imagine that happening nowadays...

Withholding water is actually recognized as being extremely dangerous for players as big as some OL. The Stringer institute was established for a reason (Korey Stringer, all pro LT for Minn died post practice from heat stress).

Vince Lombardi was often portraited as the kind of negative reinforcement, and he did use it, but even he could go too far. He had a famous incident in TC his rookie year, where Lombardi went overboard and was just going too far on future Hall of Fame OG Jerry Kramer. To top it off Lombardi's son was watching and even he could sense that his dad went too far. The first thing Lombardi did after the practice was to go to Kramer, and tell him that one day he would be the best OG in football, which of course is exactly what happened. However, some people have claimed that Kramer was on the verge of quitting at that point (can't find a citation for that), which is why the locker room was empty except for Lombardi, his son and Kramer.
As far as motivation, no one method works for everyone. Some players respond better to some methods than others. And for some players it is not a matter of motivation at all. Either mentally or physically, they aren't good enough. Coaches try to make the players as skillful as possible and try to get every player to execute them perfectly. But most never will. There are degrees of imperfection, just like every job has. The point is coaches need the players to strive for perfection even if the ultimate goal (perfection) is out of reach. Everyone makes mistakes all the time. It is a matter of learning, trying to minimize them and not repeat them.

Michigan State basketball coach Tom Izzo used to forbid the phrase "my bad", because too many players kept making the same mistakes over and over. He likes to call them "your bads" to emphasize that they are unacceptable mistakes.

[Topcat]

Negative reinforcement only works with certain types of people ..... if it comes across as belittling, and there is not much of a relationship, then it will fail.

We will see .... they (McD and Harbaugh) are well aware of how he interacts with players.

Positive reinforcement also can fail, because a player will never know what he is doing wrong, or if he is being bullshitted .... as we saw last year.

To be honest with Boze - that you are the worst starting center in the league, and couldn't be a backup on many teams - would have been shattering.
But we saw how positive reinforcement sadly failed.

After a while, Boze must have though that getting blown up and always missing stunts was normal.

Negative reinforcement is really old school...I'll never forget a report back in the 70's that during practices, Rams HC George Allen was actually withholding water from players he felt were underperforming...imagine that happening nowadays...

[Heatmiser]

Thanks! He really turned the line around. I forgot all about him. He was a great coach.

[sonorajim]

Anyone remember or recall who Marty’s OL coach was here in season one? I remember Marty was pretty direct with the OL in training camp about playing like a word that starts with p and refers to cats (rated G, guys). He told them he watched all the film and what they did would no longer be tolerated. Seemed like we always had very good OL under Marty

Hudson Houck- 2002 Chargers OL Coach. Coached a very good Dallas OL for 9 years before coming to Chargers.

[sonorajim]

Anyone remember or recall who Marty’s OL coach was here in season one? I remember Marty was pretty direct with the OL in training camp about playing like a word that starts with p and refers to cats (rated G, guys). He told them he watched all the film and what they did would no longer be tolerated. Seemed like we always had very good OL under Marty

I visited TC with Marty a few times. He worked with the blockers quite a bit one on one, demonstrating posture, etc. The players liked him.

[Heatmiser]

Anyone remember or recall who Marty’s OL coach was here in season one? I remember Marty was pretty direct with the OL in training camp about playing like a word that starts with p and refers to cats (rated G, guys). He told them he watched all the film and what they did would no longer be tolerated. Seemed like we always had very good OL under Marty

[sonorajim]

The best players and leaders of the line, Alt and Slater seem to like Berry and welcome the hard coaching.

LOL besides, when you are ranked 32nd and coming off one of the worst offensive line displays in many years....you don't get little pats on the back

This year's Chargers OL players, few got snaps on the NFL's worst OL but granted, the LACOL brand does carry some stigma.

Barry is installing a new scheme with new techniques and needs to have his voice heard. RG Strange is the lone player with any familiarity.

[CanadianBoltFan]

He came from Miami where he was the OLine coach for three years. I think MickyD is well aware of how he interacts with players.

The best players and leaders of the line, Alt and Slater seem to like Berry and welcome the hard coaching.

LOL besides, when you are ranked 32nd and coming off one of the worst offensive line displays in many years....you don't get little pats on the back

[sonorajim]

Negative reinforcement only works with certain types of people ..... if it comes across as belittling, and there is not much of a relationship, then it will fail.

We will see .... they (McD and Harbaugh) are well aware of how he interacts with players.

Positive reinforcement also can fail, because a player will never know what he is doing wrong, or if he is being bullshitted .... as we saw last year.

To be honest with Boze - that you are the worst starting center in the league, and couldn't be a backup on many teams - would have been shattering.
But we saw how positive reinforcement sadly failed.

After a while, Boze must have though that getting blown up and always missing stunts was normal.

They started Boze, sadly because he was the best starting C on the team. Great guy, knew Roman's offense but couldn't put it on the field. Maybe they thought Becton would prop him up some? That did not work and the loss of Slater in pre season and Alt in game 4 was a dagger to the OL's effectiveness. There was a big plus though. New OC, OL Coach, Biadasz and young and old OL competition for OGs and OL depth

[perryao]

Negative reinforcement only works with certain types of people ..... if it comes across as belittling, and there is not much of a relationship, then it will fail.

We will see .... they (McD and Harbaugh) are well aware of how he interacts with players.

Positive reinforcement also can fail, because a player will never know what he is doing wrong, or if he is being bullshitted .... as we saw last year.

To be honest with Boze - that you are the worst starting center in the league, and couldn't be a backup on many teams - would have been shattering.
But we saw how positive reinforcement sadly failed.

After a while, Boze must have though that getting blow up and always missing stunts was normal.

He came from Miami where he was the OLine coach for three years. I think MickyD is well aware of how he interacts with players.