Why Eli Manning Didn't Want to Go to the Chargers

[DerwinBosa]

I'm not sure these guys would have done the same thing in San Diego. Larry Fitzgerald credits Kurt Warner for changing his attitude and work ethic during the 2005 season. He said Warner showed him how to be a pro. I'm not sure that would have happened with Drew Brees as his starting quarterback.

I wanted Sean Taylor in that 2004 Draft. I didn't like Brees as the quarterback at that time (why would I?), but I was frightened by the thought of Eli Manning as his replacement. I didn't give much consideration for Philip Rivers, although I did like him a lot. I didn't think he was going in the top ten. I wanted no part of Ben Roethlisberger.

I could say in hindsight that selecting Sean Taylor after a trade down with the Giants (and keeping him in San Diego, away from the issues he had in Miami) and using the 12th overall pick in the 2005 Draft on Aaron Rodgers would have been the best move, but I'm not sure Rodgers' career would have turned out the same if he had to play sooner--and for Norv Turner. With Dean Spanos as owner and A.J. Smith as general manager, I'm not confident that anything would have been better from 2004 through 2012 (the end of Marty and all of the Norv years).

I thought Sean Taylor was Ed Reed and Ronnie Lott combined. One of my favorite prospects of all time. Such a shame that he was murdered.

[ChargingBolts]

I always wonder "what if" in 2007 when the Chargers played at 18-0 New England in the AFC Championship Game ... what if Rivers didn't tear his ACL seven days earlier, what if Gates was healthy and played, what if Merriman was healthy and played, what if Tomlinson was healthy and played? It was a 14-12 game in the 4th quarter and had we won it would have been Eli versus Rivers, how just it would have been to have the Chargers beat the Giants and Eli's whole take would have been moot (although had NYG beat us would have made it worse).

[Boltnut]

.... a Charger dynasty, perhaps beginning as early as 2004 and ending in 2009. Stop torturing us Boltnut!

Imagine drafting Kellen Winslow Jr. as Billy Ray Smith Jr. suggested, and AJ trading away Gates because he was a Marty / Cam Cameron guy.

I doubt if AJ would have ever traded Gates away.
He was a gem unearthed by Tim Brewster (TE's coach at the time).
We needed OL and WR at the time. AJ did a good job of rebuilding the OL through FA (Goff) and the draft (Hardwick, Olivea) in 2004.

I always thought that Brees was better than perceived at the time... he needed better OL protection to excel. I felt sorry for Brees his first couple of years behind that awful OL.

[powderblueboy]

I doubt if AJ would have ever traded Gates away.
He was a gem unearthed by Tim Brewster (TE's coach at the time).
We needed OL and WR at the time. AJ did a good job of rebuilding the OL through FA (Goff) and the draft (Hardwick, Olivea) in 2004.

I always thought that Brees was better than perceived at the time... he needed better OL protection to excel. I felt sorry for Brees his first couple of years behind that awful OL.

Yeah, in the Eli retelling, he mentions that the Charger brass was trying to sell him on the unknown stud tight end they already had.

However, Fitzgerald was drafted #3. So, the Chargers would have had to draft him at the top of the draft ... which means waive good buy to Merriman and either Kaeding or Hardwick
.... probably Kaeding (although he was drafted first), which would almost compensate for losing Merriman.

Egads, looking at round the next 3rd round selection - Darnell Docket, who I really wanted that draft (& disappointed they chose Igor), although Docket might have been a shade too light on draft day.

correction: Dockett went just before Kaeding.

[Boltnut]

Yeah, in the Eli retelling, he mentions that the Charger brass was trying to sell him on the unknown stud tight end they already had.

However, Fitzgerald was drafted #3. So, the Chargers would have had to draft him at the top of the draft ... which means waive good buy to Merriman and either Kaeding or Hardwick
.... probably Kaeding (although he was drafted first), which would almost compensate for losing Merriman.

Egads, looking at round the next 3rd round selection - Darnell Docket, who I really wanted that draft (& disappointed they chose Igor), although Docket might have been a shade too light on draft day.

correction: Dockett went just before Kaeding.

Yeah, if it meant waving good bye to Merriman and Hardwick... probably not a good idea to stay put at #1 and draft Fitzgerald.
Still.... Brees, LT, Gates, and Fitzgerald... would have been fun!

[BlazingBolt]

There is a lot wrong with this post, I will diseect it in two parts:

A. Brees made the probowl in 2004 and 2005 under Marty. Schottenheimer, who by all indications wanted to resign Brees, until the injury happened.
Marty, IMHO, started Brees over the #4 pick in the NFL draft that final game to not give AJ Smith the ability to evaluate Rivers in an actual NFL game,
and then possibly decide to not resign Brees, if Rivers had looked good.

As for Brees seeking outside coaching in the 2004 season, here is what I dug up:

Before his 2004 breakout season, Drew Brees sought outside coaching from renowned Pitching guru Tom House. The consultation was recommended by then-Chargers offensive coordinator Cam Cameron to help Brees improve his throwing mechanics and performance.

So, Brees did not seek it out ... it was recommended to him by the Charger's OC and Brees followed up on it.

B. Kosar's career was destroyed by injuries: he suffered thru numerous concussions and seizures during his playing career, and even went into a coma after his last concussion. He had numerous broken bones. Under Marty, he had only one season where he played in more than 12 games. What he did do under Marty was lead the Clevand Browns to three consecutive playoffs and two consecutive AFC championship games. He went to one pro bowl, in a conference with Dan Marino, John Elway and Jim Kelly. Cleveland went 39 and 23 with Kosar during his first 6 seasons. His record with Marty was 30 - 17

With Kosar, it is a question of what his career could have been if he was healthy. Would he have had better stats under Don Coryell? ..... sure. As is, Cleveland had as much success with Kosar as the Chargers had with Dan Fouts.

There is nothing wrong with my post.

A.

Brees was drafted in 2001 and started in 2002 and 2003. At that point he was a BUST under Marty's coaching. A new QB was drafted who was expected to start right away and the only reason he did not was because he had a rookie contract holdout. You only verified he got coaching outside the organization proving my post completely 100% true. I recall Brees speaking how I have heard other pro's talk, that they can't always rely on the orgainizations coaches who will want to take credit for what you do and none of the blame for your failures.

Brees had the ultimate confidence in himself, he refused to accept that he was a BUST as his coaches and organization and many fans had labelled him after the 03 season. Cam Cameron wasn't recommending coaching to Brees in any meaningful way as Brees was supposed to be the backup QB. https://www.nfl.com/news/drew-brees-...-into-believer

"he doubled down on himself. He hired a mind coach to strengthen that part of his game. He worked with a personal trainer to ensure he was getting everything possible out of his body. In the evening, he would study his playbook before setting it on the nightstand and going to bed, that way it would be the last thing he saw at night and the first thing he saw in the morning."


He was one week away from getting benched for the rest of his career until he had an offensive explosion week 3 and 4 after a 1-2 start and got the team to start winning. Marty was not always in Brees corner, he had moved on and planned to bench him from the moment 03 turned in to a disaster and never got on the trade Rivers because Brees is my guy plan. He then obviouisly did not value him as a long term assett and exposed him to injury in a meaningless game and he got a savage potentially career ending injury as a result.


B.

And then Kosar, he was on some good teams but he did not have a good career overall and he is not a QB to hold up as Marty is a QB guru. Rich Gannon also became an MVP once he got away from Marty. Fouts is a HOF QB and you comparing Kosar to him shows your opinion can't be taken seriously. Are you even a Chargers fan if you have that take? Kosar was brittle and Fouts was tough as nails.

[DerwinBosa]

There is nothing wrong with my post. Brees was drafted in 2001 and started in 2002 and 2003. At that point he was a BUST under Marty's coaching. A new QB was drafted who was expected to start right away and the only reason he did not was because he had a rookie contract holdout. You only verified he got coaching outside the organization proving my post completely 100% true. I recall Brees speaking how I have heard other pro's talk, that they can't always rely on the orgainizations coaches who will want to take credit for what you do and none of the blame for your failures.

Brees had the ultimate confidence in himself, he refused to accept that he was a BUST as his coaches and organization and many fans had labelled him after the 03 season. Cam Cameron wasn't recommending coaching to Brees in any meaningful way as Brees was supposed to be the backup QB. He was one week away from getting benched for the rest of his career until he had an offensive explosion week 3 and 4 after a 1-2 start and got the team to start winning. Marty was not always in Brees corner, he had moved on and planned to bench him from the moment 03 turned in to a disaster and never got on the trade Rivers because Brees is my guy plan.

And then Kosar, he was on some good teams but he did not have a good career overall and he is not a QB to hold up as Marty is a QB guru. Rich Gannon also became an MVP once he got away from Marty. Fouts is a HOF QB and you comparing Kosar to him shows your opinion can't be taken seriously. Are you even a Chargers fan if you have that take? Kosar was brittle and Fouts was tough as nails.

Marty was not Bill Walsh, but Drew Brees disagrees with you. I think Bernie Kosar would, as well.

I tried to have the video start when Drew Bress compliments Marty for his maturation. It really starts at around 36:45.

[powderblueboy]

There is nothing wrong with my post.

A.

Brees was drafted in 2001 and started in 2002 and 2003. At that point he was a BUST under Marty's coaching. A new QB was drafted who was expected to start right away and the only reason he did not was because he had a rookie contract holdout. You only verified he got coaching outside the organization proving my post completely 100% true. I recall Brees speaking how I have heard other pro's talk, that they can't always rely on the orgainizations coaches who will want to take credit for what you do and none of the blame for your failures.

Brees had the ultimate confidence in himself, he refused to accept that he was a BUST as his coaches and organization and many fans had labelled him after the 03 season. Cam Cameron wasn't recommending coaching to Brees in any meaningful way as Brees was supposed to be the backup QB. https://www.nfl.com/news/drew-brees-...-into-believer

"he doubled down on himself. He hired a mind coach to strengthen that part of his game. He worked with a personal trainer to ensure he was getting everything possible out of his body. In the evening, he would study his playbook before setting it on the nightstand and going to bed, that way it would be the last thing he saw at night and the first thing he saw in the morning."


He was one week away from getting benched for the rest of his career until he had an offensive explosion week 3 and 4 after a 1-2 start and got the team to start winning. Marty was not always in Brees corner, he had moved on and planned to bench him from the moment 03 turned in to a disaster and never got on the trade Rivers because Brees is my guy plan. He then obviouisly did not value him as a long term assett and exposed him to injury in a meaningless game and he got a savage potentially career ending injury as a result.


B.

And then Kosar, he was on some good teams but he did not have a good career overall and he is not a QB to hold up as Marty is a QB guru. Rich Gannon also became an MVP once he got away from Marty. Fouts is a HOF QB and you comparing Kosar to him shows your opinion can't be taken seriously. Are you even a Chargers fan if you have that take? Kosar was brittle and Fouts was tough as nails.

I already said what I wanted to say about Brees and Kosar.

Rich Gannon though ..... let me take a whack at that one.
Gannon was on his 3rd team in 3 years when he came to Marty & KC; he was basically finished as a starter.

During Gannon's 4rth year in KC, he started only 12 games and threw for the most yards in his career:
More than he ever threw in Minnesota when starting in 14 = 15 games.
The worst mistake in Marty's head coaching career was in selecting Steve Bono over Rich Gannon in the 1998 NFL playoffs.

Oakland next season signed Rich Gannon for starter money and the rest is history.
He came to KC as a failed starter and left as a Super Bowl quality QB.

[powderblueboy]

Marty was not Bill Walsh, but Drew Brees disagrees with you. I think Bernie Kosar would, as well.

.

The video interestingly points out that Marty was fired in DC because Daniel Snyder didn't want him to be both head coach and GM, but to just be the head coach,
and Marty said ''that just won't fit''. Daniel Synder himself relates that story.

Marty had is say in assembling the 2006 team, and more than just in selecting Sammy Davis Jr and cutting Wes Welker.

[BlazingBolt]

Marty was not Bill Walsh, but Drew Brees disagrees with you. I think Bernie Kosar would, as well.

I tried to have the video start when Drew Bress compliments Marty for his maturation. It really starts at around 36:45.

I wouldn't expect Brees to speak ill of a dead man. RIP Marty. Proves nothing. The facts are what I said they were. Marty never developled a QB, Brees was considered a bust after being drafted under Marty, Brees had ultimate confidence in himself, seeked outside coaching, truned his career around inspite of Marty, and Marty never backed him as the franchise QB and didn't want to lose Rivers. That Brees speaks kindly of a dead man who won over 200 games and made his bubby LT an MVP is not surprising but the facts are the facts.

[DerwinBosa]

I wouldn't expect Brees to speak ill of a dead man. RIP Marty. Proves nothing. The facts are what I said they were. Marty never developled a QB, Brees was considered a bust after being drafted under Marty, Brees had ultimate confidence in himself, seeked outside coaching, truned his career around inspite of Marty, and Marty never backed him as the franchise QB and didn't want to lose Rivers. That Brees speaks kindly of a dead man who won over 200 games and made his bubby LT an MVP is not surprising but the facts are the facts.

Marty wasn't dead when that "A Football Life" episode was made in 2013. Marty passed away in 2021. Brees could have easily passed on the opportunity to contribute to that episode if he didn't feel Marty was a positive influence in his development as a quarterback. And your facts are incorrect. Marty was not the head coach when Brees was drafted. Mike Riley was in 2001. Marty was the Redskins' head coach that season. And Marty wanted to keep Brees. He didn't exactly come out and say that he favored Brees over Rivers, but he was on the record saying he wanted to have them both. A.J. Smith was the one who wanted to move on with Rivers and didn't even tell Marty that he wasn't re-signing Brees.

You're also incorrect about Bernie Kosar. He had his best years under Marty and was a Pro Bowler in 1987 in a conference that had Dan Marino, John Elway, Jim Kelly, and Warren Moon. Injuries set Kosar back, which happened after Marty left Cleveland. Marty then had to take on veteran quarterbacks in Kansas City--Steve DeBerg, Dave Krieg, Joe Montana, Steve Bono, Rich Gannon, and Elvis Grbac. The Chiefs were never in position to draft a quarterback. He went to the playoffs with all of them, even went 13-3 with Bono in 1995. He had Montana at the end of his career and went to an AFC Championship Game with him. Who knows what he could have done with Montana if he had him at 27 instead of 37? Tony Banks even went 8-6 as a starting quarterback with Marty as his head coach in Washington in 2001. Marty then had Brees and Rivers in San Diego. He went 12-4 with Brees in 2004 and 14-2 with Rivers in 2006. Brees was coming along under Marty and Rivers had only one year with him, so who knows what would have happened if either of them had more time playing for Marty?

[powderblueboy]

It is very interesting in the Marty video on how he goes up to Brees to tell him why they are taking him out: a large lead where they do not want to risk injury with him.
Marty wasn't stupid, he was aware of the possibility.

I don't know what season it was from, but it couldn't be in 2005, before the final Denver game, where Rivers played just one snap up to that point, taking a knee, in a 48 - 10 victory over Buffalo.

That is a fantastic lead to just have Rivers play only 1 snap, taking a knee. Marty didn't want to play Rivers period.