Rosen

[JPPT1974]

Yeah as really will not believe it til I see it for myself like other fans. If Rosen gets traded and what team. Me thinks Cardinals want Kyler Murray.

[Steve]

At this point, the Cards can:
1). Sit and play with Rosen. That means drafting someone other than Murray or trading the #1 pick, and adding picks. All info out of the combine and elsewhere says that Kingsberry wants Murray, though. The days of getting huge hauls of draft picks for the #1 pick seem to be coming to an end, so it doesn't seem like they will get the huge haul that teams have gotten in the past.

2). Draft Murray and then sit Rosen. Possible. He is not that expensive ap wise, and they need a backup anyway. However, the Cards are terrible and need an influx of talent. Having 2 1st round picks at QB seems a waste, given the shitty roster. They could use help at every position.

3). Draft Murray and either before or after trade Rosen. This makes the most sense, but they are not going to get 1st round value back out of the deal after the season the Cards had. However, even if they decide to hold onto Rosen, if he sits all next year, he still won't get any more for him then they are being offered now. If they keep him, it is highly unlikely that they can get his value to jump at all, not with the talent they have. So, if they are going to pull the trigger, now is the time to do it.

From the Chargers point of view:

Fuck the Cardinals wanting a 1st round pick. They can want all day. They are the ones who fucked up and traded up 5 spots, giving up a 3rd and 5th to trade from #15 to 10 last year. Actually, there is nothing wrong with that, it is the getting rid of the player after just one year that is the fuck up. Rosen is still a decent prospect, but he is now damaged goods. Not irreparably damaged, but this is how the game is played. They took the wrapper off/drove him off the lot, he is now worth less than he was. Just because they overpaid doesn't mean I have to too.

I think giving up a #2 is pretty steep for us, and wouldn't do it, but that is more about the timing issue between Rivers and when Rosen's salary comes up. To me, he is worth our 3rd. I could see the Giants (with 2x#1 picks, and NE with 2 x#2 picks) being in better position to pull the trigger. But their need is greater too.

If I am feeling generous as TT, I start looking through the depth chart and see if I can find another player to bundle with Rosen for our #1. Haasan Reddick is the name I keep coming back to. He is the odd man out with Chandler and Suggs at OLB as they move back to the 34. He can fill the OTTO role, as well as provide depth at the other ILB spots. Another OK name is Budda Baker, who would be our FS. I would love Patrick Peterson, but there is no way they would give him up.

[blueman]

This.^

And if one believes the Cards do indeed want to move on from Rosen, then yeah very curious what that deal/what team ends up with him and for how much.

[Budsman]

It really depends on the market. He's definitely worth a 2nd round pick. He would arguably be the best QB in this draft had he come out this year. This also takes into account his rock bottom price for a high ceiling QB.

If the the giants or another team drafting higher than us are willing to give up a second and TT wants him a low first like ours blus maybe a small kick back may be worth it.

It it depends on how much TT and AL want him. My guess is we offer the second and if that can't get him then we pass.

Either way it's definately interesting and I'm rooting for us to get him.

[Panamamike]

I promise you that Kliff Kingsbury didn't come into the job interview saying he can't work with the team's top 10 overall "franchise QB" that the owner just spent millions on and demands that he gets his own guy. Didn't happen.

Kingsbury came in and said he can work with him and develop him if he's the guy. If Kingsbury said anything even slightly less than that, he'd still be at his college coaching gig.

When he interviewed with the team everyone assumed Murray was playing baseball. He was hired because he convinced them he could bring out the best in Rosen. When Murray opted to play football Az focus changed.

[Steve]

It only depends on the market if you want to play those games. At some point you still have to decide the risk/reward and what you are willing to pay. In my mind, the 2nd is as high as I would be willing to go, unless the Cards are willing to package some other players.

The reason I say 2nd-ish, is that there was always some risk with Rosen. Slight guy, who has been getting dinged up a lot in college. A little streaky. His performance last year was not very good, and while some of that is easily explained by the poor talent level, sometimes guys just don't recover the swagger that is part of being a top notch QB. I do think that LA is a good place for Rosen, given his time at UCLA, and that helps somewhat.

There is still a very real chance of him not having had a chance to see him play extensively, and the team having to offer him a contract before as the heir apparent at QB.

I also think the days of the QB supply and demand being so terrible are over. The last few years, there has been a steady supply of college QB who have thrown a lot of passes coming out each year. This year it looks like 4 1st round qb with another 4 or so in the next couple of rounds. Last year there were 5 1st round, with a couple more in the next couple rounds. The year before the same thing with Trubisky, Mahomes and Watson. It's still tough to get a good QB prospect, but not impossible.

[Budsman]

It only depends on the market if you want to play those games. At some point you still have to decide the risk/reward and what you are willing to pay. In my mind, the 2nd is as high as I would be willing to go, unless the Cards are willing to package some other players.

The reason I say 2nd-ish, is that there was always some risk with Rosen. Slight guy, who has been getting dinged up a lot in college. A little streaky. His performance last year was not very good, and while some of that is easily explained by the poor talent level, sometimes guys just don't recover the swagger that is part of being a top notch QB. I do think that LA is a good place for Rosen, given his time at UCLA, and that helps somewhat.

There is still a very real chance of him not having had a chance to see him play extensively, and the team having to offer him a contract before as the heir apparent at QB.

I also think the days of the QB supply and demand being so terrible are over. The last few years, there has been a steady supply of college QB who have thrown a lot of passes coming out each year. This year it looks like 4 1st round qb with another 4 or so in the next couple of rounds. Last year there were 5 1st round, with a couple more in the next couple rounds. The year before the same thing with Trubisky, Mahomes and Watson. It's still tough to get a good QB prospect, but not impossible.

I agree with you for the most part. I hope we don't offer more than a 2nd but I really like the idea of getting Rosen.

Maybe he's not that great, I know he was good enough in college to be a top 10 pick in a heavy qb class and his rookie year while not great wasn't horrible and he was in the ballpark with Some of the other "franchise" first rounders.

I guess i love love the idea of having a guy sit for a few years, preferably 2 but 1 or 3 is ok, and get seasoning before starting. I think this allows them to become more confident and for a guy like Rosen that might be key. It also allows them to learn a system, when you start these new QBs out of college they are learning a new offense and trying to figure out the nfl it's just too really difficult, heck Peyton Manning didn't fair too well under those circumstances either (yes Manning was better than Rosen) and Brady and Rogers got to sit and learn for a while, Brees got to start and suck for a while.

It just seems that if you want to have success with a young QB you need to sit him for a bit let him learn. Otherwise be ready for lots of learning pains, and some teams are ok with that, I don't think our team would be, we won't be rebuilding at that point, we need to smoothly transition to someone ready to take over and Rosen has the chops to do that.

The other point woth Rosen is that he's cheap, really cheap. His 5 million over the next 3 years with another option year added on if we need it gives this team flexibility.

Oportunities like this dont grow on trees, we need to take as a stage of it and if it doesn't work out, nothing ventured nothing gained.

[Steve]

I agree about the sitting part. As far as his prospects, Rosen strikes me as being reasonably mechanically sound. If he could get a year or even two really working on his fundamentals, he could be really sound. He isn't horrible now, but good fundamentals really let a guy be solid and consistent coming out of the gate. He could also really use a year in the weight room. HE is a little bit on the skinny side, and could use a solid year of nutrition and heavy weight training to build up his muscles and protect the soft tissues. So, sitting him for a year or two or even 3 makes a lot of sense to me too.

As far as his contract goes I think it is $6 million over the next 3 years, but $5 mill, $ 6mill, either way is pretty cheap. It is backup money, so there is no problem there.

The problem is that in just 3 years, we run the risk of having to pay him starters money and not having seen him play. It is not like we can do the 5th year option deal to him to really see. That would be ideal. It is also only something the team that drafts a player can exercise.

The problem, in my mind the big problem is just one of the timing. If we do keep him, develop him, we get can get caught in a catch 22. He can decide if he wants to stay or go depending on the money. Are we prepared to give him big money if he hasn't played (much) yet? That has set back several teams lately, the 49ers with Kaepernick are an example. Remember, unless we franchise him, he decides if he stays, not us. You can't make a player resign unless he wants to. While I don't think getting QB is going to be as tough in the future, it would kill me for us to develop a QB and then have him walk after we do the hard work and see him succeed somewhere else.

[jamrock]

I'm not sure Rosen has the mentality to any of the things you mentioned. You can't expect someone to change.

[wu-dai clan]

I'm not sure Rosen has the mentality to any of the things you mentioned. You can't expect someone to change.

It is a good thing that we are divided on players.

We can bark at each other
all Summer long...

[Steve]

I'm not sure Rosen has the mentality to any of the things you mentioned. You can't expect someone to change.

I'm sorry, but I really don't know what you are implying. None of the things I mention are really mentality things.

As far as his mechanics/fundamentals, that looks pretty decent. THe only bit nit on him is his delivery is kinda a windup on the longer throws, but almost everyone has some of that when they come into the league, and some play with it their whole career.

There are a few highlights they call him Glennon late in the game, but it is actually Rosen playing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5HxrFrcbsM

[jamrock]

I'm sorry, but I really don't know what you are implying. None of the things I mention are really mentality things.

As far as his mechanics/fundamentals, that looks pretty decent. THe only bit nit on him is his delivery is kinda a windup on the longer throws, but almost everyone has some of that when they come into the league, and some play with it their whole career.

There are a few highlights they call him Glennon late in the game, but it is actually Rosen playing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5HxrFrcbsM

The mentality to work on fundamentals (not just throwing mechanics but reading defenses, making good decisions, etc) diet and weight training. I didn't see it at UCLA. Most of the time the guy you see is the guy you're gonna get.