Roster going into the draft - another way of looking at depth

[Steve]

The key thing to remember with building a roster is who you have and who you want to add. While you can manipulate a roster some to squeeze players you like on, it comes down to the best 53 active players, and that can get tricky. Things to keep in mind, while you can sometimes go for more than a starter and a backup at each position, many positions, like OL you often have just 1 backup among 2 spots. So the idea of being 3 deep at any position is unlikely unless the player can also add depth somewhere else, or be on the field in a lot of passing situations. RB and TE are the exceptions, everyone keeps 4 or 5 RB, and 3 TE (4 if no FB).

In today's NFL you can expect that we need at least 75% of our snaps with 5 or 6 DB on the field, and 75% of the offensive snaps will be in 3 or 4 WR sets, so the roster is usually heavier at the DB and WR then some of the other offensive positions


Offense
C - Pouncey, Quessenberry (G), Cole Toner (G)
Pouncey is set at this point to return as the starter, and Quessenberry is probably still a fit at C/OG, although I wouldn't be surprised if a highish pick could displace him.

G - Feeney, Lamp (OT), Schofield (OT), Drango
Schofield is the biggest lock. because he can be a swing OT. Need a couple of UDFA to fill out the roster at the very least.

OT- Okung, Tevi, Scott, Crabtree
Okung is a lock, and Tevi is also a lock. Hopefully, Scott can continue to develop after a reasonable start at RT early last season. Need a couple of UDFA to fill out the TC roster.

TE- Henry, Green, Culkin, Mayle, Roberts
I think the Chargers like Culkin, but if the right guy gets added to the TC roster, Culkin could always be the odd man out. Not much chance of carrying a 4th TE, unless Watt gets hurt.

WR- Allen, Benjamin, Williams, Cantrell, Geremy Davis, Andre Patton, Artavis Scott, Justice Liggins
This position is pretty well set. The 2 starters can all play inside or outside, and all 3 can get deep, as well as run shorter routes. One or two more UDFA to fill out the TC roster is probably all that is necessary.

FB- Watt
Not that any FB should feel safe in today's NFL, but Watt is among the best FB. He could actually start to have more of a role on offense if he can start coming up with some grabs (Baltimore on the goalline). Probably add 1 more FB for TC.

RB - Gordon, Ekeler, Jackson, Newsome, Troymaine Pope
They will bring in some FA types to fill out the TC roster, but Jackson and Newsome both had some quality playing time running, receiving, picking up blitzers (for rookies). I was pretty impressed with both and I don't have any problem with them, provided they continue to improve over last year. Maybe 1 more TC player.

QB - Rivers, Taylor, Jones
Need another camp arm to go along with Cardale Jones. Jones has to show major improvements to get a roster spot, and probably not even then. He has run out of practice squad eligibility.

Defense
DE - Bosa, Rochelle (DT), Lanier (DT),
SDE is pretty well set, although Lanier might be moved inside where he played for the Redskins. May not even need any TC bodies here.

Leo- Ingram (MLB/Otto), Afriyie
Afriyie did a nice job in TC last year, but there are guys like him in every TC, and they rarely do much on the active roster. Hopefully, he steps up, but there is absolutely nothing preventing the Chargers from wanting to add depth via the draft and/or UDFA. Need at least 1 TC guy.

DT- Jones (NT), McGill
NT- Mebane
Very thin for a TC roster. We need to add bodies just to run TC practices. Lanier and Rochelle can/will add some depth at 3 tech, as will Bosa and Ingram on passing downs. Need 1 3 tech for TC and at least 2 NT.

LB- Davis, Perryman, White, Brown, Dzubnar, Kyle Wilson, Trevon Johnson
People keep thinking of adding more LB via the draft, but if we do, we almost have to cut either White or Brown. Perryman and Davis are going to be the starters, so it also seems unlikely it will be a higher pick, at least looking at it this way.

Otto - Nwosu (Leo),
Need to add an OTTO, although given how Nwosu came on last year, it is unlikely to be a high pick. Again, to fill out the 3 deep roster for TC, a couple more DE/OLB tweener types. A higher pick seems unlikely, although they could add some snaps as a situational rusher and on ST.

S- James, Jenkins, Phillips, Watkins (CB)
Given that we play 3 S most of the time, this group is still pretty thin. You can never have enough S, since they play such a key role on ST. 4 S is adequate if you play 2 S and only use a 3rd S now and then, but Phillips plays over 60% of our snaps. King adds some depth, but he is so good in the slot, you don't necessarily want to move him, plus he is the top returner.

CB - Hayward, Davis, Williams, King (S), Facyson, Richards, Arrlon Springs
Even losing Verrett, we are still pretty deep. Davis and Williams have both shown flashes of being good starting CB, but both need to step up their games. However, from a roster standpoint, this group is pretty solid. However, does anyone think that this group is going to be able to man up and press a 4 WR set? Hayward does his best work in man off coverage. While Davis and Williams have shown good ability, it has been almost exclusively in zone for the last 2 seasons. Even if we do play zone, can they play press zone? I wouldn't pass a top CB if one fell into out laps.

LS - Windt, Cole Mazza
Set. Windt is as good a LS as there is, and Mazza was a 4 year starter at LS for Alabama (no botched snaps in 583 attempts FG/EP/Punts), coming off a pretty good season in the AAF.

K - Badgley
Set. We need to add a TC Kicker, but Badgley is the starter unless he self destructs.

P - Ty Long
Need at least one more TC P, and probably get someone who can legitimately compete against Long. Long has also been a placekicker in the CFL (43 of 46 FG attempts, with 7 for 7 from 50+ yds), although he has to lead the CFL in net punting the last 2 seasons (48.8 this past year). https://www.sbnation.com/2017/9/9/16...alouettes-2017 He does a good job of downing a punt on the goal line (not at the 1, laying on top of the goal line for the rouge).

[wu-dai clan]

Great thread.
Read my mind.
Can't wait to respond in detail later today.

As the draft is upon us,
what are our REAL positions of need ?

Prepare to be shocked and amazed.

[blueman]

Why would we cut Brown or White if we draft an ILB?? Wouldn't we cut one of the three lower LBs in the depth chart?

Not sure everyone will agree Tevi is a lock.

Agree we need OLB, Leo/OTTO is very thin. Is Mack too light to grow into that?

[jamrock]

I've been saying since day one we need the DL/NT guy more than anything.

[Boltjolt]

Dzubnar, Kyle Wilson, Trevon Johnson


Im thinking either of these three can be replaced with a mid to late pick LB. Neither are a good option to replace Perryman WHEN he gets injured. Dzub flat sucks and is only STs worthy and that can be replaced. Cameron Smith for example can be that guy and is a much better MLB. Even TJ Edwards....he may not have the speed we like but the guy is very productive.

DT we draft at least one, if not two and maybe sign one of the FA's out there.

[Formula 21]

I say don't underestimate the value of your special team stars. This team needs Dzub.

[Boltjolt]

I say don't underestimate the value of your special team stars. This team needs Dzub.

No they dont. You can find players to play STs and there are plenty that are good STs players and state that in draft bio's. He sux at LB so replacing him will be easy. We moved on from Osgood, we can move on from Dzub.

[Steve]

Why would we cut Brown or White if we draft an ILB?? Wouldn't we cut one of the three lower LBs in the depth chart?

Not sure everyone will agree Tevi is a lock.

Agree we need OLB, Leo/OTTO is very thin. Is Mack too light to grow into that?

Those guys aren't going to make the final roster anyway. They are just TC fodder. 2 deep at every positon means 4 ILB.

Tevi is probably going to make the roster. He might not start if we draft someone high, but with Okung costing a mint and getting older, he is not going anywhere. He can also slide inside to OG, if he doesn't figure in the mix at OT.

Anyone on the team who doesn't start and play a lot of minutes better play ST, or they will always be on the bubble. At the very least, if they make the roster and can't play ST, they won't be active on game day. Ask Lamp how that goes.

Bold are guys who are likely to make the roster, regular text is TC fodder. Some of them may make the roster, but it will depend a lot on who is drafted and/or brought in.

[Bolt-O]

Nice work as usual Steve. I feel good about the skill positions, there are definite needs in the interior DL, and punter. Because the pick is pretty deep in the order, I don't know if the right guys at the positions of need will fall, I'll rely on you draft mavens to tell us that picks are good or suck. I do have a feeling that TT will just go BPA for the first pick, and yes, there is an outside chance that they can deal for Rosen...just not something I would bet would happen.

[Steve]

Long may work out pretty well as our punter. A handful of punters have made their way to the NFL via the CFL, although I can't think of any lately. Canadian stadiums are mostly outdoors, so they really learn how to deal with the weather. Add that to the hang time thing, since the CFL field is less forgiving to punt return issues, you can find some gems in the CFL kicking ranks.

I just think that if we are going to go ahead and preach competition, and try to make players fight for jobs and continuously improve, there is no reason to not do it at P. If the guy has proven that he can play at a high-level year after year, then maybe they can just come in, but until then, make everyone work for it. It makes the whole team better in the long run.

The nice thing about the BPA thing is that it keeps other teams GM's from thinking they have leverage over us. Nothing backfires like the pick you have to make, or the trade you have to make to get a player. BPA means we can walk away at any point, which gives us an advantage. I don't mind the idea of landing Rosen, but it really has to be at our price.

[wu-dai clan]

I expect Trent Scott, Dylan Cantrell, TY McGill and Anthony Lanier to make the team.

[Sgt Schultz]

Post from Steve 2017 because I get so confused. This should be a pull down on top of the page, maybe a Steve post reference page type of thing.

New defensive terminology

01-20-2017, 10:26 PM



The Gus Bradley/Pete Carroll/Tony Dungy/Floyd Peters/Monte Kiffin/George Siefert 43/34 defense has been around college forever and the NFL since the mid 1980's, on and off.

The big difference between old versions and the one will be using, based on what Gus Bradley has done recently is:

1). Use 3 bigger DL and 1 rush Tweener/Hybird OLB/DE.
2). Unlike his co-worker Carroll and Bradley always seemed to like playing more press coverage in a 3 deep secondary, while the cover 2 guys (Kiffin and Dungy) prefered the 2 deep secondary. And Seattle is a rarity in that they tend to play a lot of man to man, while most of the other 34/43 over teams tend to play more zone (which is how most teams tend to play pass coverage anyway).
3). The latest incarnation of the Bradley-Carroll version is that they play a lot more 2 gapping, while other defenses have been mostly 1 gap defenses. It hurts their early run down pass rush, but puts their DL in a better position to contain the run, allowing the LB more room to run.

Defensive terminology

Leo - Rush OLB/DE - This position was what Charles Haley used to play for the 49ers under George Siefert and was called the Elephant back then. Basically, you flip flop the Leo/Elephant DE to the open side of the formation, so he won't get slowed down by the TE. But by flip flopping him, it also means he will be a bit slower off the ball, since he has to learn 2 sets of hand/foot motions. But the Leo, despite looking and being called a LB in some forms of the 34/43 D, is just a pass rusher. THey only drop him into pass coverage when running zone blitzes. Usually the player aligns wide, forcing the OT to come out in space to block him, and defend the C gap (outside the OT). Athletic abilty is the most important quality.

SAM/Otto- Drop OLB - This is the position KJ Wright plays for the Seawaks and Bill Romanowski played for the 49ers. The Leo is the rusher, so the other OLB has to cover. Usuaully, but not always this player will get moved to play DE on passing downs, but it depends on what the player is good at. Most of the time, the player aligns outside the TE, and never can get reached in the run game. This technique is the 9 technique spot in the D. Often has the TE in man coverage. Will follow him in motion.

5 Technique DE - Bosa will play this spot. The key is he has to be a good outside leverage guy, who can squeeze down the strong side C gap, but not allow him to get hooked inside. This guy has to work with the SAM/OTTO player and prevetn the outside run, so the Free Safety can come up and fill the inside gaps and takeaway the cutback.

3 technique DT - In Seattle D, this guy has to be stout and is often used as a s 2 gap player. Even when he is a 1 gapping, he is not to get too far upfield. This is a major difference from most 3 technique guys, who are asked to penetrate and disrupt the offensive backfield. The Bradley/Carroll D, the guy is a leverage player vs the run. On passing downs, a smaller quicker guy will be brought in. Probably the ideal guy would have been John Parella or Shawn Lee. Guys who can get in a gap and then not get moved out no matter what. Liuget is the guy who would play this spot if the season started tomorrow.

1 technique DT - This is Mebane's old poisition, and is pretty much exactly how we have used our NT. A guy like Mebane may play it more like a 2 gap, or a tilt techique (line up in 1 gap, but playing on an angle so that he can close down and read the gap on the other side of the C), so that he is playing along the line, rather than penetating. This player may also get subbed out on passing downs. I expect Mebane and Square will play this spot.

The key thing that has made the Carroll D so successful is that he has been extremely felxible in how he has used his personnel. Not too many HC would be willing to play Red Bryant as your starting DE weighing 323 pounds, when Mebane and Alan Branch were both smaller and faster than Bryant was. But Bryant had the outside leverage and would never get hooked, so they were almost impossible to run outside on. Mebane was avalible to almost everyone but because he is short and not real big, only Seattle realized that if he was 6'4" he would weight about 350lbs, and at 6' was so short no one could get low enough to get leverage on him. But when Bryant got too expensive, they replaced him with Cliff Avril (who weighs about 260lbs), and their run D is still awesome.

The point is that they don't get hung up on having a prototype guy for a position, they just worry about what each player needs to do to make the D successful. Whether it is Red Bryant at DE, or Cliff Avril, the 5 technique DE can't get hooked and caught inside. IF the 3 technique is a quick guy, they let him get into the gap, but the key is not over penetrating, which is why Alan Branch played the spot at 330lbs, and probably never got into the backfield all season.

The other big thing that has made Seattle so good is that they do the rugby tackling and they practice tackling every single day. Thy don't tackle live or in pads, but they do some work every single day. The Seahawks haven't led the league with the fewest missed tackles every year (not sure if they have done it at all), but they are consistently among the leaders and they allow very, very few yards after contact. It has been a huge part of their success. It has been a huge part of the Chargers failings on D, allowing players to get a lot more yardage, even when the D has basically defended a play pretty well.