Underrated Players - Desmond King (and Tyrell Williams)

[SYB]

IMO, Floyd was better than TWill. Floyd went deep and also competed for every ball. TWill isn't there yet.

Quit it. Floyd never eclipsed 1000k in a season or even really came close, T Will did it year #2. And in just 4 season is already half way to Floyd's 11 year career yardage and TD totals. Only thing Floyd was better at is high pointing the ball. And T Will has vastly improved in that area and should only keep improving.

[Sgt. Pepper]

I am/was a big fan of M80. He was clutch so many times. But he didn't have TyWill's speed, and that's what sets TyWill apart. In just his 2nd season as an undrafted rookie who spent most of his 1st season on the PC, TyWill became a 1,000 yard plus WR with 7 TDs after Keenan Allen and Stevie Johnson went down early, and without much other talent on the field with him that defenses had to respect. It took M80 six or seven seasons to come close to what TyWill did in year 2, and he never equaled TyWill's production in any single season.

[Steve]

The Floyd vs Willaims thing is an argument no one can ever win. It is a WHICH ONE IS BETTER thing. What makes a better WR? Given the two never played in the same offense, the story is muddled even before you start. But unles everyone can find a common idea of what makes the BEST WR, you cannot win argument.

Both were good deep receivers. Floyd took a long time to build his speed, but was much more athletic at the end of his routes, winning jump balls, high pointing it, and just generally winning the contested catches. He was the king of the deep out, and while he was at the top of his game, no one did it better than him. But he was dreadful at short quick routes. He didn't slants, quick outs, or really any quick route including the quick fade. He was reasonably good at getting off of press coverage, and winning one on one contests, although he wasn't going to do a Randy Moss and make acrobatic catches with 3 and 4 defenders around.

Williams was not anything like Floyd. Williams is developing into a decent passing tree kinda guy. Not great at the quick routes, but runs some nice crossing routes. He cannot get off of press coverage

Williams big mistake going forward is having excepted a contract that is so huge he will never be able to justify the value of it. He is the best paid #2 WR in football, and is a the bottom of the true #1 WR. He is making slightly less than Keenan Allen. The difference is Keenan Allen can do a lot more stuff well. He runs the whole route tree, and can be featured in every type of game plan. Teams can press him, play off, and Allen can find a way to be productive. Is Williams going to be able to put up #1 type numbers opposite the 2nd highest paid WR in football? And how tolerant of his lack of fight vs contested passes. Williams is a lot better than he was, but fans tolerance drops when the salary goes up. The raiders and their fans are going to want nearly #1 WR production out of him, and Williams is just not there yet. It will be interesting to see if we get him back in 2 years when the Raiders give up on Williams. There will still be good football in him. He is a good player, just not a $11 mill per season guy.

[beachcomber]

personally suspect that TWill has a (very) good chance to blow up this year, and given that he was half forced off the roster by our GM's seventh overall pick, who again in my personal estimation didn't exactly deserve the promotion he got, as don't think he was convincingly better if that than Williams ?? we are gonna miss him me thinx (and Liuget).

[Boltjolt]

personally suspect that TWill has a (very) good chance to blow up this year, and given that he was half forced off the roster by our GM's seventh overall pick, who again in my personal estimation didn't exactly deserve the promotion he got, as don't think he was convincingly better if that than Williams ?? we are gonna miss him me thinx (and Liuget).

You got to be kidding! Suggesting that TWill is better than MWill is a joke. Don't know what you ha e against MWill but you have something

[Sgt. Pepper]

You got to be kidding! Suggesting that TWill is better than MWill is a joke. Don't know what you ha e against MWill but you have something

They are about even. Mike is the cheaper option at this point so they let Tyrell go.

[Boltjolt]

They are about even. Mike is the cheaper option at this point so they let Tyrell go.

MWill's ceiling is a lot higher than TWills and MWill is a better route runner and attacks the ball and frankly makes more plays. Imo they aren't even at all.
TWill disappeared at times because his get off from the LOS isn't that great if pressed. I've always liked Tyrell but he isn't the caliber if WR that Mike is. The only thing Tyrell has over Mike is top end speed.

[jamrock]

The Floyd vs Willaims thing is an argument no one can ever win. It is a WHICH ONE IS BETTER thing. What makes a better WR? Given the two never played in the same offense, the story is muddled even before you start. But unles everyone can find a common idea of what makes the BEST WR, you cannot win argument.

Both were good deep receivers. Floyd took a long time to build his speed, but was much more athletic at the end of his routes, winning jump balls, high pointing it, and just generally winning the contested catches. He was the king of the deep out, and while he was at the top of his game, no one did it better than him. But he was dreadful at short quick routes. He didn't slants, quick outs, or really any quick route including the quick fade. He was reasonably good at getting off of press coverage, and winning one on one contests, although he wasn't going to do a Randy Moss and make acrobatic catches with 3 and 4 defenders around.

Williams was not anything like Floyd. Williams is developing into a decent passing tree kinda guy. Not great at the quick routes, but runs some nice crossing routes. He cannot get off of press coverage

Williams big mistake going forward is having excepted a contract that is so huge he will never be able to justify the value of it. He is the best paid #2 WR in football, and is a the bottom of the true #1 WR. He is making slightly less than Keenan Allen. The difference is Keenan Allen can do a lot more stuff well. He runs the whole route tree, and can be featured in every type of game plan. Teams can press him, play off, and Allen can find a way to be productive. Is Williams going to be able to put up #1 type numbers opposite the 2nd highest paid WR in football? And how tolerant of his lack of fight vs contested passes. Williams is a lot better than he was, but fans tolerance drops when the salary goes up. The raiders and their fans are going to want nearly #1 WR production out of him, and Williams is just not there yet. It will be interesting to see if we get him back in 2 years when the Raiders give up on Williams. There will still be good football in him. He is a good player, just not a $11 mill per season guy.

Agree with most of this. I loved M80 but the big difference was health. M80 was oft injured and TyEill almost never hurt

[SYB]

MWill's ceiling is a lot higher than TWills and MWill is a better route runner and attacks the ball and frankly makes more plays. Imo they aren't even at all.
TWill disappeared at times because his get off from the LOS isn't that great if pressed. I've always liked Tyrell but he isn't the caliber if WR that Mike is. The only thing Tyrell has over Mike is top end speed.

I wonder how good Tyrell could have been had he been lucky enough to land a scholarship to Clemson and WR whisperer Dabo, instead of bumfuck Western Oregon. And not only for the obvious coaching upgrade, but the level of competition on game days and practice. With his combo of size and speed, I feel like he could have been special.

[Sgt. Pepper]

MWill's ceiling is a lot higher than TWills and MWill is a better route runner and attacks the ball and frankly makes more plays. Imo they aren't even at all.
TWill disappeared at times because his get off from the LOS isn't that great if pressed. I've always liked Tyrell but he isn't the caliber if WR that Mike is. The only thing Tyrell has over Mike is top end speed.

I don't think their respective bodies of work support this at all. I saw Mike fail to catch balls that you would expect him to make plenty of times last season. Tyrell was always ahead of Mike on the depth chart and played more snaps than Mike in 2018. That should tell you who the coaches had the most confidence in.

[Boltjolt]

I don't think their respective bodies of work support this at all. I saw Mike fail to catch balls that you would expect him to make plenty of times last season. Tyrell was always ahead of Mike on the depth chart and played more snaps than Mike in 2018. That should tell you who the coaches had the most confidence in.

Yeah it should. Who did they go to later in the year? It was MWill. Mike had more receptions and twice the TDs with over 100 less snaps.
Anyone who don't think Mike's ceiling isn't far higher than Tyrell is high imo.

[Steve]

I would have loved to have kept T Williams, but not at $11 million per season. Sadly for him, it really isn't even that good a contract for him. He gets $10 million up front, but the type of bonus and the fully guaranteed salary this season are the only guaranteed money, so Oakland is free to cut him after this year, with no cap penalty.

I think T Williams could still be special. He needed to be in the right situation, and that probably won't happen. Clearly, given the structure of the Raiders deal, he needs to produce now or else.

Again, who is better M Williams or T Williams depends on what "better" means, so you can't win that argument (it's a moving target). What i think you can safely say, is who would you rather have. Right now, the choice is Mike Williams with a cap number of $5.4 million and a lot of upside, or T Williams an $11 million, plus you would have to cut about another $5-8 million from the roster to be able to sign T. Williams to the deal he got.

Mike Williams is still a young player who is developing. So is T. Williams. Neither is a complete player right now. You have to figure, based on where he is in his career, and how he is playing, Mike Williams has more upside. T. Williams is at the end of his 4-year deal, and he had played well enough he was going to leave and get paid. He is not going to be the last player we lose. Maybe we can get T. Williams back, when he underperforms the contract he got from the Raiders because it is going to be very, very difficult for him to perform up to that level. But no matter how much he improves, he won't be getting $11 mil per year from us.

The depth chart thing is not really all that relevant. They were both top 3 WR, and we play 3 WR for 75% of our offensive snaps. They are both key players. If you are going to go that route, why not compare the rushing yardage.