Offensive Line Discussion

[wu-dai clan]

I don't know if I would use the term "wait" to develop for any of our OL.

I think Pipkins has the kind of footwork that can make him our future LT. However, given the NFL game right now, I wouldn't let that prevent me from drafting an OT with our 1st pick, even if I expect Okung back. Most OT types can play inside if needed.

We need competition at EVERY spot on the OL.

People keep talking about Pouncey playing well [that would include our GM, who has emphasized ProBowl status and leadership from Pouncey] but he is a shell of his former self. He has been "solid" for us, but his pass protection has been inconsistent, so if someone can compete with him, I would put his job up for grabs. Quessenberry had some moments, but he didn't exactly run away with the job [this is a key point IMV-I project Qberry to OG-we need a Center]. Feeney has some ability at C, but he is stuck spinning his wheels. Even the C spot is up for grabs

OG is a little better than C . Feeney did have some time this year where he wasn't a turnstile. But every time I thought he was making progress, he would regress again. He is on his rookie deal, so bring him back, just make sure we have someone (or more than 1 someone) to compete against him. Schofield is a ok 5th OL, but he shouldn't be our best player, which is what he was. I would like to see him back, if for no other reason to be the top backup off the bench at OT or OG, but we need to at least bring in someone to compete against him (or move someone over to compete). Lamp had some ups and downs, but his downs were awkward, and he need to stay healthy. He did look like he was getting better when he was playing. [in your own words, it does not sound encouraging at IOL ! I am sick of Feeney's shit. Schofield is consistently mediocre. I am MUCH more concerned about Pouncey's medical situation, with his neck + the tremendous leadership void a flareup would cause.]

Right now, based on last season's performances, only Okung is playing at a level that would I would say is "safe" . But his health situation makes him a question mark, as does his age [wut ? now you are being Dr. Death, predictor of doom, about Okung's clots ? smh.] Pipkins has the signs of a keeper [lol...let's not get too optimistic about OT, Chief.] but he is not a complete player by any stretch. His upper body looks lost. Scott had some impressive plays leading runs, and screens in space, but he tends to duck his head and then he whiffs spectacularly. I wouldn't rule him out by any means, but some guys can't ever get over that one bad habit, and he doesn't seem to be able to get over that [right...that one bad habit. Scott is a pile.]. Tevi has gotten a lot better since he was a rookie, but he was so raw you have to wonder how much better he can get [this makes no sense-sky's the limit-we need more Tevi grit @ Oline.] He was injured, and is still on his rookie deal, so he will be back. Adding a #1 pick to compete against him would be about what the doctor ordered.

Other fish to fry...

:coffee:

[Fleet]

We have 1 OT signed for 2021 i think. Pipkins. Im guessing Okung when hes done may end up doing something for the league. He is already trying to get the gig.

Ive been thinking of ways to make the transition easier. Like by seeing if we could trade Keenan to Washington for Trent Williams. He takes over at LT this year and Okung plays RT. Then Pip plays RT in 2021.

Draft Lamb or Jeudy

[Topcat]

I don't know if I would use the term "wait" to develop for any of our OL.

I think Pipkins has the kind of footwork that can make him our future LT. However, given the NFL game right now, I wouldn't let that prevent me from drafting an OT with our 1st pick, even if I expect Okung back. Most OT types can play inside if needed.

We need competition at EVERY spot on the OL.

People keep talking about Pouncey playing well, but he is a shell of his former self. He has been "solid" for us, but his pass protection has been inconsistent, so if someone can compete with him, I would put his job up for grabs. Quessenberry had some moments, but he didn't exactly run away with the job. Feeney has some ability at C, but he is stuck spinning his wheels. Even the C spot is up for grabs

OG is a little better than C. Feeney did have some time this year where he wasn't a turnstile. But every time I thought he was making progress, he would regress again. He is on his rookie deal, so bring him back, just make sure we have someone (or more than 1 someone) to compete against him. Schofield is a ok 5th OL, but he shouldn't be our best player, which is what he was. I would like to see him back, if for no other reason to be the top backup off the bench at OT or OG, but we need to at least bring in someone to compete against him (or move someone over to compete). Lamp had some ups and downs, but his downs were awkward, and he need to stay healthy. He did look like he was getting better when he was playing.

Right now, based on last season's performances, only Okung is playing at a level that would I would say is "safe" . But his health situation makes him a question mark, as does his age. Pipkins has the signs of a keeper, but he is not a complete player by any stretch. His upper body looks lost. Scott had some impressive plays leading runs, and screens in space, but he tends to duck his head and then he whiffs spectacularly. I wouldn't rule him out by any means, but some guys can't ever get over that one bad habit, and he doesn't seem to be able to get over that. Tevi has gotten a lot better since he was a rookie, but he was so raw you have to wonder how much better he can get. He was injured, and is still on his rookie deal, so he will be back. Adding a #1 pick to compete against him would be about what the doctor ordered.

Tevi has had TWO YEARS as a starter to show what he's got...and what he's shown is that he just can't stop any decent edge rusher...sorry, done with him...

[wu-dai clan]

Tevi has had TWO YEARS as a starter to show what he's got...and what he's shown is that he just can't stop any decent edge rusher...sorry, done with him...

The people who make the decisions are not done with Tevi.

You don't even have one of your nicknames yet.

That's how good and tough Sam is.

And Schofield offers little inside help. or the playcalling. or the blocking schemes.

Even Ramczyk has problems with speed.
Conklin too.

How many draft picks, how much cap space you wanna spend on this shit ?

With your PFF grades ?

It's the IOL.

I'll take a Slot WR with a better first name than Artavis...one who can beat press early.

[Steve]

Everyone seems to think that the FA list as it sits now is what will be available. That is hopelessly optimistic.

Every year, the list at this point in the season kinda ... sorta .... has some names you might be able to work with, and then the teams that have those players now will come in and resign the guys who are not hopelessly flawed. So the best names never make it to FA.

Then, as I point out, you might as well burn the money, because those FA who do sign for huge money, will be hopeless. Go back and look at the FA OL over the last few years and list shows complete frustration. This is a historical FACT.

People assume you will get the player you saw in the contract year, and that simply isn't what happens. It just isn't.

I don't understand where people seem to think that FA is going to be ANY help. It rarely works. You just have to look a the historical performance across the NFL. Players sign for big money, and mostly it is just a waste of money. The last 3 or so years, even completely marginal players get huge money, because there is so much empty cap space among teams.

The ONLY way that seems to work is if the FA are forced to stay hungry. In Denver, in the Peyton Manning years, they were very successful because they had 1st dibs at FA< because they were competing for a SB, and any FA who signed KNEW he was going to be on a very short leash. Any amount of not performing, you were benched for someone else.

This idea that you can simply ignore the players we have and bring in some outside is just crap. We don't have enough money and draft picks to invest in ENOUGH players to do any more than rebuild the OL. WE have to have guys brought in and allow them to compete, with no expectation as to who will start. We need 2 or 3 guys at every spot on the OL, and just see who wins. No big money FA, because then we have NO chance of making it work. It would take all of our draft capital, and all of our outside FA money to get players. And if players get a big signing bonus, they know we can't touch them because of the salary cap, and the whole thing breaks down.

As far as the rookie posters go, they are just doing the usual fan thing. I am hurting, so I want the players who caused it to hurt too. They just respond emotionally, and seem to miss the plays where our individual OL actually do things well. When they do things poorly, see if there is something that they do that do that causes it. The big example is that when Scott misses a block, it is almost always because he looks down right before contact. His weight goes too far forward and his hands land off the mark, if he even hits the target. When he sits back, has his body in position and keeps his head up, he is reasonably successful. He could be more aggressive as a run blocker, but that is simply the lack of confidence that comes from looking down half the time and doing it right half the time.

Tevi has gotten a lot better technique in the last two year, so to say he hasn't made any progress is simply showing your ignorance on the subject. He was also obviously playing through an injury this season, and you can see that in how he played.

When push comes to shove the Chargers need to figure out how to develop players. There is no more important thing for an NFL team to do. That is the gig. Every season guys contracts will come up and players will leave, and if there is no steady pipeline of replacements, then you are doomed. All players coming out of college have flaws. It is up to coaching to get them ready to play.

[Boltjolt]

Everyone seems to think that the FA list as it sits now is what will be available. That is hopelessly optimistic.

Every year, the list at this point in the season kinda ... sorta .... has some names you might be able to work with, and then the teams that have those players now will come in and resign the guys who are not hopelessly flawed. So the best names never make it to FA.

Then, as I point out, you might as well burn the money, because those FA who do sign for huge money, will be hopeless. Go back and look at the FA OL over the last few years and list shows complete frustration. This is a historical FACT.

People assume you will get the player you saw in the contract year, and that simply isn't what happens. It just isn't.

I don't understand where people seem to think that FA is going to be ANY help. It rarely works. You just have to look a the historical performance across the NFL. Players sign for big money, and mostly it is just a waste of money. The last 3 or so years, even completely marginal players get huge money, because there is so much empty cap space among teams.

The ONLY way that seems to work is if the FA are forced to stay hungry. In Denver, in the Peyton Manning years, they were very successful because they had 1st dibs at FA< because they were competing for a SB, and any FA who signed KNEW he was going to be on a very short leash. Any amount of not performing, you were benched for someone else.

This idea that you can simply ignore the players we have and bring in some outside is just crap. We don't have enough money and draft picks to invest in ENOUGH players to do any more than rebuild the OL. WE have to have guys brought in and allow them to compete, with no expectation as to who will start. We need 2 or 3 guys at every spot on the OL, and just see who wins. No big money FA, because then we have NO chance of making it work. It would take all of our draft capital, and all of our outside FA money to get players. And if players get a big signing bonus, they know we can't touch them because of the salary cap, and the whole thing breaks down.

As far as the rookie posters go, they are just doing the usual fan thing. I am hurting, so I want the players who caused it to hurt too. They just respond emotionally, and seem to miss the plays where our individual OL actually do things well. When they do things poorly, see if there is something that they do that do that causes it. The big example is that when Scott misses a block, it is almost always because he looks down right before contact. His weight goes too far forward and his hands land off the mark, if he even hits the target. When he sits back, has his body in position and keeps his head up, he is reasonably successful. He could be more aggressive as a run blocker, but that is simply the lack of confidence that comes from looking down half the time and doing it right half the time.

Tevi has gotten a lot better technique in the last two year, so to say he hasn't made any progress is simply showing your ignorance on the subject. He was also obviously playing through an injury this season, and you can see that in how he played.

When push comes to shove the Chargers need to figure out how to develop players. There is no more important thing for an NFL team to do. That is the gig. Every season guys contracts will come up and players will leave, and if there is no steady pipeline of replacements, then you are doomed. All players coming out of college have flaws. It is up to coaching to get them ready to play.

While I'm not wanting us to sign a crap load of free agents, I would like to see a couple of good players signed. They just have to sign the right ones.

Casey Hayward has worked out and while not a spectacular signing, Virgil Green has been what we would have expected,.... so while I agree with most of this, I don't agree with some of it.

You don't think if Bosa walks he won't ball out somewhere else? And Z'Darius Smith who I wanted us to sign last year has worked out in Green Bay.

[Topcat]

The people who make the decisions are not done with Tevi.

You don't even have one of your nicknames yet.

That's how good and tough Sam is.

And Schofield offers little inside help. or the playcalling. or the blocking schemes.

Even Ramczyk has problems with speed.
Conklin too.

How many draft picks, how much cap space you wanna spend on this shit ?

With your PFF grades ?

It's the IOL.

I'll take a Slot WR with a better first name than Artavis...one who can beat press early.

Wood, I do agree with you that IOL is a problem...especially Feeney with a dishonorable mention to Scho...but who can watch both Tevi and Scott allow multiple sacks and pressures without also agreeing that RT is also a huge area of liability?

And finally, Sam's nickname is...Turnstile Tevi...

[richpjr]

I don't understand where people seem to think that FA is going to be ANY help. It rarely works. You just have to look a the historical performance across the NFL. Players sign for big money, and mostly it is just a waste of money. The last 3 or so years, even completely marginal players get huge money, because there is so much empty cap space among teams.

This is exactly why TT wants to build the team from the draft.

When push comes to shove the Chargers need to figure out how to develop players. There is no more important thing for an NFL team to do. That is the gig. Every season guys contracts will come up and players will leave, and if there is no steady pipeline of replacements, then you are doomed. All players coming out of college have flaws. It is up to coaching to get them ready to play.

This is the biggest area we need to improve in, IMO.

[blueman]

Curious what a new OL coach might do with the pieces we have. Lamb at OT? Tevi moved inside? Can’t help wondering if there’s more to get out of these guys.

[wu-dai clan]

This is exactly why TT wants to build the team from the draft.



This is the biggest area we need to improve in, IMO.

Even "clean prospects" have a tough time
getting rid of certain bad habits they are afflicted with.

[wu-dai clan]

Curious what a new OL coach might do with the pieces we have. Lamb at OT? Tevi moved inside? Can’t help wondering if there’s more to get out of these guys.

Seems like it never ends.
Remember when we had Hudson Houck ?

[jamrock]

While I'm not wanting us to sign a crap load of free agents, I would like to see a couple of good players signed. They just have to sign the right ones.

Casey Hayward has worked out and while not a spectacular signing, Virgil Green has been what we would have expected,.... so while I agree with most of this, I don't agree with some of it.

You don't think if Bosa walks he won't ball out somewhere else? And Z'Darius Smith who I wanted us to sign last year has worked out in Green Bay.

The Chiefs are in the Super Bowl because they signed Clark and Honey Badger