2019 Other NFL and Super Bowl Discussion

[richpjr]

I ain't saying he's coming. Just saying between Burrow and Dalton we have a better chance to get Dalton.

I actually agree with this. Another throw up in my mouth QB we could sign would be Carr. Shudder...

[Boltjolt]

I ain't saying he's coming. Just saying between Burrow and Dalton we have a better chance to get Dalton.

True. We can probably get Dalton for a subscription to Netflix....maybe add in a subscription to Amazon Prime.
However....PASS!

[captaind]

I actually agree with this. Another throw up in my mouth QB we could sign would be Carr. Shudder...

I hear Eli might be available.

[PR#1]

Sorry, but I cannot get on board with what I perceive as some pretty ridiculous overreactions to Burrow in this thread tonight. IMO, some of you guys simply are not projecting Burrow accurately at the next level.

Thinking that Burrow is going to be the next Elway, or even Andrew Luck, names mentioned in this thread tonight, to me seems like some pretty questionable takes. Elway was supremely physcially gifted, blessed with an absolute cannon of an arm and the ability to run. Luck also had a strong arm and was an above average runner in terms of both strength and speed for a QB. Equally questionable is the notion that somehow it would be Burrow making the Saints or Patriots contenders forever because of what Burrow brings to the table versus what Payton or Belichick, two of the best head coaches in NFL history, bring to the table.

Burrow may turn out to be a fine NFL player, but he is not going to be able to constantly float balls to wide open receivers like he has for much of this season with LSU. The windows will be much tighter and his lack of arm strength, which is fairly obvious, is going to be exposed at least to some degree. Coaches can scheme against a QB's weaknesses as the Titans just did against Lamar Jackson. And worse yet, Burrow does not exactly appear to have a quick release to offset his less than great arm strength (see Rivers, Philip).

I like Burrow's ability to work through progressions and he has some ability to extend plays, so that may help him to offset his lack of arm strength, but in my view, not only is Burrow not the greatest thing since sliced bread, he presents as a pretty substantial bust potential at the next level in terms of carrying the expected value of a #1 overall pick. That does not mean that he will not be able to compete in the NFL, just that there is a very real possibility that his NFL career will be nothing at all like what some of you seem to think it is going to be. He may end up being one of those players that is a great college QB, but not a great NFL QB. And that is just way too much risk for a player to be worthy of the #1 overall pick.

And to be clear, I am not talking about the kind of risk that every NFL draft pick carries. In my view, a player being discussed as a top 5 and potential #1 overall pick needs to be an elite player that is a virtual lock to be a great player at the NFL level. No matter how anyone tries to spin it, the fact that Burrow can't spin it, makes him a greater risk than what would be ideal for an early first round pick.

Not only would I not trade 3 first round picks (or more) for Burrow, I would not select Burrow if I had the first pick overall and I would not draft him at #6 overall either. That said, I can see how a desperate Bengals team would be willing to roll the dice and hope that Burrow could overcome his limitations, especially as Dalton appears to have fallen out of favor with their current coaches.

Still, the reality is that Dwayne Haskins beat out Joe Burrow at Ohio State, which is why Burrow had to transfer to LSU in the first place. And if Washington took Burrow with the #2 overall pick in this year's draft (which is unlikely), Haskins would likely beat Burrow out all over again.

Also, my expectation is that Lawrence, if given an equal team with which to compete (which he clearly did not have tonight), is and always will be better than Burrow.

In terms of the 2020 draft, I do not want the Chargers to take a QB at all because none of them are as good as Rivers still is. However, if the Chargers do take a QB with the #6 overall pick, I would rather have Herbert than either Burrow or Tagovailoa, though I do not love any of the three as safe franchise QB prospects.

Great post. This is what I have been trying to say for some time now, you just said it far better than I could.

His lack of arm strength is going to be a huge liability and he wont be surrounded by a superstar team like LSU in the NFL.

He'll have to do a lot more of it himself. He doesn't have great speed and if he runs in the nfl he could seriously get hurt.

[Boltjolt]

Great post. This is what I have been trying to say for some time now, you just said it far better than I could.

His lack of arm strength is going to be a huge liability and he wont be surrounded by a superstar team like LSU in the NFL.

He'll have to do a lot more of it himself. He doesn't have great speed and if he runs in the nfl he could seriously get hurt.

Hmmm, disagree.

Lack of arm strength...you just discribed a lot of NFL QBs including Rivers, Brees,Brady, Flutie, Cousins, Mayfield, ...shit I could go on for a while. The best QBs don't have rifle arms. You just need to be able to make all the throws, not throw them 100 mph.

Burrows arm is fine as is all the above mentioned.

Brees didn't have a good arm coming out but he did his core work and it got better.

As for his running.....you can say he could get seriously hurt about every QB who runs the ball. Burrows speed isn't bad and the fact that he can escape and run is a huge plus for us since it is the OL that would most likely get him hurt being a rookie.

Lastly, our WRs, RBs and TE are better than any he had on LSU. Don't get that comment.

We only lack a OL.....and a 3rd WR but we also have Ekeler.

[dmac_bolt]

The poster is leaving out a very important part of the story. And kind of making stuff up there with the conclusions. What happened at OSU. Burrow broke his right hand.

Haskins won because Burrow was injured.

we just don't know how things transpire if Burrow was healthy.

https://www.si.com/college/ohiostate...ransfer-to-lsu

So you’re saying he’s an injury risk?

[dmac_bolt]

Hmmm, disagree.

Lack of arm strength...you just discribed a lot of NFL QBs including Rivers, Brees,Brady, Flutie, Cousins, Mayfield, ...shit I could go on for a while. The best QBs don't have rifle arms. You just need to be able to make all the throws, not throw them 100 mph.

Burrows arm is fine as is all the above mentioned.

Brees didn't have a good arm coming out but he did his core work and it got better.

As for his running.....you can say he could get seriously hurt about every QB who runs the ball. Burrows speed isn't bad and the fact that he can escape and run is a huge plus for us since it is the OL that would most likely get him hurt being a rookie.

Lastly, our WRs, RBs and TE are better than any he had on LSU. Don't get that comment.

We only lack a OL.....and a 3rd WR but we also have Ekeler.

There’s nothing wrong with Burrow’s arm. Agree 100%. I think in 2 yrs, Lawrence could have the higher ceiling but thats just a guess and Burrow is the real deal now. Trade the farm if Cincy will listen. Cobble a FA based OL, this is a 15 year solution, not a 2-3 year draft pick issue.

Cincy won’t listen, there is no shot, and this is all academic. Meh - its January, i don’t have anything better to do ...

[Guest]

Hmmm, disagree.

Lack of arm strength...you just discribed a lot of NFL QBs including Rivers, Brees,Brady, Flutie, Cousins, Mayfield, ...shit I could go on for a while. The best QBs don't have rifle arms. You just need to be able to make all the throws, not throw them 100 mph.

Burrows arm is fine as is all the above mentioned.

Brees didn't have a good arm coming out but he did his core work and it got better.

As for his running.....you can say he could get seriously hurt about every QB who runs the ball. Burrows speed isn't bad and the fact that he can escape and run is a huge plus for us since it is the OL that would most likely get him hurt being a rookie.

Lastly, our WRs, RBs and TE are better than any he had on LSU. Don't get that comment.

We only lack a OL.....and a 3rd WR but we also have Ekeler.

And let's look at those QBs you listed. Brees was drafted in the second round, Brady in the 6th, Cousins in the 4th, and Flutie in the 11th round, a round that no longer exists under the current draft format. I have no issues with where those QBs were drafted. Those drafting those particular QBs saw that there was risk associated with those QBs so they did not take them early in the first round, but they ultimately saw positive traits that they felt made them worthy of being drafted in a later round.

Any draft pick has at least some chance of being unexpectedly great, but using examples of QBs that overperformed their draft slot to justify overlooking observable weaknesses in a player that should cause the player to be downgraded at least to some degree is simply not sound reasoning.

Nobody is saying that Burrow should not be drafted at all. My position is that I would not take Burrow at #1 overall or even at #6 overall where the Chargers draft. I certainly do not want the Chargers to expend multiple draft picks to move up to get Burrow.

Rivers does not have a rocket arm, but it is stronger than Burrow's and Rivers has the fastest timed release of any NFL QB, which makes his overall ball delivery time faster than it would otherwise be.

Also, I would say that so far, through two seasons, Mayfield has proven my point, not yours, as a QB with some physical limitations being selected #1 overall. To this point, Mayfield has not proven to be worth anything close to the value of the #1 overall draft slot.

The poster to whom you responded correctly noted that LSU had a superstar team. Your comparison of LSU's players to NFL players misses the point. The meaningful comparison is LSU's players to the players of LSU's opponents. LSU's receivers were very open very frequently, so Burrow could make easy tosses to them. That is not to say that he was not able to place the ball effectively into some smaller windows at times at the collegiate window because he was, but the NFL is a different animal.

Burrow will not have time to order a pizza in the NFL like he did at LSU. His receivers will not be as open. The windows will be smaller and open for smaller amounts of time. For an NFL QB, Burrow has a below average to low average arm. In my view, his arm is not as good as that of any of the QBs you listed.

All of that said, I think there is no reason why Burrow, who does have some positive traits, could not succeed in system that emphasizes the short passing game. But I am not taking taking such a QB with an early first round draft pick.

[Boltjolt]

And let's look at those QBs you listed. Brees was drafted in the second round, Brady in the 6th, Cousins in the 4th, and Flutie in the 11th round, a round that no longer exists under the current draft format. I have no issues with where those QBs were drafted. Those drafting those particular QBs saw that there was risk associated with those QBs so they did not take them early in the first round, but they ultimately saw positive traits that they felt made them worthy of being drafted in a later round.

Any draft pick has at least some chance of being unexpectedly great, but using examples of QBs that overperformed their draft slot to justify overlooking observable weaknesses in a player that should cause the player to be downgraded at least to some degree is simply not sound reasoning.

Nobody is saying that Burrow should not be drafted at all. My position is that I would not take Burrow at #1 overall or even at #6 overall where the Chargers draft. I certainly do not want the Chargers to expend multiple draft picks to move up to get Burrow.

Rivers does not have a rocket arm, but it is stronger than Burrow's and Rivers has the fastest timed release of any NFL QB, which makes his overall ball delivery time faster than it would otherwise be.

Also, I would say that so far, through two seasons, Mayfield has proven my point, not yours, as a QB with some physical limitations being selected #1 overall. To this point, Mayfield has not proven to be worth anything close to the value of the #1 overall draft slot.

The poster to whom you responded correctly noted that LSU had a superstar team. Your comparison of LSU's players to NFL players misses the point. The meaningful comparison is LSU's players to the players of LSU's opponents. LSU's receivers were very open very frequently, so Burrow could make easy tosses to them. That is not to say that he was not able to place the ball effectively into some smaller windows at times at the collegiate window because he was, but the NFL is a different animal.

Burrow will not have time to order a pizza in the NFL like he did at LSU. His receivers will not be as open. The windows will be smaller and open for smaller amounts of time. For an NFL QB, Burrow has a below average to low average arm. In my view, his arm is not as good as that of any of the QBs you listed.

All of that said, I think there is no reason why Burrow, who does have some positive traits, could not succeed in system that emphasizes the short passing game. But I am not taking taking such a QB with an early first round draft pick.

There is nothing wrong with Burrows arm. And every QB has it easier in college compared to the NFL. Tua had many wide open WRs too. So did Hurts and Herbert. Herbert just isn't an accurate passer past 10 yards. Oh btw, he has a strong arm.

I just named QBs who have had success, some big success. Didn't matter what round they were drafted in. I can name more that were higher but what's the point? Your have your views already.

A strong armed QB certainly doesn't make them better. So does Josh Allen who wasn't very accurate in college ....or Kyle Boller.

[Guest]

There is nothing wrong with Burrows arm. And every QB has it easier in college compared to the NFL. Tua had many wide open WRs too. So did Hurts and Herbert. Herbert just isn't an accurate passer past 10 yards. Oh btw, he has a strong arm.

I just named QBs who have had success, some big success. Didn't matter what round they were drafted in. I can name more that were higher but what's the point? Your have your views already.

A strong armed QB certainly doesn't make them better. So does Jared Allen who wasn't very accurate in college ....or Kyle Boller.

Yes, there is something wrong with Burrow's arm strength. That is the primary criticism made against him and why some had him rated as a 4th or 5th round prospect going into this season. Analysts were not just making that stuff up about Burrow. He did not suddenly undergo bionic arm surgery, so that issue remains.

Burrow does other things well, so that is what is likely going to punch his early first round draft ticket. And I will be glad when it is not the Chargers buying that ticket.

As far as doing crazy stuff like trading up by expending multiple draft picks to move to #1 overall, let me just throw a few names out to you...Michael Vick, David Carr, Carson Palmer, Eli Manning, Alex Smith, JaMarcus Russell, Matthew Stafford, Sam Bradford, Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, Jameis Winston, Jared Goff, Baker Mayfield and Kyler Murray. All of those QBs were THE big deal #1 player when it was their turn to be selected and none of them have lived up to being the top player in the draft in which they were taken.

That should speak loudly on the strategy of trading away multiple first round picks to move up to #1 overall to select a QB. The instance in which such a move should be considered is very rare. The player must really be a can't miss player that checks all of the measurable boxes and has good tape--like a once in a decade kind of player. Burrow is not such a player. Trevor Lawrence may well be and even then it is a very risky approach to take.

And to be clear, my preference of Herbert over Burrow does not mean I like Herbert. It simply means I would rather have Herbert than Burrow if I had to take one of them. But I do not want the Chargers to draft a QB at all in this year's draft. I do want them to re-sign Rivers.

[Boltjolt]

Yes, there is something wrong with Burrow's arm strength. That is the primary criticism made against him and why some had him rated as a 4th or 5th round prospect going into this season. Analysts were not just making that stuff up about Burrow. He did not suddenly undergo bionic arm surgery, so that issue remains.

Burrow does other things well, so that is what is likely going to punch his early first round draft ticket. And I will be glad when it is not the Chargers buying that ticket.

As far as doing crazy stuff like trading up by expending multiple draft picks to move to #1 overall, let me just throw a few names out to you...Michael Vick, David Carr, Carson Palmer, Eli Manning, Alex Smith, JaMarcus Russell, Matthew Stafford, Sam Bradford, Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, Jameis Winston, Jared Goff, Baker Mayfield and Kyler Murray. All of those QBs were THE big deal #1 player when it was their turn to be selected and none of them have lived up to being the top player in the draft in which they were taken.

That should speak loudly on the strategy of trading away multiple first round picks to move up to #1 overall to select a QB. The instance in which such a move should be considered is very rare. The player must really be a can't miss player that checks all of the measurable boxes and has good tape--like a once in a decade kind of player. Burrow is not such a player. Trevor Lawrence may well be and even then it is a very risky approach to take.

And to be clear, my preference of Herbert over Burrow does not mean I like Herbert. It simply means I would rather have Herbert than Burrow if I had to take one of them. But I do not want the Chargers to draft a QB at all in this year's draft. I do want them to re-sign Rivers.

Well aware thank you. And Herbert over Burrow is funny, Herbert will probably go top 10, not worth a first round pick IMO

Nothing wrong with Burrows arm but, whatever

[Guest]

Well aware thank you. And Herbert over Burrow is funny, Herbert will probably go top 10, not worth a first round pick IMO

Nothing wrong with Burrows arm but, whatever

The thought of the Chargers taking a QB in this year's draft is funny for moment, but it might be sad later if the Chargers actually draft one of these QB bozos. As I have repeatedly said, I do not love Herbert. I just like him more than Burrow, which is not saying all that much.

Burrow's lack of elite arm talent has been commented upon by multiple draft pundits. It is not a new concept in the discussion of Burrow and it is as plain as day obvious when watching Burrow. I can't believe one poster actually maintained that Burrow had a strong arm, which I guess would be true if we were using Chad Pennington's post 4th shoulder surgery arm as the measuring stick.

Please feel free to continue to advocate for a QB trade up to #1 overall strategy that has not worked once this century. Maybe we could bring back Frank Reich to call some more draw plays for us while we are at it. :banghead: