Originally posted by Boltgang74
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Telesco Needs To Be Relieved Of Duties..
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I think we should not be comparing Rd vs Rd.
We should look at draft per draft. Telesco vs Ravens.
Telesco 2013 found 1 really good player. K.Allen-WR and he is still on the team.
Ravens 2013 found a few good players. B.Williams-DT and he is still on their team. They also found R.Wagner-OT and R.Jensen-OC, J.Simon-DL, K.Juszcyk-FB. Jensen and Simon didn't give them anything, they develop later for other teams. But just that draft alone they found how many tough physical line of scrimmage players.
Telesco 2014 he got nothing out of it. His best selection Verrett was red flag for injury concerns and that proves to be true.
Ravens 2014, not that good, nobody still remains on roster, but they got 77 starts from Mosley-LB, 24 starts from Jernigan-DT, and 19 starts from Urban-DE. And again like draft before they found some line of scrimmage physical players.
2015 Telesco trade up for Gordon and also drafted Perryman, Emanuel and Philon. None are still on team.
2015 draft for Ravens again not good as they don't have any of them rostered. But they found Z.Smith-DE/LB who developed later, another physical line of scrimmage player. And they drafted Darren Waller even though it didn't work out.
2016 Telesco find two good players. Bosa-DE and Henry-TE
2016 Ravens find two R.Staley-OT, Judon-LB
2017 Chargers end up with 1 good player remaining on team now M.Williams.
2017 Ravens find two players still remaining their team now. Humphrey-CB, Clark-DB
2018 Telesco has a great draft. James, White, Jones, Nwosu all playing defense now and getting lots of playing time.
2018 Ravens also have a great draft. Jackson-QB, Brown-OT, Andrews-TE, Bozeman-OL. And they also ended up a few season later dealing Brown and picking up another 1st Rd pick.
I think the differences are obvious, not only in finding good players but on who found many line of scrimmage players and who did not. And then also dealing a player to acquire a 1st Rd pick.
Telesco is no where near as good as the Ravens in overall impact and production of players they drafted.Who has it better than us?
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I'm all for criticizing Telesco and calling for his firing as long as facts aren't dismissed for lies and feelings.
In 2013 we got Telesco and McCoy, and retained DC Pagano. The best picks were bookends to the McCoy era: Allen in 2013 and Bosa in 2016.
In 2017 we got Lynn and a new DC in Bradley and switched from a 3-4 to a 4-3.
The first two drafts of the Lynn era were pretty good, resulting in a 12-4 record in 2018. Derwin and Herbert are the Lynn era's best picks.
In 2021 we got Staley, new coordinators, and switched back to a 3-4.
Lost in the usual shuffle of TT critiques are the changes of coaches, coordinators, and defense. I was in favor of changing to a 4-3 in 2017 and thought it would help Bosa. Going back to a 3-4 or whatever Staley runs will require more OLB's, and some true run-stuffing D-linemen.
TT's bad overall drafting is currently hidden behind great first round picks. But one home run and bunch of strikeouts per draft shouldn't cut it. There needs to be more singles and doubles like in 2018.
As a GM, the counter part to drafting is Free Agency. Which doesn't get talked about as much. Casey Hayward was a great signing. Linval Joseph has been a welcome addition. Okung, Pouncey, Linsley, Feiler, Mebane, and Woodhead to name some of his best. Maybe someone else can research all of his bad signings, because a lot of the names are quite forgettable. For good or for worse we never seem to be in the diva sweep stakes of free agency, meaning Telesco doesn't (that we know of) pursue the big and shiny skills players. He drafts the high end skills guys and supplements the lack of drafted 'beef' with FA 'beef.'
His current record as GM is something like 66-73 which is sub par. That alone shows the eventual need for new blood and a new approach.
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Kind of the chicken and the egg argument ...
Do GM find talent ......
or
... do coaches develop players ...
... or is it a combination of both?
If you fire TT right now, shouldn't the new GM be able to fire the coach and bring in his guy? Or do you make Staley the GM?
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Originally posted by Steve View PostKind of the chicken and the egg argument ...
Do GM find talent ......
or
... do coaches develop players ...
... or is it a combination of both?
If you fire TT right now, shouldn't the new GM be able to fire the coach and bring in his guy? Or do you make Staley the GM?
Only thing that concerns me is a new GM with the last name of Spanos.
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Originally posted by Critty View PostI think we should not be comparing Rd vs Rd.
We should look at draft per draft. Telesco vs Ravens.
Telesco 2013 found 1 really good player. K.Allen-WR and he is still on the team.
Ravens 2013 found a few good players. B.Williams-DT and he is still on their team. They also found R.Wagner-OT and R.Jensen-OC, J.Simon-DL, K.Juszcyk-FB. Jensen and Simon didn't give them anything, they develop later for other teams. But just that draft alone they found how many tough physical line of scrimmage players.
Telesco 2014 he got nothing out of it. His best selection Verrett was red flag for injury concerns and that proves to be true.
Ravens 2014, not that good, nobody still remains on roster, but they got 77 starts from Mosley-LB, 24 starts from Jernigan-DT, and 19 starts from Urban-DE. And again like draft before they found some line of scrimmage physical players.
2015 Telesco trade up for Gordon and also drafted Perryman, Emanuel and Philon. None are still on team.
2015 draft for Ravens again not good as they don't have any of them rostered. But they found Z.Smith-DE/LB who developed later, another physical line of scrimmage player. And they drafted Darren Waller even though it didn't work out.
2016 Telesco find two good players. Bosa-DE and Henry-TE
2016 Ravens find two R.Staley-OT, Judon-LB
2017 Chargers end up with 1 good player remaining on team now M.Williams.
2017 Ravens find two players still remaining their team now. Humphrey-CB, Clark-DB
2018 Telesco has a great draft. James, White, Jones, Nwosu all playing defense now and getting lots of playing time.
2018 Ravens also have a great draft. Jackson-QB, Brown-OT, Andrews-TE, Bozeman-OL. And they also ended up a few season later dealing Brown and picking up another 1st Rd pick.
I think the differences are obvious, not only in finding good players but on who found many line of scrimmage players and who did not. And then also dealing a player to acquire a 1st Rd pick.
Telesco is no where near as good as the Ravens in overall impact and production of players they drafted.
also you should add Ekeler to 2017 players
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Originally posted by Critty View PostI think we should not be comparing Rd vs Rd.
We should look at draft per draft. Telesco vs Ravens.
Telesco 2013 found 1 really good player. K.Allen-WR and he is still on the team.
Ravens 2013 found a few good players. B.Williams-DT and he is still on their team. They also found R.Wagner-OT and R.Jensen-OC, J.Simon-DL, K.Juszcyk-FB. Jensen and Simon didn't give them anything, they develop later for other teams. But just that draft alone they found how many tough physical line of scrimmage players.
Telesco 2014 he got nothing out of it. His best selection Verrett was red flag for injury concerns and that proves to be true.
Ravens 2014, not that good, nobody still remains on roster, but they got 77 starts from Mosley-LB, 24 starts from Jernigan-DT, and 19 starts from Urban-DE. And again like draft before they found some line of scrimmage physical players.
2015 Telesco trade up for Gordon and also drafted Perryman, Emanuel and Philon. None are still on team.
2015 draft for Ravens again not good as they don't have any of them rostered. But they found Z.Smith-DE/LB who developed later, another physical line of scrimmage player. And they drafted Darren Waller even though it didn't work out.
2016 Telesco find two good players. Bosa-DE and Henry-TE
2016 Ravens find two R.Staley-OT, Judon-LB
2017 Chargers end up with 1 good player remaining on team now M.Williams.
2017 Ravens find two players still remaining their team now. Humphrey-CB, Clark-DB
2018 Telesco has a great draft. James, White, Jones, Nwosu all playing defense now and getting lots of playing time.
2018 Ravens also have a great draft. Jackson-QB, Brown-OT, Andrews-TE, Bozeman-OL. And they also ended up a few season later dealing Brown and picking up another 1st Rd pick.
I think the differences are obvious, not only in finding good players but on who found many line of scrimmage players and who did not. And then also dealing a player to acquire a 1st Rd pick.
Telesco is no where near as good as the Ravens in overall impact and production of players they drafted.
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The world has seen a lot of insane things over the last few years…bizarre presidency, bizarre elections, pandemic, foreign conflict of invasion etc.
But there is still nothing more insane than people STILL defending Tom fucking Telesco.Tom Telesco’s Results in 9 years as Chargers GM:
- 69-74 record
- 0 division titles in 9 yrs as GM
- Worst record among all active GMs with same tenure
- 6th worst winning percentage among all active GMs overall
- 2 playoff wins despite elite QB all 9 yrs
- Team still has the same weaknesses (Oline and run defense) that it had when hired as GM in 2013
- Consistently puts together horrible depth, expects starters to never miss games
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Originally posted by jamrock View Post
Looks pretty similar actually. They just have a top 2-3 coach in the NFL
The Ravens front office is just way better. It's not even close. They have won 2 Superbowl with 2 different coaches under one of the best Ozzie as GM. And when he stepped down, they promoted from within, Eric Decosta in 2019 and he already has won 'executive of the year'. He is 33-10 as the GM and currently best record in AFC.
The Chargers should hire the Ravens director of personnel and scouting Joe Hortiz to be the GM next year if they want to find a way to improve the roster construction so they can consistently be a winning team year after year. Based on the resumes, I think Joe would know better than Tom about special teams construction and finding good line of scrimmage players.
Who has it better than us?
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Originally posted by Steve View PostKind of the chicken and the egg argument ...
Do GM find talent ......
or
... do coaches develop players ...
... or is it a combination of both?
If you fire TT right now, shouldn't the new GM be able to fire the coach and bring in his guy? Or do you make Staley the GM?
GM finding talent is where it all starts.
Coaches help develop players who want to be great.
Not sure what they can do with players that don't want to put in the work or can't get out of their own way. And not sure what they do with low ceiling talent. They can keep instructing and showing the proper technique, keys and assignment and leverages. But I'm still not sure how a coach develops Norton to block great edge rushers. I'm pretty sure they are coaching Slater up too and he seems to be doing really well on the left side. So I find it obvious that it starts with talent.
The more talent the GM finds the better the team should be. And then If a very talented team is playing sloppy football and failing to win enough games, then it's time to find a better coach.
Who has it better than us?
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