Defensive and Offensive Line Improvements?

[beachcomber]

I'm of the opinion that the best way to better the Chargers defense is the ability to mix our coverages. The Chargers have got to be able to play man coverage, to mix with existing Cover 3 shell scheme. This improves the pass rush.

I go CB in the 1st Round, QB in the 2nd, OT in the 3rd, DT in the 4th Center in the 5th.

who are your guys.... positions are one thing, but naming players is much more realistic, no ??

[Bolt4Knob]

who are your guys.... positions are one thing, but naming players is much more realistic, no ??

You know Comber - I am not up on the names quite frankly other than the Auburn player. But I do know that on the DL - they need a NT type to replace Mebane. I think Justin, Tillery and this new player -- and maybe adding a veteran on the minimum will shore up that area. OL -- again, depends on the scheme. Thomas is highly ranked from Auburn but depending on blocking style - maybe Wirfs is better. In Free Agency, Humphries for RT as a fall back from Conking. Glasnow might be solid at OG.

[dmac_bolt]

Danny Shelton is the immovable object type of NT. So I get the idea of him being the star run defender.

The problem with the image of Shelton is that it completely ignores what it takes to play good D. He is just not a great defender in todays game, and I am not talking about just his lack of pass rush. He is not a great run defender either. Good, but he got chewed up against the top notch run blockers. This was a down year for him, but he has never been great.

Shelton is gotten to the point where when he plays well, he gets low and can be immovable. However, he misses tackles and spends too much time catching blockers, instead of attacking them. He is a very passive, fire out late kind of player, and that let Ben Jones (Titans starting Center), to fire out and get under him, so he looked like he played the game on roller skates.

Shelton did improve his pass rushing the last couple of years. He is mostly just pushing weaker players back into the QB on 3 step and 5 quick, early down passes. Useful to a point, but it makes him a liability vs play action and any sort of moving QB, even just QB who can slide and step around him.

Shelton also adds nothing to being able to penetrate and get negative yards in the running game. Tenn did an outstanding job of penetrating and attacking on 2nd and 3rd downs when the Ravens were staying on schedule on 1st downs. They did it by penentrating and hitting the Ravens runners behind the line. If you want to stop a running game, that is a big part of how it is going to happen.

Too many 2 gap teams stuggle and/or wear down by the end of the season. I think that was part of NE problem vs Tenn. Their tired and just not explosive after a season of slamming into and taking on blocks. 1 Gap teams might not be as stout, but the players tend not to take quite the beating and are somewhat fresher. plus the supply of them is just so much better. Any player who can 2 gap, can also play in a 1 gap scheme, although maybe only in a gap control role.

It is also going to be a waste to add 2 NT, when we are going to be playing teams that mostly play 3 WR. Is it worth hoarding NT who won't even being on the field?

A big part of a potential improvement is to get our shitty LB off the field and get our faster DB back on. It improves our team speed and it makes us better vs the run and pass. More Dime.

I don’t believe the theory that modern defenses have no use for a traditional gap plugging NT. I will never believe this. Every time i see a dominating defense, they have this guy. LAC most definitely does not.

I recommend that they should.

[Bolt4Knob]

I don’t believe the theory that modern defenses have no use for a traditional gap plugging NT. I will never believe this. Every time i see a dominating defense, they have this guy. LAC most definitely does not.

I recommend that they should.

The best defense the Chargers had was when big old 76 - Madden loved the guy, was in the middle. You add a good to very good NT - maybe a Damon Harrison level in his prime - no maybe not Jamal Williams but not Mebane this past year either - with Bosa, Ingram, James, King - the defense would be much better. After OL - the interior of the Defense, NT and MLB are my top priorities. I can work around CB and WR one more year if you get OL, NT and MLB fixed.

[Topcat]

The best defense the Chargers had was when big old 76 - Madden loved the guy, was in the middle. You add a good to very good NT - maybe a Damon Harrison level in his prime - no maybe not Jamal Williams but not Mebane this past year either - with Bosa, Ingram, James, King - the defense would be much better. After OL - the interior of the Defense, NT and MLB are my top priorities. I can work around CB and WR one more year if you get OL, NT and MLB fixed.

I remember that well, Knob. What Madden really liked about Jamal was his ability to penetrate the pocket and disrupt plays...need someone like that...oh, and also to stuff the run...

[Bolt4Knob]

I remember that well, Knob. What Madden really liked about Jamal was his ability to penetrate the pocket and disrupt plays...need someone like that...oh, and also to stuff the run...

The thing is - watching the playoffs - teams like the Bills, Titans, Ravens, San Fran - all those teams had good OLs and DLs. I get Lamar J is deserving of the MVP but Rodgers and Mahomes are tremendous QBs - probably the two best in the league. But those teams proved: run the ball, play good defense, good special teams and with decent QB play -- you can win. But it starts up damn front. So, if Telesco misses that this offseason - I just will not understand why the hell he has a job.

Now, I am a best player available guy. But all things equal - I hope the draft, if they don't take QB - allows them to take DT or OT. Okudah might be a great CB prospect and I know Ruggs, Lamb and Jeudy are outstanding WR prospects - but without and OL or DL, this team will struggle

[powderblueboy]

I don’t believe the theory that modern defenses have no use for a traditional gap plugging NT. I will never believe this. Every time i see a dominating defense, they have this guy. LAC most definitely does not.

I recommend that they should.

Its nonsense. Some teams most definitely put space eating starters out there (320 +). New England & Baltimore seem to always carry at least 2 of them.
Those teams are just as capable as any D Telesco puts out there.

[ghost]

who are your guys.... positions are one thing, but naming players is much more realistic, no ??

1) CB Jeff Okudah - Ohio St
2) QB Jacob Eason - Wash.
3) OT Marcus Norman - So. Florida or Calvin Throckmorton - Oregon
4) DT Larrell Murchison - N.C. State or Neville Gallimore - Okla.
5) C Cesar Ruiz - Michigan or Nick Harris - Wash.

[wu-dai clan]

Its nonsense. Some teams most definitely put space eating starters out there (320 +). New England & Baltimore seem to always carry at least 2 of them.
Those teams are just as capable as any D Telesco puts out there.

LAC has not prioritized the acquisition of high end 0Tech defensive tackles. Betya Mebane's back too. Square. Maybe Sly. BAL, NE have fatties, yet could not stop TEN. Guess Earl was wrong.

Let's see how we do vs LVR, closest thing to relevant. Otherwise, the forward pass does the damage.

[Steve]

I'm not saying that there is no use to having a space eater, but they are not going to rebuild the line to get huge at the expense of speed and quickness.

The other thing to remember is the vast majority of big players get their asses kicked around and can't play worth shit. A lot of people ASSUME that big players are good/great run defenders and most are fat guys with no technique and can only play hard for a handful of plays.

Someone earlier (or in another thread) on was spouting the old Yuba theory, that bigger is better and that we need multiple run stuffing NT types.

Even NE and Baltimore, who have had more success with big, hulking guys than anyone else recently, subs off their DL on the majority of the time and plays most of their snaps with LB lining up to rush the QB, either off the line, or wide. There is a limit to how much capital we want to invest, be it FA spending, or draft picks, to get a NT who is simply not going to be on the field that much. Most of these huge, monster DT are only on the field for 20-30 plays, because they simply don't have the endurance to play well for more than that. We aren't going to put big, slow guys on the feild on long yardage situations, when we can put DL who can run and get after the QB.

IIF we can find a big, penetrating tackle like Ngata or Jamal, then that is a different story. A limited number of big guys have the ability to get in shape and have the skills to penetrate and be disruptive, even though they are huge. Not many, but a few. They are rare, but if we can get one, it would be worth a lot to get them on the field. But remember, Ngata is often remmebered as a NT, but he really played 3 technique for almost his entire career. They played 6'0" 320 lb Kelly Gregg at NT for most of Ngata's career. And Jamal was drafted in the supplemental draft as a 3 tech at 305 lbs. Neither was a big hulking NT coming out of college.

Some of the best run stuffing DL are actually smaller guys who simply play with more leverage. Others are top notch guys because they penetrate and blow up plays in the offensive backfield. To think it is just big players that are great run defenders shows pure ignorance.

If we want our run D to improve, one thing we need to rebuild is a solid D around it. There are 8 gaps, and all of them need to be defended. Having a huge NT covers 2 at best, so we still have a lot of other ground to defend, even if the NT can cover 2 gaps well, which as I pointed out earlier is more a fantasy than reality.

Our DL has been up and down, and like it or not, they are not going to move on from Jones and Tillery yet. Both have to play with better technique. Fortunately, Giff Smith is one of the better DL coaches in football, so there is a chance that can happen. We need to find a replacement for Mebane, and maybe a big guys is what we need. But it isn't the only thing we need.

LB corp is in shambles. Right now, I really don't think anyone is playing that well. White did not repeat his previous rookie year, and looked lost at times. Davis got a lot of playing time and lead the team in tackles, but really didn't do much beyond chase down offensive players who had already made plays. Tranquill flashed some ability, but needs to learn to read and react better, and step up vs the run. Perryman was banged up and rarely looked comfortable, plus he has always been weak in coverage. Brown still can't tackle. Nwosu and Egbule were probably the best players, but they are just asked to set the edge, so they really didn't play like LB that much. Bring back Tranquill, White, Nwosu and Egbule and then bring in a bunch of street FA to see if we can find someone, or wait till teams cut a LB.

We really missed James and Phillips. Since Bradley has been our DC, the D does it's best work when the dime package is on the field, and we have more speed (and better tacklers). Everyone always says we are too small and get run over, but that never really seems to happen, and it's the LB who seem to miss a lot of tackles.

[Topcat]

I'm not saying that there is no use to having a space eater, but they are not going to rebuild the line to get huge at the expense of speed and quickness.

The other thing to remember is the vast majority of big players get their asses kicked around and can't play worth shit. A lot of people ASSUME that big players are good/great run defenders and most are fat guys with no technique and can only play hard for a handful of plays.

Someone earlier (or in another thread) on was spouting the old Yuba theory, that bigger is better and that we need multiple run stuffing NT types.

Even NE and Baltimore, who have had more success with big, hulking guys than anyone else recently, subs off their DL on the majority of the time and plays most of their snaps with LB lining up to rush the QB, either off the line, or wide. There is a limit to how much capital we want to invest, be it FA spending, or draft picks, to get a NT who is simply not going to be on the field that much. Most of these huge, monster DT are only on the field for 20-30 plays, because they simply don't have the endurance to play well for more than that. We aren't going to put big, slow guys on the feild on long yardage situations, when we can put DL who can run and get after the QB.

IIF we can find a big, penetrating tackle like Ngata or Jamal, then that is a different story. A limited number of big guys have the ability to get in shape and have the skills to penetrate and be disruptive, even though they are huge. Not many, but a few. They are rare, but if we can get one, it would be worth a lot to get them on the field. But remember, Ngata is often remmebered as a NT, but he really played 3 technique for almost his entire career. They played 6'0" 320 lb Kelly Gregg at NT for most of Ngata's career. And Jamal was drafted in the supplemental draft as a 3 tech at 305 lbs. Neither was a big hulking NT coming out of college.

Some of the best run stuffing DL are actually smaller guys who simply play with more leverage. Others are top notch guys because they penetrate and blow up plays in the offensive backfield. To think it is just big players that are great run defenders shows pure ignorance.

If we want our run D to improve, one thing we need to rebuild is a solid D around it. There are 8 gaps, and all of them need to be defended. Having a huge NT covers 2 at best, so we still have a lot of other ground to defend, even if the NT can cover 2 gaps well, which as I pointed out earlier is more a fantasy than reality.

Our DL has been up and down, and like it or not, they are not going to move on from Jones and Tillery yet. Both have to play with better technique. Fortunately, Giff Smith is one of the better DL coaches in football, so there is a chance that can happen. We need to find a replacement for Mebane, and maybe a big guys is what we need. But it isn't the only thing we need.

LB corp is in shambles. Right now, I really don't think anyone is playing that well. White did not repeat his previous rookie year, and looked lost at times. Davis got a lot of playing time and lead the team in tackles, but really didn't do much beyond chase down offensive players who had already made plays. Tranquill flashed some ability, but needs to learn to read and react better, and step up vs the run. Perryman was banged up and rarely looked comfortable, plus he has always been weak in coverage. Brown still can't tackle. Nwosu and Egbule were probably the best players, but they are just asked to set the edge, so they really didn't play like LB that much. Bring back Tranquill, White, Nwosu and Egbule and then bring in a bunch of street FA to see if we can find someone, or wait till teams cut a LB.

We really missed James and Phillips. Since Bradley has been our DC, the D does it's best work when the dime package is on the field, and we have more speed (and better tacklers). Everyone always says we are too small and get run over, but that never really seems to happen, and it's the LB who seem to miss a lot of tackles.

Idea...bring in Simmons...