Justin Herbert - Bolts Franchise QB Official Discussion

[Steve]

One positive about the Dallas game was that Herbert put together a 90+ yard final drive which should have given them the lead.
Like to see that from quarterbacks.

Another way to look at it is that both the Chargers and the Cowboys have a lot of star caliber players on their teams. But Herbert, on a somewhat off day, was easily the best player on the field today, and it really wasn't close.

[UglyTruth]

Another way to look at it is that both the Chargers and the Cowboys have a lot of star caliber players on their teams. But Herbert, on a somewhat off day, was easily the best player on the field today, and it really wasn't close.

Better than the Dallas RBs? I think thats debatable after they combined for two TDs and 200+ rushing yards. Each has a case to the best player today.

If you meant best player for the Chargers then sure no disagreements there.

[powderblueboy]

FWIW, the 2006 NE wasn't a SB caliber team either. They got their asses kicked by Indy in the AFCG, they almost screwed it up by making a lot of early mistakes, but then came back from being down 21-3. In large part because of the WR thing. We lost the game vs NE because we played badly, and made a lot of mistakes. However, I think we would have had a very hard time winning the AFCCG Indy. They played excellent run D that playoff run and their offense was very well balanced. If there was a year, it was that year, but our passing game was kinda putrid outside of Gates and Sproles.

Jackson and Chambers were not very good WR in 2007. Jackson went on to be a good WR, but he was almost an extra TE, who you had to scheme open back then. He was mostly a blocker in 2006. Remember he caught less than 30 passes in a 16 game season, only starting a few games. Chambers was OK, but past his prime, and you really need more than 2 weapons to beat a playoff caliber D. Sproles was good, but 3rd down backs need other players to compliment them, and without LT or Gates, we just didn't have the weapons to open up the O like we did later. Turner was a fine power runner, but not good enough to carry the team without a passing game, and he never added anything to the passing game even in his prime.

The 2009 team was a good defense in the sense that they played assignment free football, but the complete lack of pass rush prevented us from getting a pretty poor pass blocking OL for the Jets. They held the ball, kept our offense off the field and they kept running the ball against us over and over till the D wore down. But Sanchez kept converting 1st downs and keeping us backed up in our end of the field.

In 2006 post season:
Indy won in the closing moments of the AFC Championship game, if my memory serves me. They came back from a big deficit.
New England was spent by their grind it out win in San Diego, the week before, and ran out of gas. That' what the Pats said.
Chargers could have beaten Indy - no doubt.

Anyone of those teams: Indy, New England, San Diego would have handled that Bears team.

IN 2007 post season
Tuner and sproles complemented one and another;
Chambers had a typical prime year in 2007; he went downhill fast in 2008 when his private life seemed to derail his career.
Jackson really started to come into his own during the 2007 playoffs: he had 300+ receiving yards.

In 2009 against the Jets, the Charger offense couldn't stay on the field in the 2nd half. Charger D got them a turnover, and the offense coughed it right back.
The Charger D only gave up 3 points in almost 3 quarters before Rivers threw the big interception deep in their own territory near the endzone. It was Rivers worst playoff game by far. Jets D came out and changed things up with their coverage in the 2nd half - i can't remember what exactly they did. Caught Norv Turner with his pants down. The D wore down somewhere in the middle of the fourth quarter.
Antonio Garay played in that game - when healthy he was very good, and Luis Castillo was greatly underappreciated. Shaun Phillips was a solid pass rusher - they had some players.

[Boltjolt]

Herbert is not going to be the thing holding the team back from winning a SB. Same as with Rivers, who was easily good enough to win a SB. You can say the same thing about Hadl, Stan and Fouts. All were SB or HOF QB, but that alone is not enough to win it.

It takes a whole team, and Rivers never had a team good enough to win one. Let's hope will can fill the holes around him and get Herbert and the team a win.

RT is a hole in the roster, but the OL needs to get better at working together. The run blocking really shows that they are not doing a great job of working as a single unit. Too much penetration, and unblocked guys blowing up plays in the backfield. Both weeks, we have shown some good to mix in with the bad.

Defense has done well keeping teams out of the end zone, but they are still giving up a lot of chunk plays with mental mistakes. THey need to play with a lot more focus on their technique. Whether it is the DL allowing the RB to run through holes with no defender to stop them, or the DB not being outside on swing passes, we need to make sure the D is doing their jobs on every play at a high level. Just getting lined up is not enough.

Yes he did, he just unfortunately had to play the AFCCG with a torn ACL.

[Steve]

In 2006 post season:
Indy won in the closing moments of the AFC Championship game, if my memory serves me. They came back from a big deficit.
New England was spent by their grind it out win in San Diego, the week before, and ran out of gas. That' what the Pats said.
Chargers could have beaten Indy - no doubt.

Anyone of those teams: Indy, New England, San Diego would have handled that Bears team.

IN 2007 post season
Tuner and sproles complemented one and another;
Chambers had a typical prime year in 2007; he went downhill fast in 2008 when his private life seemed to derail his career.
Jackson really started to come into his own during the 2007 playoffs: he had 300+ receiving yards.

In 2009 against the Jets, the Charger offense couldn't stay on the field in the 2nd half. Charger D got them a turnover, and the offense coughed it right back.
The Charger D only gave up 3 points in almost 3 quarters before Rivers threw the big interception deep in their own territory near the endzone. It was Rivers worst playoff game by far. Jets D came out and changed things up with their coverage in the 2nd half - i can't remember what exactly they did. Caught Norv Turner with his pants down. The D wore down somewhere in the middle of the fourth quarter.
Antonio Garay played in that game - when healthy he was very good, and Luis Castillo was greatly underappreciated. Shaun Phillips was a solid pass rusher - they had some players.

Manning made some big mistakes early that set up NE to get the big lead, then blew it to allow the Colts to come back from 18 points down to win. Their offense never really got much going in the open field in either half, and they couldn't move the ball at all once they fell behind. The 2nd half was all Indy.

The Jets kept us pinned deep in our own territory for most of the game. They didn't get most of their rushing yards till later in the game, and it was Sanchez continuing to get 1st downs that allowed their ST to keep us pinned. If we had been able to get the Jets off the field on 3 and out's, then given the few 1st downs we got, we probably would have won off of field goals. But backed up in our own end, we would get some 1st downs, then punt and pin the Jets, only to let them dig their way out and pin us again. Sanchez converted a bunch of 3rd downs, and we couldn't get anyone near him.

[Steve]

Yes he did, he just unfortunately had to play the AFCCG with a torn ACL.

That may be, but I have re-watched that game a number of times, and there was no one open. Despite the knee, I thought Rivers played pretty well, but he needed some help from the players around him and he got none. If he had his weapons .... The only dynamic part of our offense back then was LT and Gates, and they were neutralized by injuries. But even then, 1 RB and 1 receiver is not usually not enough to be a championship caliber offense. It usually takes a 3rd major weapon, since defenses can double cover 2 offensive player (7 coverage, 4 occupied in double coverage, 3 coverage vs the other 3 offensive skill players).

VJ was not much of a WR. If people remember, a lot of people were calling for his head when he got hurt in PS the following season vs GB, because he was a waste of a 3rd round pick up to that point. They were obviously wrong, but it wasn't clear at that point.

[jamrock]

One positive about the Dallas game was that Herbert put together a 90+ yard final drive which should have given them the lead.
Like to see that from quarterbacks.

Solid final drive against WFT and solid final drive against Dallas. Wish the Td counted. Would have made it interesting if Dallas had to score a TD rather than FG to win

[Steve]

Better than the Dallas RBs? I think thats debatable after they combined for two TDs and 200+ rushing yards. Each has a case to the best player today.

If you meant best player for the Chargers then sure no disagreements there.

No, best player period.

The Cowboys players were not doing anything all that special. If they had run over us, then I would probably agree, but they didn't. They ran through some open holes, that were mental mistakes by our DL slanting into the wrong holes that got the whole LB/S out of position. They got what was there and played well, but not elite play.

Herbert was making big throws into really tight windows all around the field. He had some bad plays, but he was carrying our offense play after play, and again, moved us up and down the field, with a pretty substandard OL.

[Steve]

In 2006, we didn’t really need top notch WR because LT and Turner were so good at running the ball. If we had just kept running the ball and doing PA, we would have beaten the Pats. Gates and LT were completely healthy in 2006.

I think the D was good enough in 2009. Our weakness that year was inconsistent rushing offense since LT was on his last legs.

2018 OL was actually solid IMO. We just had no LBs due to injuries.

I think the OL in 2018 overachieved, but they weren't that good. They just played way, way better than they had up till then, just not as well as we need an OL to play.

[21&500]

Just a thought in response to a lot of complaints I'm reading over the bad calls, and I'm not being critical, I'm just saying, some teams historically get shafted while others get carried.

Herbert represents our chance to be one of the NFLs elite franchises AND favored
not just winning with elite qb play, but winning by being FAVORED as well.
Anyone remember New England BEFORE tom and bill?
Neither do I. Point is, they were the doormats of the NFL before being the best and part of that is getting the BS calls to go their way (ie human bias.)
we charger fans have been on the wrong end of those calls since before I was a twinkle in my daddys eye
and with Herbert, we have a chance to turn it all around

[like54ninjas]

[foreigner]

Another way to look at it is that both the Chargers and the Cowboys have a lot of star caliber players on their teams. But Herbert, on a somewhat off day, was easily the best player on the field today, and it really wasn't close.

Herbert is a damn huge shining star.... its overwhelming the talent of that kid. I cry a lot but the missing link is TT.... that is our weak point right now.