Justin Herbert - Bolts Franchise QB Official Discussion

[DerwinBosa]

I had Lawrence as the best QB prospect since at least John Elway and he did underperform and was also adversely impacted by a bad situation in Jacksonville with a team with no talent and a dysfunctional coaching staff.

He still has more potential than any of the QBs from the 2021 draft class, but it is unrealized potential so far. He is really going to have to improve to get to where Herbert is as Herbert is miles ahead of him.

Just out of curiosity, how did you determine that Trevor Lawrence was the best quarterback prospect since John Elway? What kind of evaluations do you run through these prospects to determine that Lawrence was better than Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, or other first overall picks such as Troy Aikman, Cam Newton, and Carson Palmer? Do you make such statements about players at other positions--like "I had Myles Garrett as the best defensive end prospect since Bruce Smith"?

[DerwinBosa]

If we’re wishing for players that weren’t on the board with that pick I’ll take Wirfs every time.

I was just making a crack at myself because, as badly as I wanted Simmons at #6 in 2020, I wouldn't take him in the top 20 now.

[Maniaque 6]

I was just making a crack at myself because, as badly as I wanted Simmons at #6 in 2020, I wouldn't take him in the top 20 now.

That's exactly what I think !

[Bearded14YourPleasure]

I was just making a crack at myself because, as badly as I wanted Simmons at #6 in 2020, I wouldn't take him in the top 20 now.

But… I still want Wirfs….

[Guest]

How do you know Telesco would have screwed it up? You have inside information that he would have drafted Tua ahead of Herbert?

I said that if Telesco had the choice of all 3 of the top QBs, I think he would have screwed it up. I think he would have taken Burrow. I can't imagine what would have happened to the Ball Holder with our 2020 OL. Mangled for life comes to mind.

[Guest]

I was just making a crack at myself because, as badly as I wanted Simmons at #6 in 2020, I wouldn't take him in the top 20 now.

I am right there with you. It obviously turned out much better that we took Herbert, but at the time, Herbert was only consensus ranked #9 overall and that includes the usual QB overvaluation. Simmons was ranked #4 overall, which shows that most pundits expected big things from him in the NFL.

That's why I am not sweating that I had the #4 consensus ranked player rated ahead of the #9 consensus ranked player. Nobody knew that Herbert was going to end up the best of them all.

[Guest]

Just out of curiosity, how did you determine that Trevor Lawrence was the best quarterback prospect since John Elway? What kind of evaluations do you run through these prospects to determine that Lawrence was better than Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, or other first overall picks such as Troy Aikman, Cam Newton, and Carson Palmer? Do you make such statements about players at other positions--like "I had Myles Garrett as the best defensive end prospect since Bruce Smith"?

I watched Lawrence play, read about him, and studied him. I thought his arm strength, arm talent, and running ability combined to form a unique skillset that gave him a chance to be the best QB prospect entering the league since Elway. I never thought Luck was that great. He was certainly inaccurate in the NFL. Newton was never a great passer. Aikman was never a great anything (truly strange that you mentioned him). Palmer had some arm talent, but was never a good running QB. Lawrence was better than Palmer at both passing and running. Lawrence was physically superior to Manning.

Just about everyone believed that Lawrence was the best QB prospect since at least Andrew Luck, so it is not like others did not also have a high opinion of him entering the league. He certainly would have been the #1 overall pick in 2019 and 2020 had he been draft eligible in those seasons. And I thought the majority of pundits had actually understated Lawrence's potential.

Of course, being a great prospect does not guarantee that the QB will be the best or even a good QB. Elway himself was not even the best QB in his own draft class and Manning, Elway, Luck and Aikman struggled as rookies. Lawrence struggled as a rookie in a bad situation as well.

I do not recall seeing a non-QB that I considered similarly to Lawrence in terms of his potential impact at the NFL level.

It remains to be seen if Lawrence will live up to his potential.

[Boltjolt]

I was just making a crack at myself because, as badly as I wanted Simmons at #6 in 2020, I wouldn't take him in the top 20 now.

Simmons quietly had a good season. He had 105 tackles, an INT and 4 forced fumbles. Not like he hasn't been good, he just hasn't been Herbert good.

He only started 7 games as a rookie.

[dmac_bolt]

I had Lawrence as the best QB prospect since at least John Elway and he did underperform and was also adversely impacted by a bad situation in Jacksonville with a team with no talent and a dysfunctional coaching staff.

He still has more potential than any of the QBs from the 2021 draft class, but it is unrealized potential so far. He is really going to have to improve to get to where Herbert is as Herbert is miles ahead of him.

Folks forget that Elway was horrible his first year. 47% completion, 7 TD, 14 INT. He was horrible for several years, I remember vividly how he would single handed lose the games to the Chargers in the clutch.

Folks that already count Lawrence out after one year in the shit show of Urban Meyer are foolish. Lawrence has too much talent to tag him as a failure already imo. As always - history will teach us all eventually.

[Boltjolt]

Folks forget that Elway was horrible his first year. 47% completion, 7 TD, 14 INT. He was horrible for several years, I remember vividly how he would single handed lose the games to the Chargers in the clutch.

Folks that already count Lawrence out after one year in the shit show of Urban Meyer are foolish. Lawrence has too much talent to tag him as a failure already imo. As always - history will teach us all eventually.

I think Peyton is miles better than Elway. Elway just had a strong arm.

I'm not counting out Lawrence but I don't and never did see him as tje next best thing. Just another good QB in the draft that id pick if we needed one.

Imo he isn't going to be in Herbert and Mahomes league but certainly should be better this season.

[DerwinBosa]

Simmons quietly had a good season. He had 105 tackles, an INT and 4 forced fumbles. Not like he hasn't been good, he just hasn't been Herbert good.

He only started 7 games as a rookie.

Yeah. I was envisioning him becoming our Derrick Brooks to team up with Bosa and Derwin. He still has a chance to be that great, but I doubt it. We'll see.

As with any draft, players who were picked after the first round wouldn't last beyond the top ten if we were to re-do. That's why I wouldn't take Simmons in the top 20 now. Jonathan Taylor would be a top ten pick now. Our very own Kenneth Murray probably at the very earliest would be selected in the fourth round.

With Derrick Brown I knew Tillery was a bust about halfway through his rookie year, and I wanted Bosa to get more help from the interior. Brown struggled a little bit last year, though.

As much as I'm frustrated with Telesco, it's a good thing I'm not the general manager.

[DerwinBosa]

I watched Lawrence play, read about him, and studied him. I thought his arm strength, arm talent, and running ability combined to form a unique skillset that gave him a chance to be the best QB prospect entering the league since Elway. I never thought Luck was that great. He was certainly inaccurate in the NFL. Newton was never a great passer. Aikman was never a great anything (truly strange that you mentioned him). Palmer had some arm talent, but was never a good running QB. Lawrence was better than Palmer at both passing and running. Lawrence was physically superior to Manning.

Just about everyone believed that Lawrence was the best QB prospect since at least Andrew Luck, so it is not like others did not also have a high opinion of him entering the league. He certainly would have been the #1 overall pick in 2019 and 2020 had he been draft eligible in those seasons. And I thought the majority of pundits had actually understated Lawrence's potential.

Of course, being a great prospect does not guarantee that the QB will be the best or even a good QB. Elway himself was not even the best QB in his own draft class and Manning, Elway, Luck and Aikman struggled as rookies. Lawrence struggled as a rookie in a bad situation as well.

I do not recall seeing a non-QB that I considered similarly to Lawrence in terms of his potential impact at the NFL level.

It remains to be seen if Lawrence will live up to his potential.

I wasn't saying that Aikman, Newton, and Palmer were great. I was just curious if you actually compared Lawrence to every single quarterback selected #1 overall since John Elway--because I find it quite bold when someone who doesn't scout for a living says that a particular quarterback is ranked as the best to come out of college in almost 40 years. Personally I thought DeShaun Watson was better than Lawrence ever was at Clemson.