Justin Herbert - Bolts Franchise QB Official Discussion

[FoutsFan]

Hebert is going to have to learn to run plays from under center, because there is where you develop footwork. Even if you take the snap from the C in the shotgun, or pistol, you still have to get your body into position to throw. Hebert has poor timing on many throws because his footwork SUCKS. Actually, more inconsistent than sucks, but it is not where it needs to be.

Want to see good footwork, watch Burrows and Tua. They take their drops, and their bodies are ready to get the ball out.

Hebert is still shifting around in the pocket, then the ball comes out off schedule, because his body has to shift around to get it to go where he wants. And this is in a college game, where he really isn't getting pressured like he will be in the NFL. Everything will happen faster and he will have less time to think than he did in college.

As far as playing under center, teams still do that because there are a lot of running plays that simply don't work if you are in shotgun. Too many times the RB is running parallel to the line, so penetrating DL stop him cold.

In the I Formation, or an Ace backfield, the RB can attack ANY hole if the blocking is there. If a DL penetrates, it takes away some of the options, but not all of them. The Pistol is the modern half way adaptation to allow shotgun teams to still use the Ace/I formation running game. You can still hit all the holes, run counters, etc. There are some plays that don't work due to timing, but most still do.

Hebert is going to have to run plays from the pistol, and that is all there is to it. Put on the big boy pants, this is the NFL. AL is a fan of running the ball and attack across the formation, so he is going to have to do it.

Now, for the Oregon crowd, no one is suggesting that we run the Pistol offense that Kapernick and crowd made so popular in college ball. That is the old college Veer offense with some new window dressing (FWIW, that was the type of offense LT ran at TCU, only pre-pistol days). No one has used that offense in pro ball that I am aware of. Every NFL team uses a pistol alignment, at least in practice, because teams that still like the "I" running game and play action off that backfield action. But the beauty of the pistol is that you can still run a huge part of traditional NFL plays from the pistol.

Herbert has a little hitch or pop when he throws often. It is part of his poor footwork and causes his passes to be off target badly. I hope we get a really good QB coach that can break him down and build him back up technically sound.

[chargeroo]

I know this may be an unpopular take but I cannot get into the Bolts QB situation because the story of Rivers isn't over. I cannot move on because he is still playing, and I can't understand how fans who once loved him can just move on already when the body isn't cold yet.

I for one am pretty sure Rivers is going to play at an MVP level with the Colts this year and it pains me that T.T. killed free agency and the draft when Phil's gone, where were these chess moves when P.R. was here?!

This will stir some feathers here but I feel Rivers will play at least 3 more years and that my gut is telling me that 2022 Rivers will be playing better than 2022 Herbert which kills me that we didn't tag him or work out a team friendly deal.

I know Herbert may be a bust, or mediocre like a Ryan Fitzpatrick or even great like Phil but to get to the level we already had, why fix something that isn't broken? (the line was broke, not Phil) but perhaps Phil and Lynn's relationship and the 16 road games is what was broke and maybe Phil didn't want to be back.

I have grown to love Phil more a little more than the Chargers, it's unhealthy to have to root for both a player on a different team and a team without my QB.

This is painful.

I hated when Alworth went to Dallas but it was easy to stay a fan of the Bolts because there were still many players on the roster that I liked. When the Cowboys won the SB (and Lance scored a TD) I was as happy for him as I would have been if he was still a Charger.
You cheer for a team first, individuals on the team second.

Regarding the improvement on the OL - it was only possible because of not having the high salary of franchise QB on the books anymore.

[AsaFLBoltfan]

I know this may be an unpopular take but I cannot get into the Bolts QB situation because the story of Rivers isn't over. I cannot move on because he is still playing, and I can't understand how fans who once loved him can just move on already when the body isn't cold yet.

I for one am pretty sure Rivers is going to play at an MVP level with the Colts this year and it pains me that T.T. killed free agency and the draft when Phil's gone, where were these chess moves when P.R. was here?!

This will stir some feathers here but I feel Rivers will play at least 3 more years and that my gut is telling me that 2022 Rivers will be playing better than 2022 Herbert which kills me that we didn't tag him or work out a team friendly deal.

I know Herbert may be a bust, or mediocre like a Ryan Fitzpatrick or even great like Phil but to get to the level we already had, why fix something that isn't broken? (the line was broke, not Phil) but perhaps Phil and Lynn's relationship and the 16 road games is what was broke and maybe Phil didn't want to be back.

I have grown to love Phil more a little more than the Chargers, it's unhealthy to have to root for both a player on a different team and a team without my QB.

This is painful.

It kills me to know PR is playing somewhere else and now that everyone is dying for JH to sit for a year (or 2). I wish it was 17 taking the snaps till the kid is ready.

[Xenos]

I know this may be an unpopular take but I cannot get into the Bolts QB situation because the story of Rivers isn't over. I cannot move on because he is still playing, and I can't understand how fans who once loved him can just move on already when the body isn't cold yet.

I for one am pretty sure Rivers is going to play at an MVP level with the Colts this year and it pains me that T.T. killed free agency and the draft when Phil's gone, where were these chess moves when P.R. was here?!

This will stir some feathers here but I feel Rivers will play at least 3 more years and that my gut is telling me that 2022 Rivers will be playing better than 2022 Herbert which kills me that we didn't tag him or work out a team friendly deal.

I know Herbert may be a bust, or mediocre like a Ryan Fitzpatrick or even great like Phil but to get to the level we already had, why fix something that isn't broken? (the line was broke, not Phil) but perhaps Phil and Lynn's relationship and the 16 road games is what was broke and maybe Phil didn't want to be back.

I have grown to love Phil more a little more than the Chargers, it's unhealthy to have to root for both a player on a different team and a team without my QB.

This is painful.

We wouldn't have been able to make the same moves unless Phil took a massive pay cut. And I miss Phil as much as anyone but you have to use the right metaphor. It's a divorce that is good for the kids. Phil goes to a place that has the OL in place and an offensive HC that fits him in Reich. This is as close to Phil going to NO with Payton instead of Brees.

The Chargers on the other hand can move on and get more pieces to help them since they have a QB on a rookie deal.

[SYB]

Calling me names is one think but can you please not use racist Phrases? I’m sure fleet doesn’t appreciate racist phrases used on his board.

Oh FFS.. :sigh:

And to be clear, I do didn't call YOU a name. I threw out a blanket statement, that you stepped up and tried to own

[glutton4Bolts]

I'll just put this here and let all my bros and sis read between the lines.

Before the draft Michael Irvin said the Chargers MUST draft a QB, even with Tyrod on board.
His thinking is that we cannot allow ourselves to go from PR to Tyrod + no backup plan. No. Never. Not gonna do that.

I am at peace now with Herbert/Murray no #71, over Simmons/Love no #71.
And #71 could have been Josh Jones to keep the Trenchers happy.

Earlier today, I caught myself.
I have to stop calling the Golden Dome haters and Trenchers whiney bitches.
We all brought it this draft season.
There is tremendous value in diversity.
Diversity of opinion.
Diversity of ethnicity.
Peace. Out.

Wait...did you see our Fullbacks ?
We've got Jim Nabors and Holly from Farmerville Louisiana.
Salt and Peppa.
AL. TT
We got this.
That's all I got.

I never wanted Love... so I was thinking the comparison could be:

Herbert + Murray (no #71)
Simmons + Hurts + #71

At any rate, for every negative media source on Herbert there is at least one that is positive. I like this one from CBS... which ranks Herbert as the 2nd best QB in the draft:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2020-nfl-draft-ranking-the-top-eight-qb-picks-from-joe-burrow-to-tua-tagovailoa-to-jalen-hurts/

[like54ninjas]

HOW L.A. SETTLED ON HERBERT

As part of this weird new world, the Chargers would give their quarterback interview subjects assignments to work through ahead of their Zoom meetings. They’d have a couple formations, a half-dozen pass patterns, some motions and a bunch of jargon to learn. In all, it was three-and-a-half pages, and a pretty boilerplate pre-draft exercise, even if it would come in a different form in any other year.

About three weeks ago, Oregon quarterback Justin Herbert went into his summit with the Chargers’ coaches confident that he had the work down. And then, a formation popped on the screen and a coach asked, “What if we line up in this?” Herbert responded, “I didn’t see that in there.” It was his only miss in the hour-long meeting, and at the end, he told the coaches to hold on, and grabbed the handout. It was in there, and Herbert got angry with himself.
I can’t believe I missed that.

“It wasn’t a big deal, but it was to him. He brought it up twice,” Chargers coach Anthony Lynn said late Saturday afternoon. “And it was something we’d forgotten about. So we know he’s a very bright young man, and he’s accountable. It’s the way he’s wired.”

The Chargers didn’t take Herbert with the sixth overall pick—and position him as the long-term successor to Philip Rivers—because he took ownership of an oversight in an internet meeting some night earlier this month. But that moment sure didn’t hurt, particularly when the biggest questions on this 22-year-old born and raised in his college town of Eugene, Ore., are centered on his personality, and whether he’s sheltered and introverted or not.

A lot of the rest, as Lynn and the Chargers saw it, was there.

So getting to know Herbert was important, and the team did everything it could to get there with him. It involved GM Tom Telesco, cross-check scout Justin Sheridan, college scouting director Kevin Kelly and West Coast area scout Chris Hobbs, as well as Lynn, offensive coordinator Shane Steichen and senior coaching assistant Rip Scherer. And it went plenty deep.

Telesco saw Herbert twice live in 2019—against USC and in the Rose Bowl—which gave him a full appreciation for the quarterback’s size and how he interacts with coaches and teammates. He also did recon going all the way back to Herbert’s teenage years, when Telesco’s close friend Brian Polian was Nevada’s coach and offered Herbert a full scholarship on the spot after watching him practice once.
And so a lot of this, for L.A., came back to who Herbert was. Some of that came in meetings, like the one described above. More of it was on tape, for everyone to see.

“I watched how he played the game, and how his teammates responded to him on the football field and I said, ‘This is not a problem,’” Lynn said. “I don’t know why it would be. Is a quarterback supposed to be loud? There’s a time for him to be loud, there’s a time for him to not be loud. You don’t have to be loud to be a great leader. You don’t have to be outspoken to be a great leader.”

As for the tape, Lynn said over time spent watching, “He just grew on me.” The coach liked the ability, and how he extended plays, but most of all, he loved the moments that tied the person and player together. One came late in a game when Herbert lowered his shoulder into a defender and rode him into the end zone. It showed Herbert the athlete, for sure. But it also clarified Herbert the teammate.

It also illustrated Herbert the competitor, the guy who took every chance—be it in the Rose Bowl or the Senior Bowl, the combine or his pro day—to throw, and show the NFL what he had, which the Chargers loved.

“He would lay it on the line for his teammates,” Lynn said. “He took off and, I mean, he didn’t dodge or lay down—now, I’m gonna say to him, Get your ass down—but he lowers his shoulder, runs through the guy and falls in the end zone. And I thought, That’s a quarterback that’s putting it on the line for his team. They needed that touchdown, he got that touchdown. I started to see stuff like that, I thought, This guy, he’s made of the right stuff.”
That stuff, as Lynn sees it, is what you can’t teach. And as for the stuff you can, the Chargers, obviously, have confidence that Herbert’s diligence and aptitude will get him where he needs to go. Otherwise, they wouldn’t have taken him where they did, a spot at which, I’m told, Telesco and Lynn were comfortable taking either Herbert or Tagovailoa.

What’s more, Lynn doesn’t see any rush to throw Herbert out there right away. If he needs time, he’ll get it. If he doesn’t, and he beats out Tyrod Taylor, he’ll play.

“We’re going into this thing: Day 1, Tyrod Taylor’s going to be starting it off,” Lynn said. “He’s earned that right. His teammates respect the hell out of him, he’s a leader on this football team. Our young quarterback’s gonna learn a lot from Tyrod Taylor. Tyrod Taylor’s one of the most respected players on our team, and he doesn’t say a whole lot either. …

“[But] it’s a competition, bro. There’s a competition at every position, not just this one. I can’t just say Tyrod’s gonna be the starting quarterback for the whole year if this young man goes in there and wins the job.”

Given the circumstances, we probably won’t know for quite some time whether or not Herbert can pull it off. But safe to say the Chargers think whatever they throw this kid’s way, he’ll be able to handle it.

[Antonio’s Gates]

Herbert got a lot of undeserved shit but has everything you would want in a franchise QB. Oregon is kinda my team in cfb (I say kinda because I’m not a hardcore cfb fan) and I think he’s a lot closer to Wentz than he is to Gabbert. Oregon had no real weapons around him and favored an offense that didn’t really show off Herberts talents. There’s not a throw he can’t make. He was a little inconsistent with his accuracy but the draft is all about projection, and Herbert has just as much talent as the QBs taken ahead of him. I also think he’ll be more reliable than Tua as durability issues in college don’t typically disappear playing against bigger and faster dudes in the NFL.

[Fleet]

[Boltjolt]

It kills me to know PR is playing somewhere else and now that everyone is dying for JH to sit for a year (or 2). I wish it was 17 taking the snaps till the kid is ready.

I wouldnt say we are dying for Herbert to sit. Just dont see a reason to rush him. He very well could start at some point but who knows? If he does great, if he doesnt...great. I dont see a down side to either.

I dont think we are contenders this year but who knows. Maybe Tyrod has his best season and we have minimul injuries for a change. Melvin plays his best season, Adderley stays healthy and shows us why we picked him. Mike Williams takes his game to another level, KJ Hill steps right in and has ROY type season, and Pouncey revives himself and Pipkins steps up to another level nobody was expecting. Our running game is top 5 in the league.


Whats the odds all this happens at once? lol

[like54ninjas]

Excellent breakdown of NFL QB play and the top 2020 prospects skillset and college situations.

[AsaFLBoltfan]

I wouldnt say we are dying for Herbert to sit. Just dont see a reason to rush him. He every well could start at some point but who knows? If he does great, if he doesnt...great. I dont see a down side to either.

I dont think we are contenders this year but who knows. Maybe Tyrod has his best season and we have minimul injuries for a change. Melvin plays his best season, Adderley stays healthy and shows us why we picked him. Mike Williams takes his game to another level, KJ Hill steps right in and has ROY type season, and Pouncey revives himself and Pipkins steps up to another level nobody was expecting. Our running game is top 5 in the league.


Whats the odds all this happens at once? lol

The downside is exactly what your post says, I think we’re wildcard contenders at best this season. So why not play him if not Wk1, at least half the season? You can only improve so much in practice, game reps either gets you where you need to be or it you don’t “have” it. I can’t see where in anyone’s mind it wouldn’t be better for him to have some starts under his belt going into 2021?