Justin Herbert - Bolts Franchise QB Official Discussion

[21&500]

Wounded? lol

IR with a designation to return... never.

[FoutsFan]

This

people complain its all short passes and no bombs. It will just make Herb that much better

Like when Lew Alcindor was so pissed when college outlawed the slam dunk. John Wooden told him it was the best thing that could have happened to him. He went on to develop the sky hook and be the number one scoring player all time in the NBA.

[FoutsFan]

Wounded? lol

scratch.jpg

[Xenos]

A little snippet on Herbert’s progress:

https://theathletic.com/3051453/2022/01/04/chargers-final-thoughts-playoff-scenarios-justin-herberts-growth-austin-ekeler-exceeds-expectations/

9. Herbert’s decision-making Sunday really jumped out to me. We all see his pure talent. But as he nears the end of his second season, Herbert’s biggest improvement has come in his processing. He is now elite in that area. Last season, Anthony Lynn, Shane Steichen, Pep Hamilton and the Chargers offensive staff eased Herbert’s transition with a lot of half-field reads. That helped Herbert play faster, and it was a big part of his rookie success. I still do not think Lynn, Steichen and Hamilton get enough credit for that stage of Herbert’s development. Those training wheels have never been a part of Staley’s plan for Herbert this season, though. They dumped the full playbook on him in the spring. Staley and OC Joe Lombardi held nothing back. Herbert told me in August that, initially, it felt like he was “drowning.” But he was up for the challenge, and it is paying dividends now. Herbert got to his fifth read on the red-zone touchdown to Allen on Sunday, moving left to right in his progression before finding Allen on an inside-breaking whip route. Herbert was willing to hit his check down early and often in the game. He was taking what the Denver defense was giving him. And when the shots opened up downfield — like on the record-breaking touchdown to Mike Williams — Herbert delivered. To operate that way against one of the best defensive coaches in football is a testament to his development. He struggled against some of those elite defensive coaches, like Bill Belichick, Mike Zimmer and Vic Fangio, earlier in the season. Herbert is growing and improving as a processor and decision-maker.

10. Herbert has been pressured on 177 of his 672 dropbacks this season, according to PFF. He has made just two turnover-worthy throws on those 177 dropbacks. That is a 1 percent turnover-worthy-play rate when under pressure — best in the league among qualified quarterbacks. Teddy Bridgewater is in second. His turnover-worthy-play rate when under pressure is 3.2 percent. Aaron Rodgers is at 4 percent. Tom Brady is at 3.9 percent. Herbert is a “premium decision-maker,” as Staley put it last week.

[Velo]

A little snippet on Herbert’s progress:

https://theathletic.com/3051453/2022/01/04/chargers-final-thoughts-playoff-scenarios-justin-herberts-growth-austin-ekeler-exceeds-expectations/

I agree that Steichen, at least, does not get enough credit for helping Herbert achieve what he did as a rookie. And we all know Hamilton's role - he was probably the most influential. Which is why I still don't understand why a HC coming in would not want to retain both Steichen and Hamilton and try hard to convince them to stay. I get that new coach wants to hire his own people. But when an OC and QB coach achieve record-breaking success with a rookie QB, I think you want to retain that and keep it going. Herb admitting learning a new system was overwhelming makes me wonder how many games the Chargers lost this season due to the steep learning curve they subjected Herbert to, and how many more games the Chargers could have won this season if Steichen and Hamilton were retained and Herbert to grow in a second season under the same system he set record with as a rookie. This also would have allowed Staley to focus more on the defense, and not worry about the offense as much. Better minds than mine make these decisions, I guess, but I don't always understand them.

[Boltjolt]

I agree that Steichen, at least, does not get enough credit for helping Herbert achieve what he did as a rookie. And we all know Hamilton's role - he was probably the most influential. Which is why I still don't understand why a HC coming in would not want to retain both Steichen and Hamilton and try hard to convince them to stay. I get that new coach wants to hire his own people. But when an OC and QB coach achieve record-breaking success with a rookie QB, I think you want to retain that and keep it going. Herb admitting learning a new system was overwhelming makes me wonder how many games the Chargers lost this season due to the steep learning curve they subjected Herbert to, and how many more games the Chargers could have won this season if Steichen and Hamilton were retained and Herbert to grow in a second season under the same system he set record with as a rookie. This also would have allowed Staley to focus more on the defense, and not worry about the offense as much. Better minds than mine make these decisions, I guess, but I don't always understand them.

Staley wanted to run Lombardi's/Saints type offense. Hamilton I can see but it's been fine

Herbert is a record setter this year as well without Steichen and Hamilton so imo it's a moot point to keep bringing it up. It's worked out.

[Xenos]

I agree that Steichen, at least, does not get enough credit for helping Herbert achieve what he did as a rookie. And we all know Hamilton's role - he was probably the most influential. Which is why I still don't understand why a HC coming in would not want to retain both Steichen and Hamilton and try hard to convince them to stay. I get that new coach wants to hire his own people. But when an OC and QB coach achieve record-breaking success with a rookie QB, I think you want to retain that and keep it going. Herb admitting learning a new system was overwhelming makes me wonder how many games the Chargers lost this season due to the steep learning curve they subjected Herbert to, and how many more games the Chargers could have won this season if Steichen and Hamilton were retained and Herbert to grow in a second season under the same system he set record with as a rookie. This also would have allowed Staley to focus more on the defense, and not worry about the offense as much. Better minds than mine make these decisions, I guess, but I don't always understand them.

Both McCoy and Lynn retained prior coaches when they became HCs (Pagano and Whiz respectively). And it’s not like those moves worked out in the long term. I can understand the need for some continuity, but at the end of the day a HC should get to decide what works best for him and the team. Even though I would have liked to personally keep Hamilton and Campbell, and hired an OC that expanded the Shanahan scheme even more for Herbert, I have to defer to Staley’s decision making process.

If you watch the first episode of All In, you can see that Staley believes in doing what is best for a player versus what is easy. Keeping Hamilton and Steichen would have been the easy choice but as Popper pointed out, the scheme they used last year wasn’t sustainable in the long run. You can’t keep having easy reads for Herbert. It was one of the reasons he struggled against certain defenses last year. Lombardi’s scheme is hopefully making him a better QB in the long run ie. improving his mental processing, presnap and post snap reads etc. I think that was Popper’s point.

I also don’t think that retaining Steichen and Hamilton would change anything with regards to Staley’s focus on the defense. As a HC, his focus should be on the entire team and not just one side of the team. And it’s not like the offense is worse than last year. Additionally, our defensive problems seem to be primarily because we’re too top heavy and not enough depth which becomes an issue when there’s too many injuries to key guys. I don’t think Staley focusing more on the defensive side would have resolved this issue.

[Heatmiser]

I agree that Staley wanted his own system and own coaches. And I think it was a great sign that ownership supported that. Staley had a vision for Herbert from the time he interviewed and it has been realized and, eh, expressed itself on the field this year. Staley did the right thing and I don't think his decision was an indictment on Steichen.

My memory is bad, but did Steichen leave for Philly before or after Staley got hired? He and Siriani were buds from being on the Chargers staff in the past. Steichen did a lot of great things and impressed me and he is adapting and doing a solid job in Philly now too.

TG

[richpjr]

A little snippet on Herbert’s progress:

https://theathletic.com/3051453/2022/01/04/chargers-final-thoughts-playoff-scenarios-justin-herberts-growth-austin-ekeler-exceeds-expectations/

Point number 10 is outstanding and really contradicts some of the weird criticism thrown Herbert’s way in some of the game day threads.

[Xenos]

I agree that Staley wanted his own system and own coaches. And I think it was a great sign that ownership supported that. Staley had a vision for Herbert from the time he interviewed and it has been realized and, eh, expressed itself on the field this year. Staley did the right thing and I don't think his decision was an indictment on Steichen.

My memory is bad, but did Steichen leave for Philly before or after Staley got hired? He and Siriani were buds from being on the Chargers staff in the past. Steichen did a lot of great things and impressed me and he is adapting and doing a solid job in Philly now too.

TG

It was after since Steichen was still on staff. It was only after they hired Lombardi that Steichen was let go.

[Parcells]

I agree that Steichen, at least, does not get enough credit for helping Herbert achieve what he did as a rookie. And we all know Hamilton's role - he was probably the most influential. Which is why I still don't understand why a HC coming in would not want to retain both Steichen and Hamilton and try hard to convince them to stay. I get that new coach wants to hire his own people. But when an OC and QB coach achieve record-breaking success with a rookie QB, I think you want to retain that and keep it going. Herb admitting learning a new system was overwhelming makes me wonder how many games the Chargers lost this season due to the steep learning curve they subjected Herbert to, and how many more games the Chargers could have won this season if Steichen and Hamilton were retained and Herbert to grow in a second season under the same system he set record with as a rookie. This also would have allowed Staley to focus more on the defense, and not worry about the offense as much. Better minds than mine make these decisions, I guess, but I don't always understand them.

I think the hope and plan with Lombardi is that Herbert will actually improve over the next couple years. They've put a lot on his plate, but as he learns and grows he can get better and better. If he can have the complex offense that leads to a lot of open receivers (like Brees had in his heyday with the Saints) but add in Herbert's cannon of an arm, we can see a QB consistently put up 40+ TDs a year while hopefully limiting the interceptions to single digits.

[21&500]

I think the hope and plan with Lombardi is that Herbert will actually improve over the next couple years. They've put a lot on his plate, but as he learns and grows he can get better and better. If he can have the complex offense that leads to a lot of open receivers (like Brees had in his heyday with the Saints) but add in Herbert's cannon of an arm, we can see a QB consistently put up 40+ TDs a year while hopefully limiting the interceptions to single digits.

It's obvious to me that this is the plan
a long term investment in his development in good faith vs exhausting him into a deadly 2 or 3 trick pony for instant success
imo thats what happened to Mahomes and Jackson which is why today they both are still lacking is some basic qb fundamentals, particularly in their decision making
it worked out thus far for mahomes, but I would argue that he couldn't have behaven even better qb today if they balanced out his success with development.

Herbert understands this and has the maturity and patience to trust the process

Knock on wood and please excuse my over-confirence but imo, a championship is now a matter of when, not if