Joshua Kelley, RB, UCLA - Discussion

[Charge!]

What Steve is referencing is Marty Ball, and the Chargers used to employ it to great success. Marty's philosophy was to be so good at certain plays that they were unstoppable for the reasons Steve listed. You out execute the other team, you dominate them, you impose your will. He didn't care if the other team's DC knew the play that the offense was going to run, the defensive players knew it, the announcers knew it, the fans knew it. He cared that despite knowing it, you couldn't stop it. His entire coaching career he relied upon a few plays and would run them over and over and over. They were primarily running plays which is why some thought Marty Ball was just a conservative run offense.

TG

the problem with marty is that his basic philosophy of running the ball, punting, and waiting( more like praying) for the opponent to make a serious blunder like a turnover, blown coverage, etc..... works great but only against bad/mediocre teams....... but marty never understood that in the playoffs, you will be playing against good teams that know how to stuff the run when needed...... marty stupidly waited for jets and NE to make blunders, but the immature Chargers made the blunders and lost those playoff games..... same is true when marty was in Clev...... that is why he always lost to teams in playoffs.... Marty never understood that he needed to allow his QB to make plays to win those playoff games.....

and Chargers lost to Steelers in playoffs because Steelers figured out Chargers could not really man up and stop the run...... so from 2nd qtr till end of game, they just ran it up the gut on our soft defense...... Chargers had only 2 short possessions in 2nd half..... first one was a one play tipped pass int...... game over.....

Looking forward to actually having a tough physical defense and an explosive offense that can run well enough to keep a defense honest and throw successfully downfield to keep defense afraid to get burned deep.... keeping the defense from loading up the box.....

[chargeroo]

I just got around to listening to the interview on Chargers.com of Josh Kelley - what a nice kid! He's about as nice as you can be. Great smile, and very polite.He loves Ekeler already - he couldn't praise Herbert enough. When you listen to him and see the kind of guy he is - you gotta pull for him big time!

I'm getting kind of excited as IO realize a lot of the leaders of this team are still very young. I think we have something real good being built for the future.

[Heatmiser]

Same thing I noticed, Chargeroo. At first, I was shocked that he looked about 17 to me, but then I am old. But as he spoke, you can see why the Chargers like him so much. Great kid and articulate, polite, smart, appreciative of his Mom and he does light up the room. Cannot fake that smile. Seems like the CHargers have been drafting a lot of kids like this lately. Murray is another one and Tranquil, too. Also Gilman and Herbert although Herbert a little more reserved.

TG

[Heatmiser]

the problem with marty is that his basic philosophy of running the ball, punting, and waiting( more like praying) for the opponent to make a serious blunder like a turnover, blown coverage, etc..... works great but only against bad/mediocre teams....... but marty never understood that in the playoffs, you will be playing against good teams that know how to stuff the run when needed...... marty stupidly waited for jets and NE to make blunders, but the immature Chargers made the blunders and lost those playoff games..... same is true when marty was in Clev...... that is why he always lost to teams in playoffs.... Marty never understood that he needed to allow his QB to make plays to win those playoff games.....

and Chargers lost to Steelers in playoffs because Steelers figured out Chargers could not really man up and stop the run...... so from 2nd qtr till end of game, they just ran it up the gut on our soft defense...... Chargers had only 2 short possessions in 2nd half..... first one was a one play tipped pass int...... game over.....

Looking forward to actually having a tough physical defense and an explosive offense that can run well enough to keep a defense honest and throw successfully downfield to keep defense afraid to get burned deep.... keeping the defense from loading up the box.....

Oh he had those problems and plenty other ones, too (stubborn, too tied to his family, too loyal at times, too conservative in general, let his emotions cloud his decisions) so no arguments here. I always disliked Marty when he was in Cleveland and hated him in KC and was struggling when he was hired for the Bolts. But I really grew to like the guy. He for sure instilled toughness and a winning attitude to a team that did not have it. Just always came up short. Now the poor guy has altzheimers so bad he doesnt know what day it is. A real shame.

TG

[chargeroo]

One look at Ekeler and you know he's workout warrior.

I really enjoyed the interview of Kelley - he's easy to like, great smile, polite and articulate.

[Velo]

One look at Ekeler and you know he's workout warrior.

I really enjoyed the interview of Kelley - he's easy to like, great smile, polite and articulate.

st

Ekeler has freakishly big traps. Almost over-developed. I hope he doesn't test positive for anything.

[dmac_bolt]

Why is telegraphing an intention necessarily a bad thing?

A lot of great (read SB winning) coaches prefer to have clearly defined intentions. They out execute a team on the predictible plays, and force defenses to sell out tilting their defense to totally take away the clearly defined intention, then hit them with some complimentary plays.

At some point, the take what the defense gives you means that they are allowing the offense to play the game the defense wants. The offense needs to impose it's will at some point, and make them react to what the offense is doing. Until our O gets to that point, we will continue to be a 2nd rate team.

I don’t think its mutually exclusive. We could not telegraph what we are doing and still go out-execute the opponent. Heck, it might be easier or more frequent to out-execute if we don’t telegraph plays. Play to win, use every tool, take every advantage.

[Steve]

I don’t think its mutually exclusive. We could not telegraph what we are doing and still go out-execute the opponent. Heck, it might be easier or more frequent to out-execute if we don’t telegraph plays. Play to win, use every tool, take every advantage.

It's not necessarily mutually exclusive, but you won't execute at the same level if you don't commit all in on a signature play.

You can't set the other guy up if he has no idea what is coming. Using your tendency against the other team is a weapon to be used against them, it's not a disadvantage.

Again, several SB teams have taken the approach that they have a go-to play, make the defense sell out to stop it, and then that sets up the rest of the offense.

Trap - Steelers under Chuck Noll (4x)
Lead sweep - Dolphins under Shula (SB teams, not the later years where all they did was throw)(2x)
Outside Zone - Redskins under Gibbs (4x)
Inside Zone -Giants under Parcells (2x)
GB (Power) Sweep - Packers under Lombardi (2x SB, but 3 other NFL championships prior to the SB)
Cowboys under both Tom Landry and Jimmy Johnson (and Switzer, because he was just along for the ride) (6x) - Off tackle power for Landry, lead draw for Johnson and Switzer
Outside Zone - Broncos under Shanahan (2x)

That is 20 out of 54 SB winners, and several of those teams are considered among the top 10 best ever. i don't think you can accuse any of the teams on that list of playing not to win.

It's not like this is a strategy the Chargers can use ... (yet). While we have a roster that is pretty talented overall, we are still unevenly weak at too many key spots. We (and most football teams) lose because they have too many holes. Until the players on the OL and interior DL play at a much higher level, the Chargers are not a championship caliber team. Maybe good enough to make the playoffs, but not a true contender. JUst too many below average players to cover up for.

[Formula 21]

A lot of great teams have competent O Lines too. You can broadcast your plays all you want when you're better than the other guy up front.

[wu-dai clan]

It's not necessarily mutually exclusive, but you won't execute at the same level if you don't commit all in on a signature play.

You can't set the other guy up if he has no idea what is coming. Using your tendency against the other team is a weapon to be used against them, it's not a disadvantage.

Again, several SB teams have taken the approach that they have a go-to play, make the defense sell out to stop it, and then that sets up the rest of the offense.

Trap - Steelers under Chuck Noll (4x)
Lead sweep - Dolphins under Shula (SB teams, not the later years where all they did was throw)(2x)
Outside Zone - Redskins under Gibbs (4x)
Inside Zone -Giants under Parcells (2x)
GB (Power) Sweep - Packers under Lombardi (2x SB, but 3 other NFL championships prior to the SB)
Cowboys under both Tom Landry and Jimmy Johnson (and Switzer, because he was just along for the ride) (6x) - Off tackle power for Landry, lead draw for Johnson and Switzer
Outside Zone - Broncos under Shanahan (2x)

That is 20 out of 54 SB winners, and several of those teams are considered among the top 10 best ever. i don't think you can accuse any of the teams on that list of playing not to win.

It's not like this is a strategy the Chargers can use ... (yet). While we have a roster that is pretty talented overall, we are still unevenly weak at too many key spots. We (and most football teams) lose because they have too many holes. Until the players on the OL and interior DL play at a much higher level, the Chargers are not a championship caliber team. Maybe good enough to make the playoffs, but not a true contender. JUst too many below average players to cover up for.

This is what a top tier post looks like.

[sonorajim]

We had too many players perform at a below avg level in 2019. It is not engraved in stone that 2020 will have the same issues.
DT, LB groups are very likely avg or better.
LT, LG remain questions. There are changes around them, coaching, quality vet teammates, offensive scheme. The principal candidates are young and possess the necessary physical tools to be at least avg.

[Steve]

The "weak/worst" players on SB are usually guys who are just OK players. The other key is that there are only a very few of them.

We have enough high end talent to win a SB. I don't think that is the problem. The problem is that we have way to many low end guys and some of the low end guys who play are really low-low end. Whether it is those players improving or replacing them all, we need the bottom end guys to step it up and become solid guys.