Joshua Kelley, RB, UCLA - Discussion

[FarAwayBoltFan]

agree..... I think we finally drafted a very solid every down type of RB(not that he will play every down)....... But he will likely lead the Chargers in running carries, especially the tough yards between the tackles...... a no nonsense, frank gore type of solid tough dependable RB...... big upgrade over gordon...... perfect compliment to Ekler....

I'd like to see some sets where Kelley is in on 3rd down with Ekeler sliding outside. Defenses would have to prepare for both the run and pass.

[21&500]

I'd like to see some sets where Kelley is in on 3rd down with Ekeler sliding outside. Defenses would have to prepare for both the run and pass.

You absolutely KNOW that’s coming once JK proves to be a catching threat and capable pass protector

its getting real, real soon

[Topcat]

I'd like to see some sets where Kelley is in on 3rd down with Ekeler sliding outside. Defenses would have to prepare for both the run and pass.

Or better yet, I-formation, Ekkie is upback, Kelley at tail, on some plays put Ekkie in motion and and THEN he hits his route...tough to defend that...

[powderblueboy]

Doesn't a two back set, no matter how its configured, need to have at least one back who can lead block on running plays?
If not, why honor the run?

[JupiterBolt]

Would they be better aligned in a split formation?

[Topcat]

Would they be better aligned in a split formation?

I like that split formation...shift out of the I and the split gives u instant max protect for pass plays...if there's no heat on one side or the other, the RB becomes instant hot receiver if needed...or, stay in the I and ram it down their throat...

[Joy Division]

I'd like to see some sets where Kelley is in on 3rd down with Ekeler sliding outside. Defenses would have to prepare for both the run and pass.

Are there no receivers and tight ends in those sets?

[Topcat]

Are there no receivers and tight ends in those sets?

With two RB's in, there's still room for one TE and two wideouts in the 11 on O...

[Steve]

There are 5 eligible receivers, (plus the QB) so personnel groups label the # of RB (1st) and TE (2nd) and the # of WR is 5 minus the sum of the two groups.
NFL personnel is (traditionally) listed like this

Package........RB TE - WR are not listed
00...................0...….0....5 WR
01...………….0........1....4 WR
02...……....….0.......2.....3 WR

10..................1...….0.....4 WR
11...………….1...….1.....3 WR - This is the most common ;personnel group in the NFL (about 75% of the snaps)
12..................1...….2.....2 WR
13..................1...….3.....1 WR

20..................2...….0.....3 WR
21..................2...….1.....2 WR
22..................2...….2.....1 WR
23..................2...….3.....0 WR

The formations that the personnel line up in are somewhat independent of the personnel group on the field. You could have a TE line up as the 2nd RB in the 11 personnel, to give a split or I backfield, but then use 3 WR on the line. You can use 23 personnel, then split everyone out of the backfield and then go empty.

You can mix or match, but at some point it will come down to whether or not a player can accomplish what you draw up against whoever the D is playing.

Someone mentioned, if you are going with 2 RB, there are limited plays to run the ball unless one or both the RB can block. Same with the TE.

As far as what the Chargers are going to run, they aren't going to take Hunter Henry, Kennan Allen or Mike Williams off the field that much, so the vast majority of our offense will have 2 WR and 1 TE no matter what. Obviously they will have to give them rests, but the majority of the plays in any given game plan will have them in so they can be on the field to maximize their playmaking. Hard to have the big playmakers make plays if they aren't on the field.

I can't see us use too many 2 RB sets, at least until 1 or more of the RB (besides Ekeler) proves himself. Again, unless one of them proves they are going to be the guy who can carry the load as a runner, blocker and pass catcher, the primary load goes to Ekeler, although he will be off the field somewhat more than Allen/Henry/Williams just due to the RB workload and pounding.

Again, going back to what I have said before, the split backfield is not a very strong running formation. It was the predominant offensive formation when teams did reading defenses in the NFL back in the 60's and 70's, but then teams started one gapping, and now it is pretty much pass only, unless you are in the shotgun, because you can only run to one side of the field (easily).

The ace backfield, pistol and I formations are better run formations because they can attack the entire line, inside and outside, provided you can block the play (true of any play you draw up). if you want to run offtackle and the D is playing a force player on the edge, the you have to play a TE to run offtackle, otherwise, everything you run will cut up inside.

The other consideration is that we drafted 2 guys who have played primarily in the slot, as well as almost third/half of Ekeler TD came out of the slot last year. With Hill and Reed being added, it seems like a definite signal that they want to play a lot of 11 personnel, with either of them, or Ekeler in the slot, unless Reed moves to RB full time (he is the biggest RB on the team if you want to play him there).

[Formula 21]

I hold that we have no idea what the O schemes will be this year. Although I suspect our O is moving towards the past rather than the future.

[Topcat]

There are 5 eligible receivers, (plus the QB) so personnel groups label the # of RB (1st) and TE (2nd) and the # of WR is 5 minus the sum of the two groups.
NFL personnel is (traditionally) listed like this

Package........RB TE - WR are not listed
00...................0...….0....5 WR
01...………….0........1....4 WR
02...……....….0.......2.....3 WR

10..................1...….0.....4 WR
11...………….1...….1.....3 WR - This is the most common ;personnel group in the NFL (about 75% of the snaps)
12..................1...….2.....2 WR
13..................1...….3.....1 WR

20..................2...….0.....3 WR
21..................2...….1.....2 WR
22..................2...….2.....1 WR
23..................2...….3.....0 WR

The formations that the personnel line up in are somewhat independent of the personnel group on the field. You could have a TE line up as the 2nd RB in the 11 personnel, to give a split or I backfield, but then use 3 WR on the line. You can use 23 personnel, then split everyone out of the backfield and then go empty.

You can mix or match, but at some point it will come down to whether or not a player can accomplish what you draw up against whoever the D is playing.

Someone mentioned, if you are going with 2 RB, there are limited plays to run the ball unless one or both the RB can block. Same with the TE.

As far as what the Chargers are going to run, they aren't going to take Hunter Henry, Kennan Allen or Mike Williams off the field that much, so the vast majority of our offense will have 2 WR and 1 TE no matter what. Obviously they will have to give them rests, but the majority of the plays in any given game plan will have them in so they can be on the field to maximize their playmaking. Hard to have the big playmakers make plays if they aren't on the field.

I can't see us use too many 2 RB sets, at least until 1 or more of the RB (besides Ekeler) proves himself. Again, unless one of them proves they are going to be the guy who can carry the load as a runner, blocker and pass catcher, the primary load goes to Ekeler, although he will be off the field somewhat more than Allen/Henry/Williams just due to the RB workload and pounding.

Again, going back to what I have said before, the split backfield is not a very strong running formation. It was the predominant offensive formation when teams did reading defenses in the NFL back in the 60's and 70's, but then teams started one gapping, and now it is pretty much pass only, unless you are in the shotgun, because you can only run to one side of the field (easily).

The ace backfield, pistol and I formations are better run formations because they can attack the entire line, inside and outside, provided you can block the play (true of any play you draw up). if you want to run offtackle and the D is playing a force player on the edge, the you have to play a TE to run offtackle, otherwise, everything you run will cut up inside.

The other consideration is that we drafted 2 guys who have played primarily in the slot, as well as almost third/half of Ekeler TD came out of the slot last year. With Hill and Reed being added, it seems like a definite signal that they want to play a lot of 11 personnel, with either of them, or Ekeler in the slot, unless Reed moves to RB full time (he is the biggest RB on the team if you want to play him there).

Good info, Steve. Another reason why we probably won't see too many 2-rb sets is because with Tyrod, Herbie and Stick, we now have THREE QB's who are a threat to run the rock, hence our QB can be a de facto second RB...something we never had with PR...

[wu-dai clan]

I would argue that anything and everything, including the unconventional, is now on the table.

In one of the Popper images, the Ravens were running a PISTOL/RPO play. They were heavy right, with three offensive linemen over there. TE Nick Boyle lined up at OLT. FB Patrick Picard loned up along side Lamar, RB behind Lamar. FB had a key block on the play.

We can visualize the Chargers using HH/Green/UDFA FB in similar roles.
The possibilities are only limited by the players capabilities.

Here comes genius level Steichen.