When Does Herbert Sit? - Justin Herbert Discussion

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  • Originally posted by gzubeck View Post

    Yup....if Tyrod plays like he did in the first game and it's a no contest game....meaning we're playing but not challenging at all....the red rocket would be a huge upgrade over tyrod. Dalton would give us 90% of Rivers without the turnovers. Everyone's happy!
    Dalton's career INT percentage is higher than that of Rivers.

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    • SuperCharged
      Registered Charger Fan
      • Sep 2019
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      • Utah
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      Originally posted by chargeroo View Post

      You are likely right but Stick does have the benefit of last years ots, tc and year of practicing. Plus, they may think Herbert needs more time. I can see the possibility that they'd give Stick a shot. Playing Herbert, if he's not ready, would give him a chance to learn but it would essentially be throwing in the towel on this year.

      Let's all hope that Tyrod will have a great game this week and many more after that so we won't ever need to see who steps in for him.
      I would be stunned. I like Easton as well. But I just don't see it.

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      • gzubeck
        Ines Sainz = Jet Bait!
        • Jan 2019
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        Originally posted by chaincrusher View Post

        Dalton's career INT percentage is higher than that of Rivers.
        I get you on some level...is that TD to interceptions your talking about? Because I have Rivers throwing on average per year of 14 and Dalton at 13. Maybe you could argue that rivers has been more productive in TDs per season than Dalton. That's why I said Dalton gives you 90% of Rivers which I think is fair.
        Chiefs won the Superbowl with 10 Rookies....

        "Locked, Cocked, and ready to Rock!" Jim Harbaugh

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        • Originally posted by gzubeck View Post

          I get you on some level...is that TD to interceptions your talking about? Because I have Rivers throwing on average per year of 14 and Dalton at 13. Maybe you could argue that rivers has been more productive in TDs per season than Dalton. That's why I said Dalton gives you 90% of Rivers which I think is fair.
          INT percentage is taken as a percentage of passes thrown. If a player has a lower INT percentage, but has higher raw INT totals, it means that the player has attempted significantly more passes than the other player.

          So, for example, if QB A has a 4% INT percentage (which is terrible for a season), and throws 300 passes, that QB will have 12 INTs. If QB B throws INTs at 2.5% rate, which is a pretty good INT percentage, and throws 600 passes, that player will have 15 INTs. The player with the greater number of INTs actually does a better job of not throwing them in my example.

          Dalton's INT percentage is higher, which means he throws more INTs per pass thrown than Rivers.

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          • gzubeck
            Ines Sainz = Jet Bait!
            • Jan 2019
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            Originally posted by chaincrusher View Post

            INT percentage is taken as a percentage of passes thrown. If a player has a lower INT percentage, but has higher raw INT totals, it means that the player has attempted significantly more passes than the other player.

            So, for example, if QB A has a 4% INT percentage (which is terrible for a season), and throws 300 passes, that QB will have 12 INTs. If QB B throws INTs at 2.5% rate, which is a pretty good INT percentage, and throws 600 passes, that player will have 15 INTs. The player with the greater number of INTs actually does a better job of not throwing them in my example.

            Dalton's INT percentage is higher, which means he throws more INTs per pass thrown than Rivers.
            Still though....

            Phillip Rivers (prime) > Andy Dalton > Tyrod Taylor (Ever)

            :2cents:
            Chiefs won the Superbowl with 10 Rookies....

            "Locked, Cocked, and ready to Rock!" Jim Harbaugh

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            • richpjr
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              • Jun 2013
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              Originally posted by gzubeck View Post

              Still though....

              Phillip Rivers (prime) > Andy Dalton > Tyrod Taylor (Ever)

              :2cents:
              Rivers (prime) > Rivers (present) > Dalton >>>>> Taylor

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              • gzubeck
                Ines Sainz = Jet Bait!
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                Originally posted by richpjr View Post

                Rivers (prime) > Rivers (present) > Dalton >>>>> Taylor
                maybe...dalton is younger...
                Chiefs won the Superbowl with 10 Rookies....

                "Locked, Cocked, and ready to Rock!" Jim Harbaugh

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                • Xenos
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                  • Feb 2019
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                  Popper answers some questions about this:


                  I got a number of questions about rookie quarterback Justin Herbert this week. There seems to be a general level of frustration across the fan base about Tyrod Taylor’s Week 1 performance. Most of it is gross overreaction that disregards essential context. I want to thank our question-asker for being measured.

                  First, let’s provide the context that a lot of fans are not acknowledging. Tyrod Taylor is not Patrick Mahomes. He is not Russell Wilson. He is not Lamar Jackson. He is not Aaron Rodgers. At 31 years old, Taylor’s skillset is pretty well defined. His limitations are clear, and I wrote about them at length this offseason. He is a great athlete and provides value with his mobility. But that is where his similarities to those other quarterbacks end. Taylor does not see the middle of the field well. He is cautious and will not force the ball into tight windows, especially in that part of the field. He will take a punt over an interception every single time. And here is the kicker: That is exactly what coach Anthony Lynn wants and expects out of Taylor. Protect. The. Ball.

                  The Chargers are not going to have a tantalizingly efficient passing game this season. They are not going to win games with their offense. But that shouldn’t be a secret. This has been the plan ever since they drafted Herbert and committed to rolling with Taylor as their Week 1 starter. This is a ball-control offense that will depend on the running game. Splash plays in the passing game will be icing on the cake, not something that the Chargers are depending on to win games. It is fine to question the approach of the organization. But expecting the Chargers to have a high-powered passing game is like asking a Toyota Corolla to go 0 to 60 in 4.0 seconds. It’s not going to happen. It was never going to happen. Still, the Corolla can still be successful and valuable in the right situation.

                  The other piece of context missing from fan reaction is all the missed practice time this offseason. The Chargers debuted a new offense Sunday. They called zone reads and other option runs. They used a higher rate of play action, including regularly from under center. They relied heavily on wide zone runs and wide zone play actions. The Chargers simply weren’t doing this stuff with Philip Rivers as their quarterback. He preferred shotgun and, generally, didn’t love to run play action.

                  So the Chargers implemented this new scheme with just one month of on-field practice time and no preseason games. They did it with a new quarterback, a new right tackle, a new right guard, and an offensive coordinator spending his first offseason in that role. It should be a surprise to no one that the offense looked a little disjointed in its first actual game using these new concepts. It will improve and become sharper with more reps.

                  A perfect example: The Chargers should have converted that fourth-and-2 at the beginning of the second quarter Sunday, when Taylor ran a zone read. He had Bengals defensive end Sam Hubbard on the left edge committing inside when he placed the ball in Austin Ekeler’s belly. But he pulled the handoff back way too early. Hubbard was able to change direction and drop Taylor behind the line for a turnover on downs. If Taylor holds that ball in Ekeler’s belly for a millisecond longer, Hubbard would have overcommitted, and Taylor could have walked for a first down. That isn’t unimaginative play-calling from Shane Steichen. It is poor execution as a result of rust.

                  To actually answer the question, it would take utter disaster for the Chargers to turn to Herbert that early. A 1-4 start would probably qualify as that, and I would expect some conversations to take place at that point. But overall, I think fans are generally overestimating where Herbert is in his development. We are talking about a player who took one (1) snap under center in his entire college career. He was also calling for the snap with a clap at Oregon, meaning he has to learn how to operate at the line of scrimmage from scratch, from both a physical and vocal/mental standpoint. The Chargers are not going to rush him onto the field. If Taylor went down with an injury, then Herbert would be forced into action. But I expect them to wait as long as they possibly can to turn to Herbert. Even with the Chargers at 1-4, I wouldn’t guarantee Herbert gets on the field. And for the record, I don’t think they will be 1-4.

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                  • Originally posted by richpjr View Post

                    Rivers (prime) > Rivers (present) > Dalton >>>>> Taylor
                    That seems to be the case at least at this point with Taylor. I certainly agree that Rivers (at any time) is better than Dalton and not just because of INT percentage.

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                    • Bolt-O
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                      • Jun 2013
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                      So, who had this right?

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                      • Boltsfan70
                        East Coast Chargers Fan
                        • Jun 2013
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                        i will eat crow on the Herbert pick

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                        • Bolt-O
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                          • Jun 2013
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                          Originally posted by Boltsfan70 View Post
                          i will eat crow on the Herbert pick
                          I'll have extra BBQ sauce on mine, thanks.

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