What if the Chargers Make a Run at Jadeveon Clowney?

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  • 21&500
    Bolt Spit-Baller
    • Sep 2018
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    #13
    Originally posted by Pointyearedog View Post
    Doesn't he have a couple of character issues that would cause some disruption in the locker room?
    “Absolutely”

    —Tyreek Hill
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    • Steve
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      • Jun 2013
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      #14
      Right now, he needs to come to grips that no one wants to pay him $20 mill a year. He hit free agency on Day 1, no one was willing to spend the money on him then, which is when teams are willing to spend stupid amounts of money on players do it. And looking at the signings, plenty of teams were out spending stupid amounts of money for marginal players, so I think you can safely assume he has priced himself out of the market.

      Any team that needed pass rush help (there are 32 of them, no matter how good you are, you always need more) has had a chance to revisit things and sign him this week, post draft. He is still on the street. Pretty soon, the other guys who are getting priced out will sign and then everyone will have to play for table scraps. If he is going to get a decent, 1-year prove it deal, he needs to start finalizeing things with a team soon.

      The Chargers would actually not be a bad choice to sign with. While the fact that we have some other pass rushers limits his upside somewhat, it also means he will get lots of one on one oppruntunities. And with both Bosa and Ingram being FA, there is a chance we would be in the market to resign Clowney next season, if he comes down on his price to something more in line with what the market pays guys with his production.

      Clowney is a good play. He is just not the great player he seems to think he is.

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      • JOJAX85
        Registered Charger Fan
        • Sep 2018
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        #15
        Originally posted by Steve View Post
        Right now, he needs to come to grips that no one wants to pay him $20 mill a year. He hit free agency on Day 1, no one was willing to spend the money on him then, which is when teams are willing to spend stupid amounts of money on players do it. And looking at the signings, plenty of teams were out spending stupid amounts of money for marginal players, so I think you can safely assume he has priced himself out of the market.

        Any team that needed pass rush help (there are 32 of them, no matter how good you are, you always need more) has had a chance to revisit things and sign him this week, post draft. He is still on the street. Pretty soon, the other guys who are getting priced out will sign and then everyone will have to play for table scraps. If he is going to get a decent, 1-year prove it deal, he needs to start finalizeing things with a team soon.

        The Chargers would actually not be a bad choice to sign with. While the fact that we have some other pass rushers limits his upside somewhat, it also means he will get lots of one on one oppruntunities. And with both Bosa and Ingram being FA, there is a chance we would be in the market to resign Clowney next season, if he comes down on his price to something more in line with what the market pays guys with his production.

        Clowney is a good play. He is just not the great player he seems to think he is.
        No he's not. He was the #1 incoming Freshman & then made the hit heard 'round the world. Immediately after he was gassed up into thinking he was the greatest Defensive player to ever play college football. He had 3 sacks last year. 3! Good, even great run defender at Defensive Edge, that's terrible. & You think you deserve $18Mil?? I don't want him period, but offer him $3M + $1M/per sack. Bet he shows up every play then.

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        • Steve
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          • Jun 2013
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          #16
          I never said he deserves $18 mill. In terms of market value of edge defenders, he certainly doesn't play well enough to justify it. And if you read carefuly, you will notice I never said that.

          He is a good enough run defender and pass rusher to maybe justify about half of that. But his inconsistent production and injury (not too bad, but somewhat concerning) history will knock a bunch off of that. More like $4-5 mill a year for 1 year in a prove it. The Chargers don't use incentives to a large degree because it can backfire. so while fans may like it the Charger don't do much of it.

          I was just suggesting it is not worth dismissing signing out of hand.

          I had thought the second paragraph I wrote was clear in pointing out that every team has already judged his $20 mil salary idea (twice, FA and post-draft) and dismissed it. Apparently that part didn't come across.

          It is also interesting to note that almost every big play Clowney is remembered for, is in run D, not as a pass rusher. He really hasn't made many big sacks.

          Sacks are an awful way to judge pass rushers. They are the goal on the field, but there are seasons that a pass rusher can cause all kinds of havoc and still have few (no) sacks to show for it. They require context to understand how much they mean to a team. Almost 20% of sacks are awarded to players who weren't even blocked. 30% of sacks come when another player hits the QB first, and misses, so the 2nd player gets it. So, half of the sacks out there are for a player who did not beat his offensive blocker decisively. There is not much skill in that.

          Pressures is a better metric of what a player does on the field, but even that can vary a lot. However QB passer ratings drop over 30 points from almost 100, to just under 70. that is turning a Deshaun Watson/Derek Carr type of player into a Cam Newton or Devlin Hodges.

          Judging Clowney, he gets 400-500 pass rushes per season, and has been getting from the low 30's to low 60 pressures per year. Not bad, but not exactly top of the heap either. To give some more context, Bosa typically does 70+ in his full seasons, and Ingram is between 60 to mid 70's.

          So, Clowney is a solid pass rusher, an above average starter who is a good run defender, but not a great pass rusher, and it is the pass rusher that drive the pay scale. He is going to have to come to grips with it soon, that he may not be playing if he holds to his guns on his salary demands. Sometimes a team can cash in by having a reasonable deal in place. Again, the $4-$5 mill per season on a one year deal. There is no other player available whose production is anywhere close to it.

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          • JOJAX85
            Registered Charger Fan
            • Sep 2018
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            #17
            Originally posted by Steve View Post
            I never said he deserves $18 mill. In terms of market value of edge defenders, he certainly doesn't play well enough to justify it. And if you read carefuly, you will notice I never said that.

            He is a good enough run defender and pass rusher to maybe justify about half of that. But his inconsistent production and injury (not too bad, but somewhat concerning) history will knock a bunch off of that. More like $4-5 mill a year for 1 year in a prove it. The Chargers don't use incentives to a large degree because it can backfire. so while fans may like it the Charger don't do much of it.

            I was just suggesting it is not worth dismissing signing out of hand.

            I had thought the second paragraph I wrote was clear in pointing out that every team has already judged his $20 mil salary idea (twice, FA and post-draft) and dismissed it. Apparently that part didn't come across.

            It is also interesting to note that almost every big play Clowney is remembered for, is in run D, not as a pass rusher. He really hasn't made many big sacks.

            Sacks are an awful way to judge pass rushers. They are the goal on the field, but there are seasons that a pass rusher can cause all kinds of havoc and still have few (no) sacks to show for it. They require context to understand how much they mean to a team. Almost 20% of sacks are awarded to players who weren't even blocked. 30% of sacks come when another player hits the QB first, and misses, so the 2nd player gets it. So, half of the sacks out there are for a player who did not beat his offensive blocker decisively. There is not much skill in that.

            Pressures is a better metric of what a player does on the field, but even that can vary a lot. However QB passer ratings drop over 30 points from almost 100, to just under 70. that is turning a Deshaun Watson/Derek Carr type of player into a Cam Newton or Devlin Hodges.

            Judging Clowney, he gets 400-500 pass rushes per season, and has been getting from the low 30's to low 60 pressures per year. Not bad, but not exactly top of the heap either. To give some more context, Bosa typically does 70+ in his full seasons, and Ingram is between 60 to mid 70's.

            So, Clowney is a solid pass rusher, an above average starter who is a good run defender, but not a great pass rusher, and it is the pass rusher that drive the pay scale. He is going to have to come to grips with it soon, that he may not be playing if he holds to his guns on his salary demands. Sometimes a team can cash in by having a reasonable deal in place. Again, the $4-$5 mill per season on a one year deal. There is no other player available whose production is anywhere close to it.
            I wasn't knocking your post. I agree with most of what you say. I was more speaking in general, because I'm just not a fan of the guy For reasons I pointed out in another thread. But I do think that HE thinks so highly of himself that he would rather sit out than play for $5M.

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            • 21&500
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              #18
              Originally posted by JOJAX85 View Post

              I wasn't knocking your post. I agree with most of what you say. I was more speaking in general, because I'm just not a fan of the guy For reasons I pointed out in another thread. But I do think that HE thinks so highly of himself that he would rather sit out than play for $5M.
              even if we do get him way cheap, would he really be motivated?
              based off his original asking price, and his uninspiring development (considering the tools hes working with) my guess is that resentment outweighs motivation to win.
              not a gamble I would like.
              .005 Brock Bowers, TE/HB/SR Georgia
              .037 Braden Fiske, DT Florida St.
              .069 Mike Sainristil, CB Michigan
              .105 Brenden Rice, WR USC
              .110 Mason McCormick, OG/OC S. Dakota St.
              .140 Zak Zinter, OG Michigan
              .181 Nehemiah Pritchett, CB Auburn
              .225 Ainias Smith, WR Texas A&M
              .253 Carson Steele, RB UCLA

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              • JOJAX85
                Registered Charger Fan
                • Sep 2018
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                #19
                Originally posted by 21&500 View Post

                even if we do get him way cheap, would he really be motivated?
                based off his original asking price, and his uninspiring development (considering the tools hes working with) my guess is that resentment outweighs motivation to win.
                not a gamble I would like.
                That is how I see it as well. unless it's something ridiculous like I said above. Minimum salary, super duper incentive laced. And also with somebody else... Not us.

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                • MagicMamba88
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                  • Sep 2019
                  • 2007
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                  #20
                  Clay Matthews is another guy the Chargers could look at also.

                  plus he probably wants to stay home in LA

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                  • Bolts4ever213
                    Day One...
                    • Mar 2019
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                    #21
                    Clowney would be the fourth maybe third best defend lineman on this team. If we can get him for a good price, why not. Look at the 49ers dline, all first rounders and they are deep with them. On third down, Bosa, Clowney, Tillery, Ingram, sounds solid to me. I know Tillery does fit, but I do expect him to get better his second year in the league.

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                    • 21&500
                      Bolt Spit-Baller
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                      #22
                      Originally posted by MagicMamba88 View Post
                      Clay Matthews is another guy the Chargers could look at also.

                      plus he probably wants to stay home in LA
                      Good idea.
                      motivation would be there
                      how is Clay holding up these days?
                      .005 Brock Bowers, TE/HB/SR Georgia
                      .037 Braden Fiske, DT Florida St.
                      .069 Mike Sainristil, CB Michigan
                      .105 Brenden Rice, WR USC
                      .110 Mason McCormick, OG/OC S. Dakota St.
                      .140 Zak Zinter, OG Michigan
                      .181 Nehemiah Pritchett, CB Auburn
                      .225 Ainias Smith, WR Texas A&M
                      .253 Carson Steele, RB UCLA

                      Comment

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