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  • Questions for Christians

    I will first state that I like most Christians I know. Most are good people who want to do "the right thing." Many people have "assumed" I am Christian, and I always take that as a compliment, for it is meant to be one.

    But my country, the United States, we have been badly "off course" since 1998, and the Christian religion's obsession with Israel is leading us off a cliff.

    Here are my questions for any Christian bold enough to answer....


    1. The only demographic to observe Jesus when he lived was the Jewish demographic, and they universally reject him and consider him a total fraud. Why do you think you know more about Jesus than those who actually observed him?

    2. When Jesus said "Give up everything and follow me," who did you give everything to?

    3. Since most if not all of the "miracles" were observed by just the Disciples, clearly the Disciples knew the answer as to whether Jesus was really the Son of God or a complete fraud. When the authorities come to "arrest" Jesus, the Disciples bolt, they take off and leave Jesus. How does that behavioral choice support the idea that the Disciples thought Jesus was really the Son of God? Doesn't it support the idea that the Disciples knew Jesus was a total fraud and didn't want to end up on a cross next to him?

    4. At the peak of his "reign," Jesus had 5k followers according to the Bible. During the "loaves and fishes" scene, we find Jesus with no food or money. Yes, he went out in a boat and fed "everyone" some fish and bread. But 5k is a decent sized TOWN, not a small settlement. Clearly, Jesus had his followers growing crops and tending livestock. What happened? Did the Son of God run out of food due to an "act of God?"

    5. How does Revelation have any credibility when its first sentence now defines "soon" as MORE THAN 1800 years from now?



    Thank,s and try not to spazz out...

  • #2
    1. Matthew, Mark and John were Jews. Luke was a Greek, who traveled with the apostle Paul. I don't think I know more than anybody, and don't really take the Bible word-for-word literally. If I did, I wouldn't be able to explain how Adam & Eve's two sons were able to populate the Earth without having relations with their mom.

    2. Seems like you're trying to take things too literally. I gave up drugs, alcohol, gambling, and child support took the rest.

    3. Maybe after witnessing miracles, doesn't it support the idea that they thought he'd probably be ok without them? Why do you think you know more about their motives than what is presented?

    4. Jesus didn't care about material possessions, and obviously didn't need to carry food. Also, have you ever tried to grow crops or tend livestock in an area where it gets almost no rain, and no ample supply of water? Also, it was probably that child support garnished his farm.

    5. 1,800 years seems like a lot to you. Do you think that it's a long time to God?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by SuperCharger View Post
      Jesus didn't care about material possessions


      I'm quite sure that his "followers" ended up disagreeing with that statement. "Give up everything" meant just that. You gave everything to Jesus and his disciples and you went and lived in "Spartanesque" conditions in the "Nazarene" to achieve your holy destination to Heaven...

      The "loaves and fishes" scene is really the "last supper." When a pyramid scheme goes bad, you have no assets, and you owe a lot, and that's when your "allies" bolt on you...

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by SuperCharger View Post
        1,800 years seems like a lot to you. Do you think that it's a long time to God?

        The words used are "THIS WILL HAPPEN SOON"

        Apparently, "soon" means MORE THAN 1800 years to "God," or it means that Revelation is 100% bull...

        What about Revelation 6:13 - I mean, just how many stars would fit on Earth's surface??? A: ZERO....

        http://biblehub.com/revelation/6-13.htm
        Verse (Click for Chapter)
        New International Version
        and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.

        New Living Translation
        Then the stars of the sky fell to the earth like green figs falling from a tree shaken by a strong wind.

        English Standard Version
        and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale.

        Berean Study Bible
        and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind.

        Berean Literal Bible
        and the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs, being shaken by a great wind.

        New American Standard Bible
        and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind.






        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by SuperCharger View Post
          1. Matthew, Mark and John were Jews. Luke was a Greek, who traveled with the apostle Paul. I don't think I know more than anybody, and don't really take the Bible word-for-word literally. If I did, I wouldn't be able to explain how Adam & Eve's two sons were able to populate the Earth without having relations with their mom.

          2. Seems like you're trying to take things too literally. I gave up drugs, alcohol, gambling, and child support took the rest.

          3. Maybe after witnessing miracles, doesn't it support the idea that they thought he'd probably be ok without them? Why do you think you know more about their motives than what is presented?

          4. Jesus didn't care about material possessions, and obviously didn't need to carry food. Also, have you ever tried to grow crops or tend livestock in an area where it gets almost no rain, and no ample supply of water? Also, it was probably that child support garnished his farm.

          5. 1,800 years seems like a lot to you. Do you think that it's a long time to God?

          There is 0 evidence that the gospels were written by the titled author. The vast majority of christian biblical scholars attest to this.

          If this bible is the WORD of god it must be correct in all things. If not, why believe in any of it.

          There is 0 verifiable evidence of any miracle ever.

          What proof/evidence does anyone have that jesus ever actually existed?

          1800 years is a spec in time. The earth is 4+ billion years old. If you add up the chronology in the Bible god created the universe, sun, earth, and human beings about 6,000 years ago.



          Last edited by like54ninjas; 12-04-2018, 04:51 PM. Reason: Grammar error
          2019 Adopt - A - Bolt

          KYZIR WHITE

          CORTEZ BROUGHTON

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by like54ninjas View Post


            There is 0 evidence that the gospels were written by the titled author. The vast majority of christian biblical scholars attest to this.

            If this bible is the WORD of god it must be correct in all things. If not, why believe in any of it.

            There is 0 verifiable evidence of any miracle ever.

            What proof/evidence does anyone have the jesus ever actually existed?

            1800 years is a spec in time. The earth is 4+ billion years old. If you add up the chronology in the Bible god created the universe, sun, earth, and human beings about 6,000 years ago.



            What about the miracle on ice?
            The ruskies were godless commies after all.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by obvious_idiot_bolt View Post

              What about the miracle on ice?
              The ruskies were godless commies after all.
              Good one. Lol
              2019 Adopt - A - Bolt

              KYZIR WHITE

              CORTEZ BROUGHTON

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by LaDexter View Post
                I will first state that I like most Christians I know. Most are good people who want to do "the right thing." Many people have "assumed" I am Christian, and I always take that as a compliment, for it is meant to be one.

                But my country, the United States, we have been badly "off course" since 1998, and the Christian religion's obsession with Israel is leading us off a cliff.

                Here are my questions for any Christian bold enough to answer....


                1. The only demographic to observe Jesus when he lived was the Jewish demographic, and they universally reject him and consider him a total fraud. Why do you think you know more about Jesus than those who actually observed him?

                2. When Jesus said "Give up everything and follow me," who did you give everything to?

                3. Since most if not all of the "miracles" were observed by just the Disciples, clearly the Disciples knew the answer as to whether Jesus was really the Son of God or a complete fraud. When the authorities come to "arrest" Jesus, the Disciples bolt, they take off and leave Jesus. How does that behavioral choice support the idea that the Disciples thought Jesus was really the Son of God? Doesn't it support the idea that the Disciples knew Jesus was a total fraud and didn't want to end up on a cross next to him?

                4. At the peak of his "reign," Jesus had 5k followers according to the Bible. During the "loaves and fishes" scene, we find Jesus with no food or money. Yes, he went out in a boat and fed "everyone" some fish and bread. But 5k is a decent sized TOWN, not a small settlement. Clearly, Jesus had his followers growing crops and tending livestock. What happened? Did the Son of God run out of food due to an "act of God?"

                5. How does Revelation have any credibility when its first sentence now defines "soon" as MORE THAN 1800 years from now?



                Thank,s and try not to spazz out...
                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------











                I will first state that I like most Christians I know. Most are good people who want to do "the right thing." Many people have "assumed" I am Christian, and I always take that as a compliment, for it is meant to be one.




                But my country, the United States, we have been badly "off course" since 1998, and the Christian religion's obsession with Israel is leading us off a cliff.




                Here are my questions for any Christian bold enough to answer....







                1. The only demographic to observe Jesus when he lived was the Jewish demographic, and they universally reject him and consider him a total fraud. Why do you think you know more about Jesus than those who actually observed him?
                • The Jews had been expecting the Messiah for over 400 years. In their minds he would be a strong leader that would defeat the Romans and drive them out of Israel. He taught Jesus taught them to turn the other check, love your enemy, etc. He was not the great warrior/leader that they wanted so they did not believe in him.
                • Even at that we are aware of over 8,000 that did believe in him because the Bible tells us.
                • In general, I think most people today can know more about Jesus than the Jews of the first century could possibly know. Remember they did not have any kind of mass communication. They did not have Bibles (the New Testament had not even been written at that time.)
                    • Today, Bibles are readily available and there are countless books and Internet sites about him




                2. When Jesus said "Give up everything and follow me," who did you give everything to?
                • I believe you are referring to this passage from Matthew 19:21 - Jesus answered, If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.
                • Putting the statement into context, we see that the 12 Apstles had, indeed, given up everything to follow him. When the rich young man in this story wanted to follow him he simply asked him to do the same thing the other disciples had already done.
                    • I dont think that passage was directed toward all mankind from that day forward, it was simply an answer to that particular man that wanted to join the Apostles.
                    • In support of that thought, believers are told to help the widows, children, and poor people of the world how could we do that if we gave away everything we had when we decided to follow him?




                3. Since most if not all of the "miracles" were observed by just the Disciples, clearly the Disciples knew the answer as to whether Jesus was really the Son of God or a complete fraud. When the authorities come to "arrest" Jesus, the Disciples bolt, they take off and leave Jesus. How does that behavioral choice support the idea that the Disciples thought Jesus was really the Son of God? Doesn't it support the idea that the Disciples knew Jesus was a total fraud and didn't want to end up on a cross next to him?
                • You ask some important question first, not all of them bolted John was with Mary at the foot of the cross. Peter, though scared to death and hiding the fact that he was a disciple, was none the less in the courtyard watching what was going on. However, I suspect you are right, I suspect they did have some doubt at that time and they probably feared they would be next.
                • We know that at least 8,000 others witnessed his miracles (feeding them with only enough food for one person is a miracle.) Id also point out the reception he got when he rode into Jerusalem at Passover. The second century historians estimated that a million people were in attendance at that time. Again though, they wanted a conquering hero not a teacher.
                • Of the twelve Apostles, one committed suicide (Judas) no doubt plagued by a heavy heart when he realized his mistake. Another was deposed to an island to keep him from preaching about Jesus. The rest of them were cruelly killed for their belief. They could have avoided their terrible death by simply saying that what they had been teaching was untrue. If they didnt believe in Jesus why did they let the Jewish leaders and the Romans put them to death?




                4. At the peak of his "reign," Jesus had 5k followers according to the Bible. During the "loaves and fishes" scene, we find Jesus with no food or money. Yes, he went out in a boat and fed "everyone" some fish and bread. But 5k is a decent sized TOWN, not a small settlement. Clearly, Jesus had his followers growing crops and tending livestock. What happened? Did the Son of God run out of food due to an "act of God?"
                • My faith leads me to believe that Jesus used his power to turn that small amount of food into enough to feed the 5,000. On another occasion he feed 3k out in the wilderness. Feeding those people in that manner was meant as a sign so they could see that he was the Messiah. I believe that. You may chose to think he had some secret stash from crops that the Apostles grew. I sure cant disproved that, but I choose to believe the Bible.
                • By the way, the peak of his rein has not yet come. That wont happen until the second coming.




                5. How does Revelation have any credibility when its first sentence now defines "soon" as MORE THAN 1800 years from now?
                • God clearly stated in the Old Testament that a thousand years to you is like a day to me.







                I know that non-believers find it hard to believe the Bible, most even find it difficult to read. You are free to believe my explanations or not, God gave you free will. Be warned though there are several scriptures (Romans 10:9 ~ John 3:16 ~ John 14:6 ~ John 3:36) that tell us we MUST believe in the son of God to get to Heaven and Hell sounds like a very bad place to me. The Bible describes it as a lake of fire.




                Im not a regular in this forum so Im not likely to read anything more you may post in response to this. However, when I read your questions I thought someone should answer the man. I wish you well and I hope that some day you will come to believe the Bible and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Meantime, God Bless you.




                Reference's that may be useful to you;




                This site is a very good place to find answers for the most commonly asked questions about Christian beliefs. - https://www.gotquestions.org/




                This site offers a line by line explanation of the Bible. You have to scroll well down the page to the index of the various books of the Bible. - https://enduringword.com/bible-commentary/



















                Comment


                • #9
                  LaDexter, a long time ago, I took college courses in Philosophy of Religion.

                  The teachings were distinctly different from those of courses in Logic.

                  What I am saying is that it is folly to apply logic to religion.

                  BTW, how do you feel about your mortality ?
                  We attempt to play modern defensive football.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by wu-dai clan View Post
                    LaDexter, a long time ago, I took college courses in Philosophy of Religion.

                    The teachings were distinctly different from those of courses in Logic.

                    What I am saying is that it is folly to apply logic to religion.

                    BTW, how do you feel about your mortality ?
                    Here's what I believe.
                    I believe we are all created in Gods image. I believe God is eternal and so are we. When we die here on Earth, we will live on in the afterlife. Those that have accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior will spend eternity in Heaven, the non believers will spend eternity in Hell.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by chargeroo View Post
                      Here's what I believe.
                      I believe we are all created in Gods image. I believe God is eternal and so are we. When we die here on Earth, we will live on in the afterlife. Those that have accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior will spend eternity in Heaven, the non believers will spend eternity in Hell.
                      Well said, Roo. I agree with your comments, and will add this: 40 years ago, I had a bad alcohol and drug problem; I had problems holding down a job; I felt that life was hopeless. Then, in Easter week of 1979, I saw the "Jesus of Nazareth" multi-part TV movie, the Franco Zeferelli version, starring Robert Powell as Jesus. IMHO, this is the finest version of Jesus's life ever produced. I directly attribute this film as the starting point which led, three years later, to a total transformation of my life. We can argue about doctrine and/or why did the disciples do this or that, or Israel, etc. all day long, but the bottom line is that God can change your life for the better, IF you allow him to. 'Nuff said...
                      Last edited by Topcat; 03-14-2019, 06:43 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Topcat View Post

                        Well said, Roo. I agree with your comments, and will add this: 40 years ago, I had a bad alcohol and drug problem; I had problems holding down a job; I felt that life was hopeless. Then, in Easter week of 1979, I saw the "Jesus of Nazareth" multi-part TV movie, the Franco Zeferelli version, starring Robert Powell as Jesus. IMHO, this is the finest version of Jesus's life ever produced. I directly attribute this film as the starting point which led, three years later, to a total transformation of my life. We can argue about doctrine and/or why did the disciples do this or that, or Israel, etc. all day long, but the bottom line is that God can change your life for the better, IF you allow him to. 'Nuff said...
                        I think ive seen that movie around 5 times. Its epic.

                        Comment

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