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  • #61
    Originally posted by like54ninjas View Post

    I have seen no good reason to believe any of the magic in any holy book. The bible is not just the NT but the OT. It is the OT too and jesus said “ in the NT......
    Matthew 5:17-20 English Standard Version (ESV)

    Christ Came to Fulfill the Law
    17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.”

    I don't believe in Harry Potter, Voldemort, Santa, zues, god, jesus (other than friend's with that first name), allah, odin, etc.

    I get it. You believe in the good parts of the bible and choose to ignore, refute, or deny the horrid things in it. I get it. Most believers do the same or simply haven't read their books throughly. There are many good things written in the bible but they can be replicated without the religious dogma.

    The case you raise in your last sentence is called Pascal's wager. It is a logical fallacy. "What if you're wrong and I'm right?"
    What makes you think your religion is correct and the thousands of others are incorrect? Your book? They have books too.
    Ancient books written by people who had very limited understanding of how the natural world/universe works. They couldn't explain lightning so Zues. Rudimentary early governments used religion to control the masses like herding sheep.
    It is significantly more likely that all religions are wrong.

    Im often asked by religious friends or people I've debated religion with....."what would it take to me a believer?"
    My answer has always been " I have no idea but an omnipotent loving god that wants the best for me would know and yet he has done nothing yet."
    If god exists and wants me to believe he'll figure it out.

    Hearing audible voices in your head, that only you hear, is a major sign of mental illness.
    Think David Koresh.
    You're wrong about one thing - I believe all of the Bible, even the parts that defy logic, because I believe with God all things are possible.

    The OT and the NT also represent different covenants with God. Jesus came to teach the new covenant.


    You are a lost cause for having faith in God but you are a good Bolt fan so I give you credit for that.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by chargeroo View Post
      You're wrong about one thing - I believe all of the Bible, even the parts that defy logic, because I believe with God all things are possible.

      The OT and the NT also represent different covenants with God. Jesus came to teach the new covenant.


      You are a lost cause for having faith in God but you are a good Bolt fan so I give you credit for that.
      Roo we may not agree on this subject but I hold you in the highest regard as a human being and a devout Bolt SuperFan.
      2019 Adopt - A - Bolt

      KYZIR WHITE

      CORTEZ BROUGHTON

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      • #63
        Originally posted by chargeroo View Post
        Even though the Bible does not contain the exact words "the written Word stands alone, apart from tradition, as our sole authority for faith and practice," that principle is found throughout. The Old Testament writers, Jesus, and the apostles consistently turn to the Scriptures as their measuring stick and commend the same standard to all. In fact Jesus taught against "tradition".
        Check this out from 2 Thessalonians 2:

        So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by PMR9FAN View Post

          Check this out from 2 Thessalonians 2:

          So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.
          The Bible recognizes that traditions can be a dangerous feature of religious systems (Matthew 15:2-3) or the traditions of man (Colossians 2:8). But Paul has in mind the apostolic traditions preserved for us in the record of the New Testament.

          ii. "The word paradoseis, from which we render tradition, signifies anything delivered in the way of teaching; and here most obviously means the doctrines delivered by the apostle to the Thessalonians; whether in his preaching, private conversation, or by these letters."

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          • #65
            Originally posted by chargeroo View Post
            The Bible recognizes that traditions can be a dangerous feature of religious systems (Matthew 15:2-3) or the traditions of man (Colossians 2:8). But Paul has in mind the apostolic traditions preserved for us in the record of the New Testament.

            ii. "The word paradoseis, from which we render tradition, signifies anything delivered in the way of teaching; and here most obviously means the doctrines delivered by the apostle to the Thessalonians; whether in his preaching, private conversation, or by these letters."
            We are in agreement that Paul is referring to apostolic tradition.

            But you added something that is outside the Bible and that Paul did not say when you stated "preserved for us in the record of the NT". Paul said to hold to tradition by word of mouth as well. Not just that which is written.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by PMR9FAN View Post

              We are in agreement that Paul is referring to apostolic tradition.

              But you added something that is outside the Bible and that Paul did not say when you stated "preserved for us in the record of the NT". Paul said to hold to tradition by word of mouth as well. Not just that which is written.
              I simply meant the traditions of the apostles are recorded in the NT.
              Jesus spoke out about traditions that are not biblical. (Matthew 15:3)
              Last edited by chargeroo; 09-07-2019, 07:10 AM.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by chargeroo View Post
                I simply meant the traditions of the apostles are recorded in the NT.
                Jesus spoke out about traditions that are not biblical. (Matthew 15:3)
                Jesus did not condemn apostolic traditions that are handed down orally. He couldn't because this would contradict the inspired word of God in 2 Thessalonians 2. See more here: https://www.catholic.com/tract/scripture-and-tradition.

                Question: How can you accept the NT to be authoritative without first accepting the authority of the entity that gave us the NT?

                Check this out from Henry Graham's Where We Got the Bible:

                " ... at all events in regard to the New Testament, the Reformers left the books as they found them, and today their Testament contains exactly the same books as ours, and what I wish to drive home, is that they got these books from Rome, that without the Roman Catholic Church they would not have got them, and that the decrees of Carthage, 397 and 419, when all Christianity was Roman Catholic - reaffirmed by the Council of Florence, 1442, under Pope Eugenius IV and the Council of Trent, 1546 - these decrees of the Roman Church and these only are the means and the channel and the authority which Almighty God has used to hand down to us his written Word. Who can deny it? The Church existed before the Bible, she made the Bible, she selected its books and she preserved it. She handed it down; through her we know what is the Word of God and what the word of man, and hence to try at this time of day, as many do, to overthrow the Church by the means of this very Bible, and to put it above the Church, and to revile her for destroying it and corrupting it - what is this but to strike the mother that reared them, to curse the hand that fed them, to turn against their best friend and benefactor, and to repay with ingratitude and slander the very guide and protector who has led them to drink of the water out of the Savior's fountains?"

                Pretty strong words, but he does have a point, don't you think?

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                • #68
                  Interested in everyone/anyone's thoughts on the hypothesis presented.....

                  2019 Adopt - A - Bolt

                  KYZIR WHITE

                  CORTEZ BROUGHTON

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