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  • #85
    Originally posted by like54ninjas View Post

    I must admit I found Sproul’s usage of an acknowledged fairytale to rationalize another fairytale quite amusing.

    So our freewill is a decision making system of our brains that is inclined to our strongest learned moral identity? True. I don’t disagree with that. I’d go further and state that all our decisions come from the chemical reactions in the brain. No matter how rational or irrational. I disagree about his ideology of inherent human sin as sin is a fictional concept.

    Questions....
    If god were to manifest himself to humanity, give a demonstration of his unlimited power, or whatever it would take to ensure 1 human or the entire planet’s population knew he existed.
    Would each individual have the freewill to reject him as an entity to be followed, obeyed, and worshipped?
    Do you, as Sproul did, believe in biblical inerrancy?
    If so, what answers do you give for the vast inconsistencies, immoral laws/commandments, historical and scientific errors, and horrific atrocities that are in the perfect word of god?


    clip is some of, not all, inconsistencies stated in the bible.
    You asked - "If god were to manifest himself to humanity, give a demonstration of his unlimited power, or whatever it would take to ensure 1 human or the entire planet’s population knew he existed.
    Would each individual have the freewill to reject him as an entity to be followed, obeyed, and worshipped?"

    I don't think it would take away free will if God did that. It's my belief that God gave us free will so only those who believe will get to spend eternity with him on the new Earth.

    Do you, as Sproul did, believe in biblical inerrancy? - Yes

    If so, what answers do you give for the vast inconsistencies, immoral laws/commandments, historical and scientific errors, and horrific atrocities that are in the perfect word of god?

    That's a pretty broad question/statement. - A broad answer is found in Isaiah 55:8 - “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the Lord.
    That goes back to what I said earlier - I do not have a mind that can understand God's mind. I'm content to take him at his word.

    I find it interesting that you say the commandments are not moral.
    Doesn't that put you above God? What commandments would you write?

    I myself have wondered and been troubled by the atrocities of the OT.
    One you mentioned in an earlier post was why did the Bible seem to condone slavery? - My answer is that the slavery we read about in the Bible is not like the slavery we usually think of. The people that were slaves back then sold themselves into slavery for a seven year period. At the end of that period they were free to walk away or sign up for seven more years. So, it's more akin to what we call servants now.

    Also please understand that the Bible does not approve of everything it records. Some of the things reported in the Bible were not approved by God.
    For instance, some terrible things like rape and revenge are found in Judges 19/20 but nowhere does it say this is approved.

    You mentioned you were expecting snow - where are you that you expect snow? Wherever it is - consider moving. It's 83 right now on the beautiful island of Maui.

    Comment


    • #86
      I find that the things atheists call atrocities are the mass killings of places/people like in the story of Sodom. But, in each of the stories like that the people God ordered killed were living totally immoral lives.

      Comment


      • #87
        This seems like the appropriate thread to say Merry Christmas to all. Remember, we celebrate this day because of the birth of Christ, our Lord and Savior.

        Comment


        • #88
          Originally posted by chargeroo View Post
          This seems like the appropriate thread to say Merry Christmas to all. Remember, we celebrate this day because of the birth of Christ, our Lord and Savior.
          Happy Xmas Roo. I will get to my reply on yours you left a bit ago soon, didn’t want to during the holidays.
          You know we disagree on religiosity but Xmas was/is hardly ever about baby jesus.

          http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-unex...as-traditions/



          https://www.livescience.com/25779-christmas-traditions-history-paganism.html





          Pre Combine & FA
          #6) TUA TAGOVAILOA (QB) BAMA
          #37) **trade w/cowgirls for #51 & #82
          #51) BRANDON AIYUK (WR) ASU
          #71) LUCAS NIANG (OT) TCU
          #82) DAMON ARNETTE (CB) OHSU
          #109) ANTONIO GIBSON (RB/WRS) MEMPHIS
          #151) JEREMY CHINN (FS/DLB) SIU
          #186) DONELL STANLEY (OC/OG) USC
          #220) STEPHEN SULLIVAN (TE) LSU

          Comment


          • #89
            Originally posted by chargeroo View Post
            This seems like the appropriate thread to say Merry Christmas to all. Remember, we celebrate this day because of the birth of Christ, our Lord and Savior.
            Merry Christmas Sir.
            Justin Herbert
            Ross Blacklock
            Ezra Cleveland
            Adam Trautman
            Dane Jackson
            Joe Reed
            Kevin Dotson
            Keep: MG, EK, HH, AP ...UFAs: GGlasgow, JSchobert, BBreeland

            Comment


            • #90
              Originally posted by chargeroo View Post
              This seems like the appropriate thread to say Merry Christmas to all. Remember, we celebrate this day because of the birth of Christ, our Lord and Savior.
              Christmas is actually pagan. This isn't to single Christmas out. Holidays in general have ties to paganism and roots of the occult.

              The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist. Making people think that this whole thing about God/Jesus is not real either or lame and a fairy tale. Second Corinthians says to not be ignorant of Satan's devices.

              Comment


              • #91
                Originally posted by ChargersPowderBlue View Post

                Christmas is actually pagan. This isn't to single Christmas out. Holidays in general have ties to paganism and roots of the occult.

                The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist. Making people think that this whole thing about God/Jesus is not real either or lame and a fairy tale. Second Corinthians says to not be ignorant of Satan's devices.
                Devil = Keyser Soze

                or as the current president says “two corinthians”
                Pre Combine & FA
                #6) TUA TAGOVAILOA (QB) BAMA
                #37) **trade w/cowgirls for #51 & #82
                #51) BRANDON AIYUK (WR) ASU
                #71) LUCAS NIANG (OT) TCU
                #82) DAMON ARNETTE (CB) OHSU
                #109) ANTONIO GIBSON (RB/WRS) MEMPHIS
                #151) JEREMY CHINN (FS/DLB) SIU
                #186) DONELL STANLEY (OC/OG) USC
                #220) STEPHEN SULLIVAN (TE) LSU

                Comment


                • #92
                  “two corinthians” and a partridge in a pear tree.

                  Comment


                  • #93
                    Originally posted by chargeroo View Post
                    You asked - "If god were to manifest himself to humanity, give a demonstration of his unlimited power, or whatever it would take to ensure 1 human or the entire planet’s population knew he existed.
                    Would each individual have the freewill to reject him as an entity to be followed, obeyed, and worshipped?"

                    I don't think it would take away free will if God did that. It's my belief that God gave us free will so only those who believe will get to spend eternity with him on the new Earth.

                    Do you, as Sproul did, believe in biblical inerrancy? - Yes

                    If so, what answers do you give for the vast inconsistencies, immoral laws/commandments, historical and scientific errors, and horrific atrocities that are in the perfect word of god?

                    That's a pretty broad question/statement. - A broad answer is found in Isaiah 55:8 - “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the Lord.
                    That goes back to what I said earlier - I do not have a mind that can understand God's mind. I'm content to take him at his word.

                    I find it interesting that you say the commandments are not moral.
                    Doesn't that put you above God? What commandments would you write?

                    I myself have wondered and been troubled by the atrocities of the OT.
                    One you mentioned in an earlier post was why did the Bible seem to condone slavery? - My answer is that the slavery we read about in the Bible is not like the slavery we usually think of. The people that were slaves back then sold themselves into slavery for a seven year period. At the end of that period they were free to walk away or sign up for seven more years. So, it's more akin to what we call servants now.

                    Also please understand that the Bible does not approve of everything it records. Some of the things reported in the Bible were not approved by God.
                    For instance, some terrible things like rape and revenge are found in Judges 19/20 but nowhere does it say this is approved.

                    You mentioned you were expecting snow - where are you that you expect snow? Wherever it is - consider moving. It's 83 right now on the beautiful island of Maui.
                    Roo

                    I hope you and your family had a great holiday season and new year.
                    Loads to talk about this offseason football wise and would like to pick up our discussion.
                    So here I go.

                    Do you, as Sproul did, believe in biblical inerrancy? - Yes

                    If so, what answers do you give for the vast inconsistencies, immoral laws/commandments, historical and scientific errors, and horrific atrocities that are in the perfect word of god?

                    That's a pretty broad question/statement. - A broad answer is found in Isaiah 55:8 - “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the Lord.
                    That goes back to what I said earlier - I do not have a mind that can understand God's mind. I'm content to take him at his word.

                    I find it interesting that you say the commandments are not moral.
                    Doesn't that put you above God? What commandments would you write?
                    You take god at his word? Why, when so much of his “words” and “actions” are vile?
                    Approve of his mass worldwide murder of the flood?
                    Approve of the genocides, forced enslavement, and the “taking” of virgins your god instructed the Israelites to commit upon their geographic neighbors?
                    Do you stone homosexuals, non-believers, or unruly children?
                    Do you follow the laws of Leviticus?

                    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Leviticus

                    You mentioned slavery in the OT as “indentured servitude” which is somewhat correct for Jewish individuals ONLY. God instructs you to “buy slaves from the heathen about you”, gives instructions on the treatment of slaves, states they are “your money and property”, and even allows you to beat them.
                    Do you own, keep, buy, trade, and pass slaves down heretically as property?
                    Will you force your daughter to marry her rapist? Remember the rapist must agree but you make your daughter’s decision.
                    Are women supposed to be subservient, silent, property, and to hold no positions of authority?

                    Are any of these things above moral?
                    If not, how do your believe in, worship, and obey such a immoral, awful, unjust, creepy, vengeful, and violent genocidel maniac?
                    His ways are absolutely not my ways.

                    I would not write “commandments”. Representative Secular Democracy would be my choice.



                    Like so much of literature the bible has numerous plot holes. The entire premise of the story is predicated on the main character ignoring his own issues and shifting blame. The characters of Adam & Eve are scapegoated by the Yahweh character for his shortcoming, not theirs. The Yahweh character claims to be all knowing yet constantly acts like he doesnt know jack. The opening of the foundational plot plays out so the Yahweh character appears ignorant of knowing that his own servant, the talking serpent character, is going to show up and manipulate the Eve character.

                    Who " allowed " the serpent into the garden of Eden????
                    Why has “magic” stop being done by god, jesus, and the hs?
                    When is knowledge a bad thing?

                    The narrative shows that Adam and Eve are innocent. Innocent in their case also means naive, lacking knowledge and awareness. And until they eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil they remain innocent and ignorant. They didnt know anything about right or wrong; good or evil. So this Yahweh character is projecting attributes that are not present in the Adam & Eve characters and then punishing them for it. The bibles plot is deeply flawed. As is its main character Yahweh. None of this is surprising. Since its just a book written by ancient authors.

                    Whats surprising is that people still believe its more than just another old story and try to push its bizarro beliefs onto others.
                    Last edited by like54ninjas; 02-06-2020, 07:54 AM. Reason: Spelling/wording
                    Pre Combine & FA
                    #6) TUA TAGOVAILOA (QB) BAMA
                    #37) **trade w/cowgirls for #51 & #82
                    #51) BRANDON AIYUK (WR) ASU
                    #71) LUCAS NIANG (OT) TCU
                    #82) DAMON ARNETTE (CB) OHSU
                    #109) ANTONIO GIBSON (RB/WRS) MEMPHIS
                    #151) JEREMY CHINN (FS/DLB) SIU
                    #186) DONELL STANLEY (OC/OG) USC
                    #220) STEPHEN SULLIVAN (TE) LSU

                    Comment


                    • #94

                      I can’t abide calling God a “character”. You blaspheme the Lord and ignore the teaching of Jesus. In the book of Matthew (10:14) Jesus instructs us to “shake the dust off your feet” when people refuse to hear the truth.. “shake the dust off your feet” is the same as today’s saying “wash your hands of them”


                      There are situations in our lives where God calls us to stand firm, proclaim truth, and give patient testimony. Sometimes we need to continue until we see the results of that testimony. Other times God gives us the freedom to move on. We figuratively “shake the dust off our feet” when, under the Holy Spirit’s direction, we surrender those people to the Lord and emotionally let go.

                      I believe I have reached that point in your case. I tried to tell you the truth of the Bible but you refuse to here the truth. You have a closed mind and a hardened heart. I won’t be spending my time discussing my faith with you anymore. I enjoy your football takes but your beliefs are terrible to me.

                      Comment


                      • #95
                        Originally posted by chargeroo View Post
                        I can’t abide calling God a “character”. You blaspheme the Lord and ignore the teaching of Jesus. In the book of Matthew (10:14) Jesus instructs us to “shake the dust off your feet” when people refuse to hear the truth.. “shake the dust off your feet” is the same as today’s saying “wash your hands of them”


                        There are situations in our lives where God calls us to stand firm, proclaim truth, and give patient testimony. Sometimes we need to continue until we see the results of that testimony. Other times God gives us the freedom to move on. We figuratively “shake the dust off our feet” when, under the Holy Spirit’s direction, we surrender those people to the Lord and emotionally let go.

                        I believe I have reached that point in your case. I tried to tell you the truth of the Bible but you refuse to here the truth. You have a closed mind and a hardened heart. I won’t be spending my time discussing my faith with you anymore. I enjoy your football takes but your beliefs are terrible to me.
                        Roo,

                        It is absolutely your choice to end our discussion/debate/discourse on religious doctrines, christianity in general. As you and your bible say “shake the dust off your feet”. My redneck friend’s and I say “shake the dew of your Willy”. Same basic thought pattern.

                        I do take issue with your points that “I(you) tried to tell you(me) the truth of the bible but you(me) refuse to hear the truth” and “You(me) have a closed mind and a hardened heart.”
                        Truth? What truth? What and WHY do you consider to be the truth? How do I/anyone know/research/test this truth?
                        Do you have any evidence to show this truth actually to be true? Of course not, or you would have presented it already.

                        So how do you make the assertions that I possess a “closed mind and hardened heart”?
                        When looking from an objective, reasonable, subject knowledge, and sane perspective, who is closed minded/possess a hardened heart? You have the correct answer to religion/origin/meaning of life without the possibility of be wrong?
                        I know it is exceptionally difficult for the religious to justify and provide compelling evidence for their beliefs regardless of the religious doctrine. When you/anyone are able to produce demonstrable facts, sound logic, and actual EVIDENCE (not the emotions, personal experience, stories in an old book, special pleading, or faith/gullibility) to justify/explain your supernatural beliefs, I’m willing to be shown that truth.

                        I enjoy your football takes as well. Your knowledge and takes are high bar.
                        Your religious beliefs trouble me because people use those beliefs in making actual real world decisions that affect the world/people that exist. Remember you, I, and everyone else are all atheists. I simply go 1 god further than the 1000+ gods you refute.

                        What does god command be done to me for blasphemy? Is it Moral? Appropriate for the infraction? Provides justice to whom?

                        P.S. (For any christian). Since you brought up a “hardened heart “.......
                        Did god violate Pharaoh’s free will, when he hardened Pharaoh’s heart to continue the plagues god committed on the Egyptians (who are also supposed to be created in his image)?
                        Last edited by like54ninjas; 02-14-2020, 09:58 AM. Reason: spelling, grammar, wording
                        Pre Combine & FA
                        #6) TUA TAGOVAILOA (QB) BAMA
                        #37) **trade w/cowgirls for #51 & #82
                        #51) BRANDON AIYUK (WR) ASU
                        #71) LUCAS NIANG (OT) TCU
                        #82) DAMON ARNETTE (CB) OHSU
                        #109) ANTONIO GIBSON (RB/WRS) MEMPHIS
                        #151) JEREMY CHINN (FS/DLB) SIU
                        #186) DONELL STANLEY (OC/OG) USC
                        #220) STEPHEN SULLIVAN (TE) LSU

                        Comment

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