And With The 5th Pick Of The NFL Draft Chargers Select....Discussion

[Boltinloudguy]

Trade back as far as pick 11, maybe trade back twice. They need as many picks as possible.

if they can get a couple extra picks on day 2 and still get a player like Kool-Aid, I’m all for it.

[Steve]

We need to get plenty of weapons for Herbert. Can a single top 5WR get open against NFL defenses when they can afford to double that top WR play after play? History suggests that it won't work that well.

That being said, if you want to get a guy who can step in immediately and has top end tools (especially speed), than drafting high is probably the best way to get them. The probability of getting a great player in the late rounds isn't zero, but it is lower and lower as you go through the draft.

If the Chargers are going to be successful next year, it is going to be mostly due to the new coach coming in and developing younger players who are already on the roster. If you look at the rapid turnarounds (worst to first), that is usually how it is done. Not to say that you don't add some key players here and there, but football teams are too big to rely (exclusively) on draft picks and UFA.

[Boltnut]

Trade back as far as pick 11, maybe trade back twice. They need as many picks as possible.

if they can get a couple extra picks on day 2 and still get a player like Kool-Aid, I’m all for it.

I drink the Kool-Aid, so I'm up for this plan.
IMO, Atlanta is the logical trade partner. They sit at #8 (behind QB hungry teams Tennessee and NYG).

According to the NFL Trade Value Chart:
#5 pick = 1700 points (Chargers)
#8 pick = 1400 points (Falcons)
#74 pick = 220 points (Falcons)
#110 pick = 74 points (Falcons)

Of course, the Giants could use a CB too.
Most everybody assumes that 2 QB's are gone by #5 (Williams and May)... so extrapolate that out to #8. Also assume that Falcons trade up for QB#3.
#1 Marvin Harrison Jr.
#2 Joe Alt
#3 Fanashu
#4 Bowers...? I would never go TE in the Top-8. But everyone else seems to think Bowers is worth it.

[northerner]

We need to get plenty of weapons for Herbert. Can a single top 5WR get open against NFL defenses when they can afford to double that top WR play after play? History suggests that it won't work that well.

That being said, if you want to get a guy who can step in immediately and has top end tools (especially speed), than drafting high is probably the best way to get them. The probability of getting a great player in the late rounds isn't zero, but it is lower and lower as you go through the draft.

If the Chargers are going to be successful next year, it is going to be mostly due to the new coach coming in and developing younger players who are already on the roster. If you look at the rapid turnarounds (worst to first), that is usually how it is done. Not to say that you don't add some key players here and there, but football teams are too big to rely (exclusively) on draft picks and UFA.

it is a tough call. however, someone like Nabers could make the rest of the WR and TE crew suddenly go hog wild on the remaining DB's.

we have a 3-way fork in the road: the Nabers/Bowers option, the LT option, and the trade back option (and then WR, LT/RT or even DL / DB). All are good strategies.

It is about making the right pick (and if we trade back, hoping that our targeted guys don't get taken).

I personally like taking the blue chipper at #5. we are always going to have 2nd and 3rd round picks, but the #5 pick is a rare spot that we hopefully will not see again for a long time.

[Boltinloudguy]

I drink the Kool-Aid, so I'm up for this plan.
IMO, Atlanta is the logical trade partner. They sit at #8 (behind QB hungry teams Tennessee and NYG).

According to the NFL Trade Value Chart:
#5 pick = 1700 points (Chargers)
#8 pick = 1400 points (Falcons)
#74 pick = 220 points (Falcons)
#110 pick = 74 points (Falcons)

Of course, the Giants could use a CB too.
Most everybody assumes that 2 QB's are gone by #5 (Williams and May)... so extrapolate that out to #8. Also assume that Falcons trade up for QB#3.
#1 Marvin Harrison Jr.
#2 Joe Alt
#3 Fanashu
#4 Bowers...? I would never go TE in the Top-8. But everyone else seems to think Bowers is worth it.

If The Vikings want to come up to 8, they could then trade back and get picks 12,109 and 129 according to the value chart. So in total, that’s a 3rd and three 4ths by moving back 7 spots. On top of trying to get any picks for any of the big 4 they might try to trade. I think with this new regime coming in, they could do real damage with those picks. Especially if it’s Cunningham or Hortiz.

MW will be the toughest IMO coming off a knee injury. But I’d give Detroit a call. He’d fit perfectly with those WRs. They don’t have any big contested catch type WRs. I’d be happy with a 6th at this point because you know he’s gone anyways. I don’t think they have a 5th since they traded it for DPJ at the deadline. DPJ is actually a WR I’d like the Chargers to target in the offseason.

[NOrvMeNow]

Don't see what your point is. Mahomes and Stroud did just fine yesterday without a first-round wide receiver or tight end to throw to. We have Justin Herbert, whom many here put close to or better than Mahomes. If Mahomes and Stroud can do what they have been without any first-round wide receivers or tight ends, why can't Herbert?

Romeo Doubs, a fourth-round pick last April, just had six receptions for 151 yards and a touchdown, with Jordan Love throwing it to him. The Packers don't have a first-round pick on a wide receiver or tight end, either. They have six first-round picks on their defense, though.

You got it wrong in reverse.

Your no first round receivers did well on Saturday because Mahomes and Stroud were throwing them the football, not the other way around.
Put Dobbs and Rice on Miami/Cleveland, and they wouldn't have done much.

Mahomes has Andy Reid; Herbert had Moore, with the incompetent Staley breathing down his neck.
Mahomes and Stroud play behind Olines who have some conception of picking up blitzes.

When Herbert had Steichen, suddenly T-billy and Guyton were productive.
When Herbert had a competent Oline coach in Smith,
suddenly Herbert had time on 3rd / 4rth down plays, instead of a free blitzer teeing off.
Herbert made a lot of hay on 3rd/4rth downs in 2021, which made Lombo look competent.

There is a lot more to the equation than why can't a qb perform with 2nd rate receivers, if others can.
By this point, I have no idea what your intentions were when you posted.
Many have an agenda, but attempt to feign being objective when they post.

You seem to be pushing the narrative that the Chargers should draft Olinemen,
because decent receivers can be productive.

I'm not disagreeing with that, but where would Cincy be without Chase?
And would they take Sewell in a redraft?

[NOrvMeNow]

it is a tough call. however, someone like Nabers could make the rest of the WR and TE crew suddenly go hog wild on the remaining DB's.

we have a 3-way fork in the road: the Nabers/Bowers option, the LT option, and the trade back option (and then WR, LT/RT or even DL / DB). All are good strategies.

It is about making the right pick (and if we trade back, hoping that our targeted guys don't get taken).

I personally like taking the blue chipper at #5. we are always going to have 2nd and 3rd round picks, but the #5 pick is a rare spot that we hopefully will not see again for a long time.

The first pick will only be part of the solution.
A Jonathon Ogden/ Reggie White /Jerry Rice will probably not be waiting for them at #5.

I'd like the Nabers pick primarily because it would be the first time they drafted someone to match Herbert's skills.
Telesco and his merry crew seemed to think they were still drafting for P.R..

[Bolt4Knob]

Trade back as far as pick 11, maybe trade back twice. They need as many picks as possible.

if they can get a couple extra picks on day 2 and still get a player like Kool-Aid, I’m all for it.

For me, unless its Bowers, I am trading back. And even that, I think its wiser to get multiple players than one player. WR depth is pretty strong. Can probably still get a very good WR between 8 and 11. The TE drop off is much deeper but its about building a team - not one player

Chargers need to have around 10 draft picks - and that means at least 7 in the first 5 rounds, preferably 8 by Round 5; 6 by Round 4. Plus if say you can get a 2nd and 4th for moving back, you still take that other 2nd and move back for another 4th or 5. Chargers need to start playing the game. Telesco was playing pocket pool with himself while other GMs were understanding how it works

Granted, if the Chargers get Bowers - won't complain. But today, its Bowers or trade back

[Boltnut]

If The Vikings want to come up to 8, they could then trade back and get picks 12,109 and 129 according to the value chart. So in total, that’s a 3rd and three 4ths by moving back 7 spots. On top of trying to get any picks for any of the big 4 they might try to trade. I think with this new regime coming in, they could do real damage with those picks. Especially if it’s Cunningham or Hortiz.

MW will be the toughest IMO coming off a knee injury. But I’d give Detroit a call. He’d fit perfectly with those WRs. They don’t have any big contested catch type WRs. I’d be happy with a 6th at this point because you know he’s gone anyways. I don’t think they have a 5th since they traded it for DPJ at the deadline. DPJ is actually a WR I’d like the Chargers to target in the offseason.

Trading back makes lots of sense. It's something TT never did. It's why we had no depth. I hope this aspect changes.
When I was looking at the Atlanta trade, I also noticed they had a lack of depth @WR. They have Drake London, Kyle Pitts, and Bijan Robinson. Imagine if they had a QB and a #2 WR... they wouldn't be the #26 scoring offense anymore. Offer Mike up for another pick (5th round) or a player. Build it into the deal.

[DerwinBosa]

You got it wrong in reverse.

Your no first round receivers did well on Saturday because Mahomes and Stroud were throwing them the football, not the other way around.
Put Dobbs and Rice on Miami/Cleveland, and they wouldn't have done much.

Mahomes has Andy Reid; Herbert had Moore, with the incompetent Staley breathing down his neck.
Mahomes and Stroud play behind Olines who have some conception of picking up blitzes.

When Herbert had Steichen, suddenly T-billy and Guyton were productive.
When Herbert had a competent Oline coach in Smith,
suddenly Herbert had time on 3rd / 4rth down plays, instead of a free blitzer teeing off.
Herbert made a lot of hay on 3rd/4rth downs in 2021, which made Lombo look competent.

There is a lot more to the equation than why can't a qb perform with 2nd rate receivers, if others can.
By this point, I have no idea what your intentions were when you posted.
Many have an agenda, but attempt to feign being objective when they post.

You seem to be pushing the narrative that the Chargers should draft Olinemen,
because decent receivers can be productive.

I'm not disagreeing with that, but where would Cincy be without Chase?
And would they take Sewell in a redraft?

And we have Justin Herbert and hopefully will have Jim Harbaugh. That's my point. Herbert should be good enough to make a receiver such as Doubs or the others who had great games this weekend make plays. It's more important to have (and much harder to find) a player who can help protect him better or a defensive player who can help make the other elite quarterbacks struggle against us.

Ja'Marr Chase was certainly worth the fifth pick in the draft. He looks to be a future Hall of Famer. I doubt the Lions would trade Penei Sewell for him, though, especially when their fourth-round wide receiver, Amon-Ra St. Brown, had 119 receptions for 1,515 yards and 10 touchdowns this season (and seven catches for 110 yards yesterday) with Jared Goff throwing him the football. Meanwhile Detroit's first-round wide receiver, Jameson Williams, caught two passes for 19 yards yesterday. I doubt the 49ers would trade Nick Bosa for Chase, either.

If we draft Malik Nabers, he better be a Ja'Marr Chase type. If you can't recognize how it's much more common to get a #1 receiver in the second round or beyond than it is to find a Penei Sewell or Nick Bosa, then I guess you haven't been paying attention lately--Davante Adams (second round), A.J. Brown (second round), D.K. Metcalf (second round), Cooper Kupp (third round), Stefon Diggs (fifth round), Keenan Allen (third round), Amon-Ra St. Brown (fourth round), Puka Nucua (fifth round), Tyreek Hill (fifth round), and Deebo Samuel (second round). Even Justin Jefferson, Brandon Aiyuk, and Ceedee Lamb (who didn't have nearly as good of a game as Romeo Doubs or Puka Nucua did this weekend) weren't drafted in the top fifteen, let alone five.

[gzubeck]

We need to get plenty of weapons for Herbert. Can a single top 5WR get open against NFL defenses when they can afford to double that top WR play after play? History suggests that it won't work that well.

That being said, if you want to get a guy who can step in immediately and has top end tools (especially speed), than drafting high is probably the best way to get them. The probability of getting a great player in the late rounds isn't zero, but it is lower and lower as you go through the draft.

If the Chargers are going to be successful next year, it is going to be mostly due to the new coach coming in and developing younger players who are already on the roster. If you look at the rapid turnarounds (worst to first), that is usually how it is done. Not to say that you don't add some key players here and there, but football teams are too big to rely (exclusively) on draft picks and UFA.

The top two receivers in this years draft are Game Changers...how often do you get a chance at Game Changing WRs in the NFL. Nabers caught passes at the college level against double teams and MH2 is just a monster player who dominates single coverages like a champ. So unless someone is giving us a boatload of picks or just have us move down a spot or two and still get em well, get em when you can.

[gzubeck]

And we have Justin Herbert and hopefully will have Jim Harbaugh. That's my point. Herbert should be good enough to make a receiver such as Doubs or the others who had great games this weekend make plays. It's more important to have (and much harder to find) a player who can help protect him better or a defensive player who can help make the other elite quarterbacks struggle against us.

Ja'Marr Chase was certainly worth the fifth pick in the draft. He looks to be a future Hall of Famer. I doubt the Lions would trade Penei Sewell for him, though, especially when their fourth-round wide receiver, Amon-Ra St. Brown, had 119 receptions for 1,515 yards and 10 touchdowns this season (and seven catches for 110 yards yesterday) with Jared Goff throwing him the football. Meanwhile Detroit's first-round wide receiver, Jameson Williams, caught two passes for 19 yards yesterday. I doubt the 49ers would trade Nick Bosa for Chase, either.

If we draft Malik Nabers, he better be a Ja'Marr Chase type. If you can't recognize how it's much more common to get a #1 receiver in the second round or beyond than it is to find a Penei Sewell or Nick Bosa, then I guess you haven't been paying attention lately--Davante Adams (second round), A.J. Brown (second round), D.K. Metcalf (second round), Cooper Kupp (third round), Stefon Diggs (fifth round), Keenan Allen (third round), Amon-Ra St. Brown (fourth round), Puka Nucua (fifth round), Tyreek Hill (fifth round), and Deebo Samuel (second round). Even Justin Jefferson, Brandon Aiyuk, and Ceedee Lamb (who didn't have nearly as good of a game as Romeo Doubs or Puka Nucua did this weekend) weren't drafted in the top fifteen, let alone five.

I have no problem believing he's a #1 receiver in the NFL. Puka didn't help the Rams win their playoff game and actually think Palmer is a better receiver. When Mike went down so did our offense...We have a problem...