And With The 5th Pick Of The NFL Draft Chargers Select....Discussion

[Chargers8491]

don't know so much 'bout Murphy, but really think that pass catcher/DB is just more Chargers football, and.... still harken back to our SB run.... we had a defense.... you could not run on us.

Laiatu & Jer'Zhan have had the lead (for me) for most of this draft season, and.... no one had Byron Murphy coming out, and.... now he has.

if we draft back 2 back Texas tackles.... won't be shedding any tears.

I have my personal favorites but honestly, I don't really care as long as they don't go off the reservation.

[el_jefe999]

If we trade back to 8-12 we still get one of the premiere players in an area of need. I’m really hoping for a press conference Monday introducing Harbaugh and Dobbs which will change course to focusing on the trenches

[dmac_bolt]

The more I think about the roster and potential pick5 value, I am interested in fielding trade down offers. IF we stay within Top10 we can get a day 1 starter and pick up maybe 2 more picks Day 2 / early day3? More?

We need more bread and butter for our 2024 feast …

[el_jefe999]

It depends on the partner and position but it’s at least a high end one a two or one and multiple two and threes. Given our cap sitch we will prioritize this year vs more value in the future

[beachcomber]

have a sneaking suspicion that Byron Murphy might be the only All Pro outta the bunch.... ??

think the Pro Bowlers are the likes of Malik Nabers, Laiatu Latu, Kool Aid, Taliese Fuaga.... ??

think that might be the first round cluster.... DT, WR, ED, CB, RT ??

[beachcomber]

Byron Murphy II

Screenshot 2024-01-20 233712.png

will see if he holds value (Jeremiah has him @11 in his opening mock), or if this guy is not all that.... am not sure quite yet, and as I like other's intangibles better, and.... don't want to pass on elite IDL talent.

good solo tackle rate, underclassman w/upside, PFF pass rush grade of 91.5, not a liability/above avg against the run, provides interior pass rush, gets into offensive backfield, misses a tackle or two due to lack of length, 3T for an even man front, Brugler calls him disruptive, All Academic Big 12, makes plays behind LOS, peoples knock him for his size but affords him leverage and ability to get under peoples pads, would benefit from true nose lined up next to him (cough/Sweat), invasive, tree trunks for legs, love these draftnik evals that compare him to Grady Jarrett, then award him a day two grade, Jarrett was an All Pro.

personal suspicion is that he turns out to be our version of Murphy's Law.... things just go wrong for offensive backfields when he's on the field/in the game.

[beachcomber]

more I think of it, the more I would like an ED/DT pass rusher.... WR/CB/TE are readily available day two in most drafts, or later in the first for subsequent years.... NT/IDL disruptors routinely are off the board by middle of the first, and even decent ones don't last much past early in the second.... that's where we are slotted this year.... that's my lean atm.

there is the consideration of going RT, OC, OG (Oregon State x2 + Cooper Beebe), as opposed to DT/ED, NT, LB (front 6/monsters of the midway).

think Staley/team Tommy John had the right idea in following Nutty's lead, in adding IDL in the form of AJ 'n SJD, and.... Otito 'n Matlock are day three guys, and.... prefer back 2 back IDL this go 'round.

[beachcomber]

@5 we are looking for an LT/Jr. level talent.... there might only be one in this draft ??

[Go Chargers go]

How many draft picks do we have and how many starting positions are open, without considering upgrades position. That will determine a trade down.

we are assuming we make Playoff air get close…..that means we would draft 15-22 next year.

If we let go the fab 4 - Bosa, Mack, Allen, MW - would we get 4 comp picks ? How much money is saved and left for FA and Draft picks.

so we could have 11 draft picks and a new HC with new staff.

that’s the definition of a full rebuild, and a lot of new players to teach.

I rather pick best player in our slots and keep 1or 2 of our fab 4 if price fits.

[Boltjolt]

How many draft picks do we have and how many starting positions are open, without considering upgrades position. That will determine a trade down.

we are assuming we make Playoff air get close…..that means we would draft 15-22 next year.

If we let go the fab 4 - Bosa, Mack, Allen, MW - would we get 4 comp picks ? How much money is saved and left for FA and Draft picks.

so we could have 11 draft picks and a new HC with new staff.

that’s the definition of a full rebuild, and a lot of new players to teach.

I rather pick best player in our slots and keep 1or 2 of our fab 4 if price fits.

Dont know any of that yet so its hard to say. The draft this season predicates on several possible things happening.

First, who our HC is going to be. If it Harbaugh, we could go more trench heavy but cant ignore other huge needs.

Second, who is staying and who is not. Another big indicator of what we have and have not.

Third, FA'cy. Doubt we are big players at all. May get a couple 2nd tier guys only.

As of today, TE is empty, CB is thin, LB is weak, OL needs better coaching and in need of a OC badly (FA), RB is sad, WR could ok or a need later.

[Boltjolt]

Byron Murphy II

Screenshot 2024-01-20 233712.png

will see if he holds value (Jeremiah has him @11 in his opening mock), or if this guy is not all that.... am not sure quite yet, and as I like other's intangibles better, and.... don't want to pass on elite IDL talent.

good solo tackle rate, underclassman w/upside, PFF pass rush grade of 91.5, not a liability/above avg against the run, provides interior pass rush, gets into offensive backfield, misses a tackle or two due to lack of length, 3T for an even man front, Brugler calls him disruptive, All Academic Big 12, makes plays behind LOS, peoples knock him for his size but affords him leverage and ability to get under peoples pads, would benefit from true nose lined up next to him (cough/Sweat), invasive, tree trunks for legs, love these draftnik evals that compare him to Grady Jarrett, then award him a day two grade, Jarrett was an All Pro.

personal suspicion is that he turns out to be our version of Murphy's Law.... things just go wrong for offensive backfields when he's on the field/in the game.

Interesting comment since Sweat IS next to him lol.

[Steve]

I can answer some of your questions at least pertaining to how I view things:



I don’t get why someone like Pipkins get the leash he gets. Johnson gets the leash because he’s still on a rookie contract. Salyer was very good last year and deserves another shot and Slater was good the year before. Imho Salyer and Slater should be our bookends and pipkins the swing tackle but pipkins is a very expensive swing tackle. on a side note I think changing blocking schemes could have negatively effected the line as well this year and next year it might again so here’s hoping…




That’s clearly a problem but the bigger problem in my opinion is that when hit in the backfield Ekeler and to a lesser extent Kelly can’t break a tackle and get a yard or two when it counts. Ekeler gets arm tackled too often to run between the tackles. He’s not meant to be that but we use him like that for some reason, maybe because we pay him like an every down back…

I’m critical of all the arm tackles Ekler gets rekt with between the tackles give him space and he’s a difference maker and can break tackles vs dbs and some linebackers but not vs 300 lb lineman.

If Ekeler came back at a market value deal and took on that gadget role that he does so well I would love him back on a 1-2 year deal but not for what I’m sure he’s going to demand.

On a side note maybe Lombardi understood the offensive pieces we had better than we thought. We have some Olineman who can’t run block and a pass catching back who can’t run between the tackles. So let’s pass 60+% of the time to maximize our effectiveness. It makes you wonder if he wasn’t a scape goat…


I agree with the TE needing weapons, right now no defense game plans for any of our TEs. We need someone who can make a team pay for mismatching them and Everett while solid is not that guy. I agree that it’s a deep WR class and I hope we trade back and get bowers and some ol and we help. But if that doesn’t happen the value of the draft spot is going to be OL and WR imho.

Pipkins gets more crap than other OL for several reasons. If you go through each game, judging players on what they do, every OL we had was making a fair number of mistakes. Slater somewhat less, but Johnson, Sayler and Clapp were all bad this year.

1). He has a history of making mistakes. Players develop at their own pace. Once a player develops to a point, you have to let those mistakes go and just evaluate them on the ones they are making. However, whoever plays RT for the Chargers seems to get much more crap than anyone else.

2). RT is much more visible than interior OL. That doesn't mean they are all bigger mistakes than the OG and C, who were just fucking awful this year, weren't catastrophic. Typically, when the post-game or game-day threads go on about stuff, the emphasis is on OT missing a block because they can see the pass rusher coming, yet a 3rd or 4th down run where the middle of the OL collapses isn't commented on much, if at all. However, all are major factors for a team that is losing close games.

3). The expectation seems to be that OT cannot make any mistakes concerning allowing pressure on the QB. However, there is a severe shortage of good OT, and could/can we afford two $20-25 M a year OT? To some degree, everyone is just going to have to get used to the idea that the RT is not going to be as good as Slater, who despite the down year is just not as good. Pipkins is the 16th highest-paid RT in terms of average per year. That makes him halfway through the pay scale. In an effective sense, because he is a year into his deal, he is in the bottom half. He is somewhat expensive for a swing OT, but I think most members of this board are not aware of how much OL, or at least that the only swing OT that are really worth what they are paid are the ones still on their rookie deals,or have pretty big warts (injury history, age ...).

4). Sayler got a lot of help from Herbert last season. A lot of times when Salyer got beat last season at OT, Herbert was getting rid of the ball quickly. A lot of the sacks Pipkins gives up, Herbert is holding the ball. I don't disagree that he should be allowed to compete and possibly win the OT job, I don't think it is a foregone conclusion that he would win. Pipkins is a better pass blocker overall, and they both suck run blocking (pick any season to compare for either).

IThe argument that a RB has to break a tackle in the backfield is nonsense. Running plays are supposed to give the RB a chance to get going. Zone runs give the RB a "landmark" where they have to make their 1st cut/decision about where to go. If they can't get to that landmark, it's the OL fault. Football is a team sport, the OL have to do their job and we don't have any OL who were even average this season. Yes, there will be some plays that a RB will get hit in the backfield, we can't prevent all running plays from being blown up, but for us it is the norm, and that is unacceptable. All our OL are part of the problem, as well as our TE and WR.

Our RB are going down easily because they aren't up to speed. I also think that to some degree, the RB are trying to minimize the loss. You go down, because if you fight too hard, and deliberately give up yardage to keep fighting, the forward progress gets reset further back (Roundtree used to do that a good bit). If the defenders are already in the backfield most of the time, we have already lost and you are splitting hairs. Try watching the Ravens OL, or the Lions running games. Both show how it should be done.

I am not sure that I agree with (not) taking Bowers makes that much sense. We do have needs at WR and OT, but the way Bowers can block at the point of attack, pull and lead, or just play like a classic FB, adds something that we really need. Kincaid was taken with the 25th pick and he is not nearly as good as Bowers, although he may have some more upside as a receiver. Looking at next years prospects there are good WR in every draft now. Same with some OL. TE, only this draft and last season's draft have the number of top prospects. Call it a by-product of Covid. But TE are hard to develop and were never all that common, even when many college teams played pro-style offenses. Today, with everyone playing spread, it has been a lot less likely lately. The draft is about adding good players who build our team. We have to get a good TE(s) at some point.